snowboard community forums : Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ : Are there any new Christian movies...

Fri, 14 Jun 2013 22:27:15 +0000

Author: magichc
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/14/2013 at 10:27pm

Are there any new Christian movies out right now?

Jesus Christ : Here's a link to a lecture...

Sat, 01 Jun 2013 07:38:04 +0000

Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/01/2013 at 7:38am

Here's a link to a lecture John Lennox gave on the subject "Is God Relevant?". Some might find it helpful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uFyubUd464

God bless.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 haha...

Sat, 25 May 2013 11:41:22 +0000

Author: magichc
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/25/2013 at 11:41am

Originally posted by robnezz23

haha found this this morning. All in good fun.

Stuff Christians Say:

http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=0JM1EFNU

it doesn't work anymore, is there another link to the same video?

Jesus Christ : I think the devil has taken over...

Fri, 24 May 2013 20:50:01 +0000

Author: ctoma
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/24/2013 at 8:50pm

I think the devil has taken over your soul and is typing your message in devil-code.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Hey...

Fri, 24 May 2013 19:17:20 +0000

Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/24/2013 at 7:17pm

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Jesus Christ : Hey dudes, slidur here. just...

Fri, 24 May 2013 19:13:17 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/24/2013 at 7:13pm

Hey dudes, slidur here. just got back from a week long trip called 'Focus'. God really spoke to me, and I had a great time. lots of fun sports, good food, time in the word, and amazing knowledge and wisdom soaked up. hope all is well!
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Jesus Christ : i meant, I believe eternity really...

Tue, 02 Apr 2013 11:05:18 +0000
Author: MadAnthony81
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/02/2013 at 11:05am

i meant, I believe eternity really is, forever.

Thanks shred dog.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by MadAnthony81Hello....

Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:38:39 +0000
Author: shreddog_123
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/02/2013 at 10:38am

Originally posted by MadAnthony81

Hello. I have a regret and apology. IT is this. That I took on a non truthful attitude and heart in believing that the way the Bible explains eternal, is short of forever before and after. I now realize that eternity really is that indeed. Or something similar. Also if i am the Great Punisher as I claimed ( when i was OUT OF MY MIND yes.) then I have wrongly punished and will be punished justly myself. These things happen over a course of time and justice is not just served "in the moment". FOr example repercussions and results of weight lifting dont happen immediatly. tleast, not all of the repercussions and results.

Thirdly I have a postive message which has helped me much. I use my heart to love now. Firstly God, secondly humanity and all of the angels and former ones.

I now realize how important a graceful attitude is. (that is to live according to faith and not by trying to do things to earn righteousness. The bible says you cannot please God without faith. Hallelujah it rings true in my life, Praise the Lord for loving solutions that work!

Heart and faith and love. The bible says that faith itself is justified by "the law". (that is the ten commandments and such). Praise the Lord for order and justice! Thank you for grace and mercy!

Hey man, just wanted to let you know that you are loved honestly. I think it's awesome that you have found interest in God and have had a life adjustment. I'm praying for you man. Keep reading scripture and honestly read it openly without trying to find things wrong with it. I can't force you to accept that there is a God and that he is forgiveness and love but i can tell you from first hand experience that it is true. I'm pretty sure a lot more people on here can attest to that as well. Keep it real brutha. God Bless.

Jesus Christ : Hello. I have a regret and apology....

Tue, 02 Apr 2013 10:00:44 +0000
Author: MadAnthony81
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/02/2013 at 10:00am

Hello. I have a regret and apology. IT is this. That I took on a non truthful attitude and heart in believing that the way the Bible explains eternal, is short of forever before and after. I now realize that eternity really is that indeed. Or something similar. Also if i am the Great Punisher as I claimed ( when i was OUT OF MY MIND yes.) then I have wrongly punished and will be punished justly myself. These things happen over a course of time and justice is not just served "in the moment". FOr example repercussions and results of weight lifting dont happen immediatly. tleast, not all of the repercussions and results.

Thirdly I have a postive message which has helped me much. I use my heart to love now. Firstly God, secondly humanity and all of the angels and former ones.

I now realize how important a graceful attitude is. (that is to live according to faith and not by trying to do things to earn righteousness. The bible says you cannot please God without faith. Hallelujah it rings true in my life, Praise the Lord for loving solutions that work!

Heart and faith and love. The bible says that faith itself is justified by "the law". (that is the ten commandments and such). Praise the Lord for order and justice! Thank you for grace and mercy!

Jesus Christ : Indeed! Hope you all had a great...

Mon, 01 Apr 2013 15:39:21 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/01/2013 at 3:39pm

Indeed! Hope you all had a great Easter celebrating the resurrection!

Jesus Christ : God bless everyone tomorrow. Christ...

Sat, 30 Mar 2013 20:35:57 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/30/2013 at 8:35pm

God bless everyone tomorrow. Christ is risen. He is risen indeed!

Jesus Christ : Well, what i had to say could...

Thu, 07 Feb 2013 21:21:41 +0000
Author: MadAnthony81
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/07/2013 at 9:21pm

Well, what i had to say could be tied in to the book of Love. Its speaks justice and honor to the righteous. To some it may seem as words that ramble, but I thought anybody who had knowledge of life and of truth and lies could tie them together as I did. Could you really not make sense of anything? Yet the BIble can be perplexing at times too. I guess I assume the reader can decipher the Bible on their own or perhaps with the help of the Holy Spirit ofcourse.

Perhaps you interpreted my statement asking something like this "what are your so vindicated beliefs in life?" to be negative. To me it was taking interst in what you valued as to say the effort that you may have put in to believing whatever it is that you believe could be valid and valuable and even tie into Christianity which speaks a message of faith hope and love.

All in all I do have something to say and i don't believe being on the defensive is a sin or is even wrong. Saying that I now realize I surely didn't answer as well as Christ the Lord and Savior did in the Bible. Perhaps I din't want to be seen as a Bible basher right away.

A positive message.
The righteous in God's eyes shall be blessed forever.
The truth seeker shall find Jesus if he knocks long enough just as the woman in the Bible pled at the judges door and was ebentually helped.
Love conquers all.
Hate for love destroys the hater.
The simple are foolish. Might sound negative but atleast we can go to a postive point from their that the wise are righteous and blessed.
God chose to visit us in person and make himself known although he was persecuted for being loving and forgiving. Also for being defensive and pointing out flaws. Big deal?
Something cool, Jesus has a whole huge Bible written about him and many he loves.
The best selling book of all time explains how Christ is love and was murdered for our sake.

Ill let this go with one question.

Is it negative to say to "take up your cross daily and follow Jesus Christ."?

I agree lets encourage this. Jesus changed the world through being the model example.

Jesus Christ : ^ Thanks, nfinit, I thought I...

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 07:24:55 +0000
Author: sideways99
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 7:24am

^ Thanks, nfinit, I thought I was the only one who couldn't make sense of MadAnth's post...

Jesus Christ : MadAnothony - honestly, from your...

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 07:07:08 +0000
Author: )(nfinit)(
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 7:07am

MadAnothony - honestly, from your rambling, I would have assumed you were on drugs or drunk. It is an assumption...

Here is my attempt to put this thread a little back on a track I can follow better (yeah I am being selfish)

God has done a lot for me in my life and I am grateful. I have been blessed and I owe Him everything.

If you choose, let us know something positive.

Jesus Christ : From what we can #nderstan@d ab0!!Tnwhat...

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 05:58:00 +0000
Author: MadAnthony81
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 5:58am

From what we can #nderstan@d ab0!!Tnwhat these atheists think theyre doing to us in their heads is well uh........
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;;;;;f'un'n'ny

Jesus Christ : I'll tell of a lil short...

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:50:59 +0000
Author: MadAnthony81
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/04/2013 at 8:50pm

I'll tell of a lil short story that goes something like this.

There was a boy named.... Leroy. Leroy "da boy", went up to Jesus and said, "You know Jesus your're not my brother to me, you're my big brother".

Then Leroy laid down next to Jesus, put his own haed on Jesus Christ's stomach and started to sing. Leroy sung, " I can hear your heaaaarrt beat".

Jesus replied " No bro, thaat was a mussel i ate"

Story courtesy of the Holy.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 15:47:00 +0000
Author: MadAnthony81
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/04/2013 at 3:47pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by ctoma

My advice, get a college degree and a real job (you're 21, you could have completed a Bachelor's degree at age 22 if you started right out of high school). Or learn a skilled trade. Or join the Marines as God has been telling you to do. Preying on your family and friends to buy Metamucil is a crappy way to make money.

seriously, go join the marines. we could use more christians in the army.
Definitely, I am looking forward to joining the Marines and the changing of my dull civilian life. However, until then I will work this Melaleuca business, because this is the opportunity that God has put in front of me for the time being.
Ctoma - Thanks to the advice from you and everybody else telling me things, I will be working with my dad next week, earning $320 a week. construction.
College isn't my strong point. school has always been a struggle for me; C's and D's have been the norm all throughout highschool and part of (community xD) college. don't get me wrong, I have tried VERY hard, but when one has A.D.D.(no, that's not an excuse) it is even harder, plus I was attending a private school. VERY difficult. lots of homework. didn't work with my learning disability at all.
besides, a lot of my friends(and a lot of other people out there) went through college just to realize that their job was taken by the multitude of people all applying for the same job.
College isn't for everybody. I'm sure you've heard that. I really don't think I can force myself through MORE school. However, I do realize the importance of learning how to learn. That is why I will probably go back to school when I join the Marines.
As far as 'preying on my family and friends'. that just isn't true. it would be with an MLM company, but not with Melaleuca. sorry, had to correct the blunder in your last line Ctoma. other than that, I see and accept your concern for my well-being.

Right on Snowboard slidur. I must comment and honor you in your steadfastness to gentleness and love rather than succumbing to being pollueted by the world as I and the atheists have with harsh wordss and hate. Sometimes what we have to say in petty short and cruel.

Hey snowboardslidur. Your going into the Marines? I had an uncle in the Marines. From what I hear to be in the MArines from my dad you have to be one tough cookie! Hey love don't hurt either huh!? I play battlefield 3 premium on my pc. If youre interested let me know. Its a sophistciated game in the respect that it has skype and all kinds of weapons but unfortunately it has built in cussing/ swear words. It is a pollutent but I recently told Christ i would turn the volume down. From what I can tell my strategy has improved and knowledge of weapons also. We play in places like Talah market, Bandar desert, subway stations jungle and marine docking stations. There are stanks airplanes helis and more. I even saw a person driving a forklift. If you have a computer that can handle its 2.4 ghz needs and such i will buy the game for you or even give you 200 dollars towards whatever you may need whether it be the game or not. LEmme know Im here for you.

Your brother in Christ,

much love, Ol-st_Ant

Jesus Christ : I'll even say this, and...

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 14:38:28 +0000
Author: MadAnthony81
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/04/2013 at 2:38pm

I'll even say this, and hey I may sound like other people elsewhere. I am in a stupor of hateful ignorant vile of self-proclaimed obligation and only Christ Jesus, the best selling author of all time can save me. Not only is he the best selling Author of all time, but after that he was a Jewish Carpentar. But before and after that he was a lowly shepard. My goal in my hopes to be one day with his help is to help him be a good shepard valued on HIGH.

P.S.

Im imperfect, it's like- "im eons away from perfection, stuck without a time machine, and im stuck in time".

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by )(nfinit)(you...

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 14:08:05 +0000
Author: MadAnthony81
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/04/2013 at 2:08pm

Originally posted by )(nfinit)(

you state specifically in your post that "between me and you, i'm much more interliegent than you" now maybe it was a typo. I'll give you that.

No need to point out everyone's mistakes, when we all make them. Be proud of your beliefs and spread the Word as you need, but the defensive stance never seems to work to the benefit most hope.

PS making assumptions about what people are saying also may get a less than desirable outcome.

I concur hahha. Almost fully. Accept that I belief eventually by the means of human all mistakes shall be pointed for the means of proving perfection itself. With my convictions I will testify according to my desire in truth and love that the perfect man who will point out everythings flaws will be the man in which so few claim to be perfect and yet still have a love hate relationship with. "All fall short of the glory of God". Seems like an honest maxim. Procurably ,"(and this word came form Jesus)", I can testify that most people fall short in many areas but have something to gain from soemone.

Jesus Christ : you state specifically in your...

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 13:54:22 +0000
Author: )(nfinit)(
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/04/2013 at 1:54pm

you state specifically in your post that "between me and you, i'm much more interliegent than you" now maybe it was a typo. I'll give you that.

No need to point out everyone's mistakes, when we all make them. Be proud of your beliefs and spread the Word as you need, but the defensive stance never seems to work to the benefit most hope.

PS making assumptions about what people are saying also may get a less than desirable outcome.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by M...

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 13:40:08 +0000
Author: MadAnthony81
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/04/2013 at 1:40pm

Originally posted by MadAnthony81

Originally posted by MATTSTERBATOR

Believe what you like.

And what are your so greatly vindicated beliefs as to why you would hurt yourself to in your own mind justly hate and hurt someone.

Between me and you, i'm much more interliegent than you and I do expect people to thoroughly examine the depths of every statement they make according to the Bible in which so many people claim a real valid relationship with real valid transformation o n a personal level between themselves and Christ who being in his very nature took up the responsiblilty to be a servant of the most High God. In this case which you can speak and you can cuncoct ideas being of the nature to serve yourself you can only merely assume where you come from and cannot directly resemble pure truth from any source you gain information from for your so called liberatimg knowlegde that in this case I can only assume is which you place your trust hope and mere idea of a deity in. Or in other words you think you are the greatest being and you are the closest thing to God.

SO to furthmore extinuguish any foolish argurmnt you ight have you should automatically assume since I therefore statet that the Bible shall liberate you with it's knowledge if you allow it ofcourse. But, if you think knowledge is power then something powerful formed this universe with all its knowledge and complexity. Obviously a God or Gods of superior knowledge in someothing that we can aclaim as Christians and coherent truth.

Rather compare your statement in the black box to what Christianity really is and you know you can and have to deny, maybe even on a continual basis in times where people aren't trying to persuade you of their fantastic Lord and Savior. "

There are many things not to believe in in this world but if there are one group of people who are convicted of the truth and have been persecuted because of it it is the Godly and the Christians." "If love is a crime then hate the lover"

"If according to a person absolute truth does not exist, then, they belief that no truth can consequesntly rule out another truth. Therefore an Almighty God can hencfore exist not being obligated to or by any other truth. That is, if absolute truth does not exist, but ofcourse when we say we believe something we don't expect to turn away and have it remain as the same truth, unless it is that there is no God. And that is for reasons stated in the Bible wich may or may not be absolute truth according to you. Essitially is there is no absolut truth then everything is a lie. If everything is a lie then you are fighting for lies. If you atre fighting for lies you are fighting for flies. Lord of the flies, beelzubub. make sense of it it could be abolute lies which could therefore be absolut truth in its oppostion. But since we live, (most of us) in some coherent reality which is known as absolut truth itslef since it is consistant as far as we can tell and have ever known, (that being scientific in itself), the reality existing by the means OF absolute truth substantiates itself scientifically to most people without even arguing.

I didn't say I was more interligent that anyone on this post. First OBVIOUS MISTAKE on YOUR PART. Secondly it might be for all you know including the so called mistakes I might have made on accident or on purpose in order to prove a point. Thirdly smart and inteligent are not synanomous with eachother. I'm not a very learned man, most of my life has had some form of extreme defiance towards Jesus Christ who is truth resulting in a stupor of stupidity as far as I can tell similar to yours which results in me automatically going to that I think I'm better than people as long as I can come up with a few reasons, to say the least.

But in fact, you so called Atheists , instead of having some wonderful knowledge to lovingly share to benefit society all you seem to ever muster up, AND CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG, is that you think Jesus's beliefs are flawed.

A persons actions result from their beliefs. A maxim yes. Proven with wisdom, yes. The reason you are trying to discredit me is for my love for Jesus.

Jesus Christ : I am a Christian and also a flawed...

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 13:08:44 +0000
Author: )(nfinit)(
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/04/2013 at 1:08pm

I am a Christian and also a flawed individual. With that said, I have a quote I like to use in certain circumstances such as this...

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by MadAn...

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 12:43:11 +0000
Author: panther
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/04/2013 at 12:43pm

Originally posted by MadAnthony81

Originally posted by MATTSTERBATOR

Believe what you like.

And what are your so greatly vindicated beliefs as to why you would hurt yourself to in your own mind justly hate and hurt someone.

Between me and you, i'm much more interliegent than you and I do expect people to thoroughly examine the depths of every statement they make according to the Bible in which so many people claim a real valid relationship with real valid transformation o n a personal level between themselves and Christ who being in his very nature took up the responsiblilty to be a servant of the most High God. In this case which you can speak and you can cuncoct ideas being of the nature to serve yourself you can only merely assume where you come from and cannot directly resemble pure truth from any source you gain information from for your so called liberatimg knowlegde that in this case I can only assume is which you place your trust hope and mere idea of a deity in. Or in other words you think you are the greatest being and you are the closest thing to God.

SO to furthmore extinuguish any foolish argurmnt you ight have you should automatically assume since I therefore statet that the Bible shall liberate you with it's knowledge if you allow it ofcourse. But, if you think knowledge is power then something powerful formed this universe with all its knowledge and complexity. Obviously a God or Gods of superior knowledge in someothing that we can aclaim as Christians and coherent truth.

Rather compare your statement in the black box to what Christianity really is and you know you can and have to deny, maybe even on a continual basis in times where people aren't trying to persuade you of their fantastic Lord and Savior. "

There are many things not to believe in in this world but if there are one group of people who are convicted of the truth and have been persecuted because of it it is the Godly and the Christians." "If love is a crime then hate the lover"

"If according to a person absolute truth does not exist, then, they belief that no truth can consequesntly rule out another truth. Therefore an Almighty God can hencfore exist not being obligated to or by any other truth. That is, if absolute truth does not exist, but ofcourse when we say we believe something we don't expect to turn away and have it remain as the same truth, unless it is that there is no God. And that is for reasons stated in the Bible wich may or may not be absolute truth according to you. Essitially is there is no absolut truth then everything is a lie. If everything is a lie then you are fighting for lies. If you atre fighting for lies you are fighting for flies. Lord of the flies, beelzubub. make sense of it it could be abolute lies which could therefore be absolut truth in its oppostion. But since we live, (most of us) in some coherent reality which is known as absolut truth itslef since it is consistant as far as we can tell and have ever known, (that being scientific in itself), the reality existing by the means OF absolute truth substantiates itself scientifically to most people without even arguing.

Are you sure you want to state that you're more intelligent than anyone else on this board before posting this response? The obvious spelling errors only underscore the incoherence of what you wrote.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted...

Sun, 03 Feb 2013 23:39:42 +0000
Author: MadAnthony81
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/03/2013 at 11:39pm

Originally posted by MATTSTERBATOR

Believe what you like.

And what are your so greatly vindicated beliefs as to why you would hurt yourself to in your own mind justly hate and hurt someone.

Between me and you, i'm much more interliegent than you and I do expect people to thoroughly examine the depths of every statement they make according to the Bible in which so many people claim a real valid relationship with real valid transformation o n a personal level between themselves and Christ who being in his very nature took up the responsiblilty to be a servant of the most High God. In this case which you can speak and you can cuncoct ideas being of the nature to serve yourself you can only merely assume where you come from and cannot directly resemble pure truth from any source you gain information from for your so called liberatimg knowlegde that in this case I can only assume is which you place your trust hope and mere idea of a deity in. Or in other words you think you are the greatest being and you are the closest thing to God.

SO to furthmore extinuguish any foolish argurmnt you ight have you should automatically assume since I therefore statet that the Bible shall liberate you with it's knowledge if you allow it ofcourse. But, if you think knowledge is power then something powerful formed this universe with all its knowledge and complexity. Obviously a God or Gods of superior knowledge in someothing that we can aclaim as Christians and coherent truth.

Rather compare your statement in the black box to what Christianity really is and you know you can and have to deny, maybe even on a continual basis in times where people aren't trying to persuade you of their fantastic Lord and Savior. "

There are many things not to believe in in this world but if there are one group of people who are convicted of the truth and have been persecuted because of it it is the Godly and the Christians." "If love is a crime then hate the lover"

"If according to a person absolute truth does not exist, then, they belief that no truth can consequesntly rule out another truth. Therefore an Almighty God can hencfore exist not being obligated to or by any other truth. That is, if absolute truth does not exist, but ofcourse when we say we believe something we don't expect to turn away and have it remain as the same truth, unless it is that there is no God. And that is for reasons stated in the Bible wich may or may not be absolute truth according to you. Essitially is there is no absolut truth then everything is a lie. If everything is a lie then you are fighting for lies. If you atre fighting for lies you are fighting for flies. Lord of the flies, beelzubub. make sense of it it could be abolute lies which could therefore be absolut truth in its oppostion. But since we live, (most of us) in some coherent reality which is known as absolut truth itslef since it is consistant as far as we can tell and have ever known, (that being scientific in itself), the reality existing by the means OF absolute truth substantiates itself scientifically to most people without even arguing.

Jesus Christ : I got a joke. Bear with me. When...

Sun, 03 Feb 2013 22:40:16 +0000
Author: MadAnthony81
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/03/2013 at 10:40pm

I got a joke. Bear with me. When asked about how to use " a victim" in a sentence Leroy the Christian said.

" I go to to the Christian thread at TruSnow and there some people that hate with out truth seeking according to the knowledge given to me by God the Holy Spirit. Then the Holy Spirit said can you "a victim" from the thread!?

wahahaha

Jesus Christ : Wowthat'sa pretty interesting...

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 23:30:41 +0000
Author: shreddog_123
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/25/2013 at 11:30pm

Wow that's a pretty interesting piece of info. I didn't know about that at all.

Jesus Christ : Happy Birthday to Jesus Christ...

Mon, 07 Jan 2013 17:32:23 +0000
Author: milutinho
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/07/2013 at 5:32pm

Happy Birthday to Jesus Christ according to the Julian Calendar the calendar every Christian followed and celebrated for the first 1500 years of Christianity.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by shreddog_123 Originally...

Mon, 07 Jan 2013 15:18:29 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/07/2013 at 3:18pm

Originally posted by shreddog_123

Originally posted by humblerooster

Why would you post on this thread just to be disrespectful? @GeckosGoMoo

@ABrad25 I visited a church for Christmas and we had a candle lit service. It was my first one and I really enjoyed the experience.

That's what I was thinking. That's awesome about the service. this was the first year in five years that I wasn't Joseph for my churches Live nativity service. lol

I used to be in plays back in the day. I was one on the inn keepers.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by humbleroosterWhy...

Sat, 05 Jan 2013 01:54:42 +0000
Author: shreddog_123
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/05/2013 at 1:54am

Originally posted by humblerooster

Why would you post on this thread just to be disrespectful? @GeckosGoMoo

@ABrad25 I visited a church for Christmas and we had a candle lit service. It was my first one and I really enjoyed the experience.

That's what I was thinking. That's awesome about the service. this was the first year in five years that I wasn't Joseph for my churches Live nativity service. lol

Jesus Christ : Why would you post on this thread...

Sat, 05 Jan 2013 01:44:02 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/05/2013 at 1:44am

Why would you post on this thread just to be disrespectful? @GeckosGoMoo

@ABrad25 I visited a church for Christmas and we had a candle lit service. It was my first one and I really enjoyed the experience.

Jesus Christ : Sounds more like you were high......

Sat, 05 Jan 2013 01:38:23 +0000
Author: shreddog_123
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/05/2013 at 1:38am

Sounds more like you were high...

Jesus Christ : Jesus visited me in a dream last...

Fri, 04 Jan 2013 05:06:05 +0000
Author: GeckosGoMoo
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/04/2013 at 5:06am

Jesus visited me in a dream last night. I asked him why is it geckos go moo. He told me that I am destined for glory through HIM, and that hearing geckos moo is a special power and that with this great power comes great responsibility. Praise the LORD.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by ABrad25They...

Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:30:40 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/03/2013 at 8:30pm

Originally posted by ABrad25

They wouldn't allow us to have the candles during christmas service this year because they didn't to almost burn down the church again. Sad day
oh no! did your church burn down the last time you were allowed to use candles?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by MATTSTERBATOR Believe...

Thu, 03 Jan 2013 20:28:40 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/03/2013 at 8:28pm

Originally posted by MATTSTERBATOR

Believe what you like.
that does make sense.
well, it takes more faith to believe Evolution over that!

Jesus Christ : They wouldn't allow us to...

Wed, 26 Dec 2012 06:29:04 +0000
Author: ABrad25
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/26/2012 at 6:29am

They wouldn't allow us to have the candles during christmas service this year because they didn't to almost burn down the church again. Sad day

Jesus Christ : Believe what you like.

Wed, 26 Dec 2012 01:48:36 +0000
Author: MATTSTERBATOR
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/26/2012 at 1:48am

Believe what you like.

Jesus Christ : Merry Christmas and God bless...

Tue, 25 Dec 2012 08:16:37 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/25/2012 at 8:16am

Merry Christmas and God bless everyone!

To Slider: Psalm 46, especially the first part of verse 10: "Be still, and know that I am God:..." This is important for getting the answers to the questions you have.

Jesus Christ : to the Christians reading this:...

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 21:08:17 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/13/2012 at 9:08pm

to the Christians reading this: please pray for me, I'm seeking God's will and favor.
It's hard for me to trust that God has everything under control, when I make plans, only for them to fail. I need direction, and for God to move mightily! thanks for your prayers.

Jesus Christ : Today in church I was challenged...

Sun, 02 Dec 2012 18:22:39 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/02/2012 at 6:22pm

Today in church I was challenged to put God first in my business, saying, 'I will do ---, if it's God's will'. I plan to live that out this month, and I expect God to help me get to Director III this month, and Senior Director by May! "Nothing is impossible with God!!"

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Tue, 27 Nov 2012 07:35:13 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Nov/27/2012 at 7:35am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by snowboardslider

This is my freestyle reply to an Atheist who did try, but was unable to stop this fly white guy:

whoa, harsh words, but hey, I understand. a blow so absurd, that it almost

deserves reprimand. Can't lie, I don't know why you hate. but wait, I ain't come

on this page to challenge you like a stage, don't blow up in rage and quit, this

rap is legit. before I go, there's something you should know. I pray for God to

change the condition of your soul; with which His aim is to rendition and console.

I care as to where you spend eternity. It's sad how some people blatantly ignore

Christ, not realizing that when they die it's too late to decide in whom you will co-

inside. I have to drop my pride all the time, like 'get out of my way'. there's a

rapper that I listen to, his name is 'Lecrae'. His music is good, I use it, you

should, to strengthen my faith.

The Bible says to 'pray for our enemies', though I count you as my friend. I pray

that some day will meet in the end. I'll be prayin for you, so you can find what

is true, noble and right. but for now, that's all I will write. the name is Chris

White, keepin it tight, without a fright of flight or fight... alright, have a good

night.
What was it you were responding to?
an atheist on the FB page: Black Atheist.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardsliderThis...

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 23:05:11 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Nov/23/2012 at 11:05pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

This is my freestyle reply to an Atheist who did try, but was unable to stop this fly white guy:

whoa, harsh words, but hey, I understand. a blow so absurd, that it almost

deserves reprimand. Can't lie, I don't know why you hate. but wait, I ain't come

on this page to challenge you like a stage, don't blow up in rage and quit, this

rap is legit. before I go, there's something you should know. I pray for God to

change the condition of your soul; with which His aim is to rendition and console.

I care as to where you spend eternity. It's sad how some people blatantly ignore

Christ, not realizing that when they die it's too late to decide in whom you will co-

inside. I have to drop my pride all the time, like 'get out of my way'. there's a

rapper that I listen to, his name is 'Lecrae'. His music is good, I use it, you

should, to strengthen my faith.

The Bible says to 'pray for our enemies', though I count you as my friend. I pray

that some day will meet in the end. I'll be prayin for you, so you can find what

is true, noble and right. but for now, that's all I will write. the name is Chris

White, keepin it tight, without a fright of flight or fight... alright, have a good

night.
What was it you were responding to?

Jesus Christ : Happy Thanksgiving, everyone,...

Thu, 22 Nov 2012 09:38:08 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Nov/22/2012 at 9:38am

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone, and God bless.

Jesus Christ : This is my freestyle reply to...

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 21:13:46 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Nov/18/2012 at 9:13pm

This is my freestyle reply to an Atheist who did try, but was unable to stop this fly white guy:

whoa, harsh words, but hey, I understand. a blow so absurd, that it almost

deserves reprimand. Can't lie, I don't know why you hate. but wait, I ain't come

on this page to challenge you like a stage, don't blow up in rage and quit, this

rap is legit. before I go, there's something you should know. I pray for God to

change the condition of your soul; with which His aim is to rendition and console.

I care as to where you spend eternity. It's sad how some people blatantly ignore

Christ, not realizing that when they die it's too late to decide in whom you will co-

inside. I have to drop my pride all the time, like 'get out of my way'. there's a

rapper that I listen to, his name is 'Lecrae'. His music is good, I use it, you

should, to strengthen my faith.

The Bible says to 'pray for our enemies', though I count you as my friend. I pray

that some day will meet in the end. I'll be prayin for you, so you can find what

is true, noble and right. but for now, that's all I will write. the name is Chris

White, keepin it tight, without a fright of flight or fight... alright, have a good

night.

Jesus Christ : I thought this was an interesting...

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 20:00:14 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Nov/13/2012 at 8:00pm

I thought this was an interesting story:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ups-yanks-boy-scout-support-anti-gay-policies-article-1.1201171

God bless everyone.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Tue, 06 Nov 2012 18:18:06 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Nov/06/2012 at 6:18pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by robnezz23

haha found this this morning. All in good fun.

Stuff Christians Say:
http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=0JM1EFNU

soooo true! I've probably said about half of those 'christianese' phrases myself! :)

Yeah, I'm guilty too. "Awesome fellowship last night" haha
I'm sure Christians don't strive to be cheezy. Anything that starts as genuine can go viral. I've said what you said as well, and meant it. but, I have also just said a comment like that without meaning it...good thing God looks at the heart, right?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Sat, 03 Nov 2012 10:53:12 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Nov/03/2012 at 10:53am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by robnezz23

haha found this this morning. All in good fun.

Stuff Christians Say:
http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=0JM1EFNU

soooo true! I've probably said about half of those 'christianese' phrases myself! :)

Yeah, I'm guilty too. "Awesome fellowship last night" haha

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Though...

Fri, 02 Nov 2012 08:51:33 +0000
Author: JDiggidy
Subject: 39508
Posted: Nov/02/2012 at 8:51am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Though not historically accurate,

Wouldn't a guy name Mohamad Al'Shirif have more historical accuracy? I mean, Jesus did kinda live in what we call the Middle East.

Seriously though, 2000 years ago, was there diversity in that area? We know the Romans (pre-dating Jesus) had gone all over the known world by that time.

Not saying that the guy from Person of Interest was "accurate" either!

Jesus Christ : Wouldn't this be something,...

Fri, 02 Nov 2012 08:23:13 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Nov/02/2012 at 8:23am

Wouldn't this be something, Denzel as Jesus. Seems to be what the public currently wants!
Though not historically accurate, I think it would be cool and bring alot of attention to Jesus and get people talking.

http://thegrio.com/2012/10/31/poll-denzel-washington-leads-list-of-actors-fan-want-to-play-jesus-christ/

Also, in the same article, apparently Russell Crowe is playing Noah in a movie that comes out in 2014.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 haha...

Thu, 01 Nov 2012 17:29:11 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Nov/01/2012 at 5:29pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

haha found this this morning. All in good fun.

Stuff Christians Say:
http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=0JM1EFNU

soooo true! I've probably said about half of those 'christianese' phrases myself! :)

Jesus Christ : haha found this this morning....

Thu, 01 Nov 2012 09:01:14 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Nov/01/2012 at 9:01am

haha found this this morning. All in good fun.

Stuff Christians Say:
http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=0JM1EFNU

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by chillwill Im...

Thu, 11 Oct 2012 11:54:07 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/11/2012 at 11:54am

Originally posted by chillwill

Im not sure what is going on in this thread... But I would like to say.....Jesus has been the only one to help me.

I have been through everything and the only help I have ever gotten has came from Jesus .

Jesus is not a silver bullet, but he will help you when you are desperate.
word. you'll realize that Jesus is all you need when He is all you have.

Jesus Christ : Im not sure what is going...

Sun, 07 Oct 2012 04:16:33 +0000
Author: chillwill
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/07/2012 at 4:16am

Im not sure what is going on in this thread... But I would like to say.....Jesus has been the only one to help me.

I have been through everything and the only help I have ever gotten has came from Jesus .

Jesus is not a silver bullet, but he will help you when you are desperate.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 06:57:48 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/03/2012 at 6:57am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by ctoma

My advice, get a college degree and a real job (you're 21, you could have completed a Bachelor's degree at age 22 if you started right out of high school). Or learn a skilled trade. Or join the Marines as God has been telling you to do. Preying on your family and friends to buy Metamucil is a crappy way to make money.

seriously, go join the marines. we could use more christians in the army.
Definitely, I am looking forward to joining the Marines and the changing of my dull civilian life. However, until then I will work this Melaleuca business, because this is the opportunity that God has put in front of me for the time being.
Ctoma - Thanks to the advice from you and everybody else telling me things, I will be working with my dad next week, earning $320 a week. construction.
College isn't my strong point. school has always been a struggle for me; C's and D's have been the norm all throughout highschool and part of (community xD) college. don't get me wrong, I have tried VERY hard, but when one has A.D.D.(no, that's not an excuse) it is even harder, plus I was attending a private school. VERY difficult. lots of homework. didn't work with my learning disability at all.
besides, a lot of my friends(and a lot of other people out there) went through college just to realize that their job was taken by the multitude of people all applying for the same job.
College isn't for everybody. I'm sure you've heard that. I really don't think I can force myself through MORE school. However, I do realize the importance of learning how to learn. That is why I will probably go back to school when I join the Marines.
As far as 'preying on my family and friends'. that just isn't true. it would be with an MLM company, but not with Melaleuca. sorry, had to correct the blunder in your last line Ctoma. other than that, I see and accept your concern for my well-being.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by ctoma My...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:47:23 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/02/2012 at 7:47am

Originally posted by ctoma

My advice, get a college degree and a real job (you're 21, you could have completed a Bachelor's degree at age 22 if you started right out of high school). Or learn a skilled trade. Or join the Marines as God has been telling you to do. Preying on your family and friends to buy Metamucil is a crappy way to make money.

seriously, go join the marines. we could use more christians in the army.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:45:06 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/02/2012 at 7:45am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Sorry, I'm not in the business of de-brainwashing. You are too far gone.

I can only hope you see the light sooner rather than later and don't condemn too many of your family and friends to this scam.

The sad part is, you don't even know you are scamming your friends and family. You honestly think this is good for them.
Such a drama queen. Whatever happened to "make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do"?
Sgreen, I feel our friend couldn't handle the truth. I was glad that he actually researched into my company instead of just spamming me with false information(like everybody loves to do). however, he gave up. because the deeper you dig into the truth, the more likely you will 'want in'. Same goes for reading the Bible. Atheists have read the Bible to 'prove it wrong', but ended up seeing the truth and accepting Christ into their life.

Weak minds think alike. No question.
Just as you are blinded by religion, you are blinded by this scam.
And I'm sure christians have never left the faith either.

I'm still waiting for you to stop spamming false information and research your company.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardsliderI'm...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:38:57 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/02/2012 at 7:38am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

I'm sorry you feel that way, but you couldn't be more wrong. (yeah, I know you were expecting yet another brainwashed reply, well, you got 1)
This company is different from other companies because we have CHANGED THE GAME in many ways, saving people money on products they already buy, while keeping their home safe, and themselves healthy. I challenge you to actually look up our company, before lumping Melaleuca in with MLM companies who tried but failed.(hence people don't stay)
Please hear me out, (it's the least I would do for you, even if I felt you were wrong too).
My parents tried Amway a few years ago, along with my Aunt and Uncle(who went all out). Both families were forced to buy 100 points ($200) of products that were ok...but not really worth the EXTRA money. standard products at higher prices. Melaleuca has 'changed the game in this aspect due to only mandating a 35 point order, costing $50-70 on better, consumable products that people need on a daily basis.
WHAT IS TRUTH? or is it all subjective? I can tell you what I believe, and you can tell me I'm a fool, and what you believe... but what is the real deal? find out for yourself. don't be that person who throws uneducated/un-researched information at me. I am searching for truth. I don't want to look dumb for saying things that aren't true, like you accused me and my company.

You say Mela is not an MLM. Then you compare it to Amway and the only difference (based on what YOU just said) is the amount of points you have to maintain. You just admitted that Mela is an MLM but an easier to maintain one. That is what you are saying.

Secondly, I can't believe you are saying I've accused you and your company based on uneducated and un-researched information.

I asked you for REAL comparisons between products via unbiased testing, asked you for ACTUAL price comparisons for the products based on volume, asked you for the chemical make up of the products. I've asked you for a REAL breakdown of costs/expenses vs what you make. I got NOTHING from you except more useless propaganda about how great Mela's products are.

I've provided you with links to alternatives such as home made solutions that are all natural and much less expensive. I've attempted to show the prices of competing commercial products and I've asked follow on questions about the size of the bottle, effectiveness, etc. (with no response from you).

I have presented statistics showing who is making money and who isn't. I'm the one that pointed out the minimum mandatory spend. I pointed out the enrollment fee. I pointed out shipping costs. Whereas you come on and make it sound like everyone is gonna make it rich (ie. you'll retire by 30 and laugh at me while making more money than me in a few months than I do in a year).

Who's the one actually searching for truth here? Who's the one throwing around uneducated/un-researched information (eg. less than 0.01% will decide to build their business)?

How can you tell me I've not done my research when I'm the only one putting up facts? I could easily go your route and say my friend joined Mela and he has to give away all the crap he buys from them because he has to maintain 35pts and he doesn't use that much stuff. Or about how he tried to cancel and they simply kept charging him and sending him product he didn't want because they make the cancellation process intentionally obfuscated. Based on this, Mela is a bad company right? Of course not. Similarly they are not a good company just because you give me some story about not having to open windows when you clean.

Here's what you should have provided. I googled price comparison and found Mela's own site comparing products.
http://www.melaleuca.com/ProductStore/Content.aspx?Page=Compare

I looked at the comparisons that were CLEARLY represented by volume and not by dilution.
Gatorade
It says that the competitor price is from Albertsons. I looked at Albertsons. They are selling it for $0.88 per 32 fl. oz. bottle. So 10 of them would be $8.80. Mela's site lists it as $18.90!! Why? Compared to $10.99 for Mela's Sustain energy drink, that is $2.19 MORE. Look at walmart. 8 pack of gatorade (20 fl. oz each) is $4.98. So the equivalent 320 fl. oz is $9.96. This is $1.03 less than Mela's Sustain.

Loreal Shampoo
It says the price is from drugstore.com. $5.99 on drugstore.com (it says it is on sale but honestly, no one pays full retail anyway). Mela lists it for $6.99 (which is what the non-sale price is). Looking at Walmart, this product is $5.67 at regular price. Yeah, this is still more expensive and you get less than Mela's Afinia shampoo. But, why is Mela comparing themselves with Loreal? Again, looking at walmart, a 13oz bottle of sulfate free organic shampoo is only $4.74 compared to Mela's $4.99. This is $0.25 more.

Any example on Mela's site will have an alternative at a cheaper price. Think about it. Walmart is the biggest retailer in the world. Don't you think they will have the best buying power? Don't you think the products at Mela will have a huge markup if they are paying their "distributors" 7% for 7 levels??? Use some reasoning and logic.

Don't accuse me of throwing around uneducated/un-researched information. Look in the mirror.

Jesus Christ : My advice, get a college degree...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 07:09:35 +0000
Author: ctoma
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/02/2012 at 7:09am

My advice, get a college degree and a real job (you're 21, you could have completed a Bachelor's degree at age 22 if you started right out of high school). Or learn a skilled trade. Or join the Marines as God has been telling you to do. Preying on your family and friends to buy Metamucil is a crappy way to make money.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 06:56:20 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/02/2012 at 6:56am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Sorry, I'm not in the business of de-brainwashing. You are too far gone.

I can only hope you see the light sooner rather than later and don't condemn too many of your family and friends to this scam.

The sad part is, you don't even know you are scamming your friends and family. You honestly think this is good for them.
Such a drama queen. Whatever happened to "make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do"?
Sgreen, I feel our friend couldn't handle the truth. I was glad that he actually researched into my company instead of just spamming me with false information(like everybody loves to do). however, he gave up. because the deeper you dig into the truth, the more likely you will 'want in'. Same goes for reading the Bible. Atheists have read the Bible to 'prove it wrong', but ended up seeing the truth and accepting Christ into their life.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5Sorry,...

Mon, 01 Oct 2012 23:05:08 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/01/2012 at 11:05pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Sorry, I'm not in the business of de-brainwashing. You are too far gone.

I can only hope you see the light sooner rather than later and don't condemn too many of your family and friends to this scam.

The sad part is, you don't even know you are scamming your friends and family. You honestly think this is good for them.
Such a drama queen. Whatever happened to "make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do"?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by )(nfinit)(i...

Mon, 01 Oct 2012 19:50:06 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/01/2012 at 7:50pm

Originally posted by )(nfinit)(

i assume you realize that at 1-2hrs per customer, 1 in 100 will actually sign up. That's not a bad percentage, unless you look at the time required and the personal investment. Cold calling, door to door, however you do it. 10% listen, then 10% of that buy in. Or at least that was my experience in sales. Different when you have a brick and mortar store as people are coming in to buy.

So if you look at your numbers, for every 200hrs 1 person will sign up. That's 1600hrs to get to Director. Or 3/4 of a year working 8hr days. Or 31cents an hr.

I am sure you can do better than that, you seem excited about the start of your business. But what people on here are trying to help you with is, don't put all your eggs in one basket, sort of speak. If it's as simple as you say, get a job working 30-40hrs a week, then spend the other 20-30 building up your Melaleuca business until you can afford to quit your current job.

With the above kind of reasoning, no matter how you look at it you will be contributing to society.
Thank you for being honest with me. While I have had better success than what you mentioned above, I'm assuming that was your personal experience in sales. I guess that's how it goes sometimes. However, everybody I have presented Melaleuca to has seen the opportunity and has signed up! ).
However, I was a sales representative for Vector Marketing, selling Cutco knives. I didn't always make a sale. 75% would buy. both companies are the top of the line.

I have just advanced to Director, earning a $500 check from Melaleuca) I have invested 4 casual months. In that time, I have realized that (like you said), I should also pursue a regular job, and contribute to society. I realize now that I can't support myself on my Melaleuca (residual) income (yet).
Melaleuca wisely informs Marketing Executives not to "quite their jobs" until they are making 2-3 times their income. THANK YOU!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Mon, 01 Oct 2012 19:26:52 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/01/2012 at 7:26pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

oh boy. time to correct a few things.
1. How can you say it is an MLM if you have researched it? call it what you want, MELALEUCA IS A CONSUMER DIRECT MARKETING COMPANY. just in case you don't know what that means. It is where the customer buys directly from the manufacturer! Misconception: because we have levels, that automatically makes us an MLM. WRONG! we merely get paid from levels.
2. the whole idea of Melaleuca is to buy the products. If you don't believe in the products, then the money isn't important. many people have said(and I feel this way too), "I would stay in Melaleuca for the products, even if there wasn't a financial benefit" (paraphrased)
Additionally, it isn't an 'expense' to buy these products. see, when people NEED something, they WILL afford it. I wish I could show you in person how Melaleuca has changed the game; the science behind their products, and why 95% of customers reorder. I know people who got burned by Amway. they'll tell you how expensive it was. 100 points=$200. around 30% reordered. OUCH!
3. there are major contradictions in your third 'point?'. yes, I am 21. NO, it does not take 9 years to make $400 a month. once a Marketing Executive reaches Senior Director they will earn $400 from Melaleuca for a car payment, in addition to the money they will be already earning. In order to get to Senior Director, a Marketing Executive will need:
20,000 organizational product points.
400 preferred customers in their entire organization.
20 personal enrollees and 5 personally enrolled Directors.

While this is a significant amount of work, it shouldn't take more than 6 months-1year to achieve.
As far as how much time I've invested:1-2 hours per customer. so say I spent 2 hours per enrolled customer. that's 16 hours to get to Director for that $500 check. that;s $31.25 an hour.
As for the 'mandatory spending' comment, do you brush your teeth, wash, do your laundry and wash your dishes? oh, really? guess what, your the kind of person who has the qualifications for this company!

Sorry, I'm not in the business of de-brainwashing. You are too far gone.

I can only hope you see the light sooner rather than later and don't condemn too many of your family and friends to this scam.

The sad part is, you don't even know you are scamming your friends and family. You honestly think this is good for them.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but you couldn't be more wrong. (yeah, I know you were expecting yet another brainwashed reply, well, you got 1)
This company is different from other companies because we have CHANGED THE GAME in many ways, saving people money on products they already buy, while keeping their home safe, and themselves healthy. I challenge you to actually look up our company, before lumping Melaleuca in with MLM companies who tried but failed.(hence people don't stay)
Please hear me out, (it's the least I would do for you, even if I felt you were wrong too).
My parents tried Amway a few years ago, along with my Aunt and Uncle(who went all out). Both families were forced to buy 100 points ($200) of products that were ok...but not really worth the EXTRA money. standard products at higher prices. Melaleuca has 'changed the game in this aspect due to only mandating a 35 point order, costing $50-70 on better, consumable products that people need on a daily basis.
WHAT IS TRUTH? or is it all subjective? I can tell you what I believe, and you can tell me I'm a fool, and what you believe... but what is the real deal? find out for yourself. don't be that person who throws uneducated/un-researched information at me. I am searching for truth. I don't want to look dumb for saying things that aren't true, like you accused me and my company.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslideroh...

Mon, 01 Oct 2012 11:56:25 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/01/2012 at 11:56am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

oh boy. time to correct a few things.
1. How can you say it is an MLM if you have researched it? call it what you want, MELALEUCA IS A CONSUMER DIRECT MARKETING COMPANY. just in case you don't know what that means. It is where the customer buys directly from the manufacturer! Misconception: because we have levels, that automatically makes us an MLM. WRONG! we merely get paid from levels.
2. the whole idea of Melaleuca is to buy the products. If you don't believe in the products, then the money isn't important. many people have said(and I feel this way too), "I would stay in Melaleuca for the products, even if there wasn't a financial benefit" (paraphrased)
Additionally, it isn't an 'expense' to buy these products. see, when people NEED something, they WILL afford it. I wish I could show you in person how Melaleuca has changed the game; the science behind their products, and why 95% of customers reorder. I know people who got burned by Amway. they'll tell you how expensive it was. 100 points=$200. around 30% reordered. OUCH!
3. there are major contradictions in your third 'point?'. yes, I am 21. NO, it does not take 9 years to make $400 a month. once a Marketing Executive reaches Senior Director they will earn $400 from Melaleuca for a car payment, in addition to the money they will be already earning. In order to get to Senior Director, a Marketing Executive will need:
20,000 organizational product points.
400 preferred customers in their entire organization.
20 personal enrollees and 5 personally enrolled Directors.

While this is a significant amount of work, it shouldn't take more than 6 months-1year to achieve.
As far as how much time I've invested:1-2 hours per customer. so say I spent 2 hours per enrolled customer. that's 16 hours to get to Director for that $500 check. that;s $31.25 an hour.
As for the 'mandatory spending' comment, do you brush your teeth, wash, do your laundry and wash your dishes? oh, really? guess what, your the kind of person who has the qualifications for this company!

Sorry, I'm not in the business of de-brainwashing. You are too far gone.

I can only hope you see the light sooner rather than later and don't condemn too many of your family and friends to this scam.

The sad part is, you don't even know you are scamming your friends and family. You honestly think this is good for them.

Jesus Christ : i assume you realize that at 1-2hrs...

Mon, 01 Oct 2012 09:58:38 +0000
Author: )(nfinit)(
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/01/2012 at 9:58am

i assume you realize that at 1-2hrs per customer, 1 in 100 will actually sign up. That's not a bad percentage, unless you look at the time required and the personal investment. Cold calling, door to door, however you do it. 10% listen, then 10% of that buy in. Or at least that was my experience in sales. Different when you have a brick and mortar store as people are coming in to buy.

So if you look at your numbers, for every 200hrs 1 person will sign up. That's 1600hrs to get to Director. Or 3/4 of a year working 8hr days. Or 31cents an hr.

I am sure you can do better than that, you seem excited about the start of your business. But what people on here are trying to help you with is, don't put all your eggs in one basket, sort of speak. If it's as simple as you say, get a job working 30-40hrs a week, then spend the other 20-30 building up your Melaleuca business until you can afford to quit your current job.

With the above kind of reasoning, no matter how you look at it you will be contributing to society.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Mon, 01 Oct 2012 09:02:00 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/01/2012 at 9:02am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

1. Melaleuca is not an MLM. we are the first Consumer Direct Marketing company.
2. I agree with you, MLM's are evil. making the financial outcome of the few at the top as the goal of every single person joining their company is wrong. I apologize if I have unintentionally painted that picture of Melaleuca.
3. In order to earn big bucks you will need to work hard and consistently, it won't happen overnight. I might retire at 30, but even if I don't I aim to have a car payment of $400 a month to help me get e new car and I know that even if the check from Melaleuca is small right now, it will grow.
4. The goal of this company is not a get rich quick theme. sorry once again if my excitement painted that picture. The emphasis is on the products. My dad and I have noticed a difference by taking the 'Unforgettables' supplements. We have been able to process our severe A.D.D. I know that you might think it's just me wishing the products would work, and, 'oh wow, they do!' no, these products ARE making a difference in mine and my dad's life.
5. I used to get sick from using regular cleaning products to clean my bathroom. I'd have the window and door open too. now I can use our product called Tub n Tile, door and window closed, and because it's chemical free, it doesn't have any negative effects on me.
I know you are probably thinking, "can a 'green' product actually work as well as a chemical laden one?" yes! as a matter of FACT, our cleaner works way better than Tilex in actually removing soap scum build up, mineral deposits and other things, in addition to leaving the bathroom spelling 100% clean(something I didn't notice with using lysol)and 100%chemical free.

1. It is 100% an MLM. All MLMs try to represent themselves as something else. I'll admit their model is slightly less evil since their payout structure is better than most other MLMs. However, less evil is still evil.

2. Making the financial outcome of a few at the top as a goal is exactly what Mela does. Again, GO LOOK AT THE INCOME STATEMENT. From their own income statement...

a. 98.4% of Mela customers/distributors/whatever you call them, makes less than $2054 per year BEFORE their mandatory points spending (which is about $900 per year). This includes everyone up to Director I/II

b. 85.3% of them make less than $2054 per year even if you only consider those who are serious about building a business.

c. 0.5% of them (or 4.5% of the serious business builders) make it to Senior Director and above. This is the level needed to retire since it is average $62k per year (minus expenses).

d. less than 0.011% of them (or less than 0.1% of serious business builders) can be considered "rich"

Isn't it clear that only a FEW people are making money on Mela? Isn't it clear that even of those who are making money, even fewer of them are going to make enough to retire?

3. According to your profile, you are 21. If it takes 9 years to make $400 per month to make enough for payments (not even to buy a new car), you are doing it wrong. Minimum wage in Pennsylvania is $7.25 per hour. If you wanted $400 a month, that is only 55 hours per month or less than 14 hours per week. You can do that today... why wait until you're 30? How many hours do you need to put in to make $400 a month on Mela AFTER your mandatory points spending?

Here's a fun fact, if you worked minimum wage for 1 hour per day for 9 years, you will have made almost $24000. By the time you are 30, you will have made enough money to buy the car in cash. Could you do that with Mela?

FYI. The hall mark brainwashing theme of MLMs is that
a. "they are not like other MLMs"
b. "you have to work hard"
c. "you won't get rich overnight"
d. "you failed because you didn't work hard."

But then they turn around and tell you that you'll retire by 30. How stupid do you have to be to fall for this?

4./5. Back to the products, I still haven't seen a price comparison. You insisted earlier that Mela products were a good deal.

I might ignore the price aspect because some might be willing to pay more if there is a REAL health benefit. But, I want some independent testing showing that the products are actually better.

Hearing how good the products are from the sales guy who makes a commission off the product doesn't really sell it for me. It's a conflict of interest. Regarding cleaners, you do know that there are home made solutions that are probably equally as effective (or close to) as store bought commercial stuff right? IF you had such a bad health problem with those commercial cleaners, why didn't you just research how to clean stuff naturally? It is MUCH cheaper that way too.

I will bet the following will be even healthier than Mela products.
http://www.making-healthy-choices.com/homemade-cleaning-products.html
http://www.making-healthy-choices.com/homemade-cleaning-products.html
http://www.mycleaningproducts.com/blog/house-cleaning-supplies/
http://recentlyawakened.hubpages.com/hub/Top-5-Reasons-To-Use-Homemade-Cleaning-Products

MLMs work because people are gullible. And since MLMs prey on gullible people to make money, they are evil.
oh boy. time to correct a few things.
1. How can you say it is an MLM if you have researched it? call it what you want, MELALEUCA IS A CONSUMER DIRECT MARKETING COMPANY. just in case you don't know what that means. It is where the customer buys directly from the manufacturer! Misconception: because we have levels, that automatically makes us an MLM. WRONG! we merely get paid from levels.
2. the whole idea of Melaleuca is to buy the products. If you don't believe in the products, then the money isn't important. many people have said(and I feel this way too), "I would stay in Melaleuca for the products, even if there wasn't a financial benefit" (paraphrased)
Additionally, it isn't an 'expense' to buy these products. see, when people NEED something, they WILL afford it. I wish I could show you in person how Melaleuca has changed the game; the science behind their products, and why 95% of customers reorder. I know people who got burned by Amway. they'll tell you how expensive it was. 100 points=$200. around 30% reordered. OUCH!
3. there are major contradictions in your third 'point?'. yes, I am 21. NO, it does not take 9 years to make $400 a month. once a Marketing Executive reaches Senior Director they will earn $400 from Melaleuca for a car payment, in addition to the money they will be already earning. In order to get to Senior Director, a Marketing Executive will need:
20,000 organizational product points.
400 preferred customers in their entire organization.
20 personal enrollees and 5 personally enrolled Directors.

While this is a significant amount of work, it shouldn't take more than 6 months-1year to achieve.
As far as how much time I've invested:1-2 hours per customer. so say I spent 2 hours per enrolled customer. that's 16 hours to get to Director for that $500 check. that;s $31.25 an hour.
As for the 'mandatory spending' comment, do you brush your teeth, wash, do your laundry and wash your dishes? oh, really? guess what, your the kind of person who has the qualifications for this company!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider1....

Mon, 01 Oct 2012 07:07:48 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Oct/01/2012 at 7:07am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

1. Melaleuca is not an MLM. we are the first Consumer Direct Marketing company.
2. I agree with you, MLM's are evil. making the financial outcome of the few at the top as the goal of every single person joining their company is wrong. I apologize if I have unintentionally painted that picture of Melaleuca.
3. In order to earn big bucks you will need to work hard and consistently, it won't happen overnight. I might retire at 30, but even if I don't I aim to have a car payment of $400 a month to help me get e new car and I know that even if the check from Melaleuca is small right now, it will grow.
4. The goal of this company is not a get rich quick theme. sorry once again if my excitement painted that picture. The emphasis is on the products. My dad and I have noticed a difference by taking the 'Unforgettables' supplements. We have been able to process our severe A.D.D. I know that you might think it's just me wishing the products would work, and, 'oh wow, they do!' no, these products ARE making a difference in mine and my dad's life.
5. I used to get sick from using regular cleaning products to clean my bathroom. I'd have the window and door open too. now I can use our product called Tub n Tile, door and window closed, and because it's chemical free, it doesn't have any negative effects on me.
I know you are probably thinking, "can a 'green' product actually work as well as a chemical laden one?" yes! as a matter of FACT, our cleaner works way better than Tilex in actually removing soap scum build up, mineral deposits and other things, in addition to leaving the bathroom spelling 100% clean(something I didn't notice with using lysol)and 100%chemical free.

1. It is 100% an MLM. All MLMs try to represent themselves as something else. I'll admit their model is slightly less evil since their payout structure is better than most other MLMs. However, less evil is still evil.

2. Making the financial outcome of a few at the top as a goal is exactly what Mela does. Again, GO LOOK AT THE INCOME STATEMENT. From their own income statement...

a. 98.4% of Mela customers/distributors/whatever you call them, makes less than $2054 per year BEFORE their mandatory points spending (which is about $900 per year). This includes everyone up to Director I/II

b. 85.3% of them make less than $2054 per year even if you only consider those who are serious about building a business.

c. 0.5% of them (or 4.5% of the serious business builders) make it to Senior Director and above. This is the level needed to retire since it is average $62k per year (minus expenses).

d. less than 0.011% of them (or less than 0.1% of serious business builders) can be considered "rich"

Isn't it clear that only a FEW people are making money on Mela? Isn't it clear that even of those who are making money, even fewer of them are going to make enough to retire?

3. According to your profile, you are 21. If it takes 9 years to make $400 per month to make enough for payments (not even to buy a new car), you are doing it wrong. Minimum wage in Pennsylvania is $7.25 per hour. If you wanted $400 a month, that is only 55 hours per month or less than 14 hours per week. You can do that today... why wait until you're 30? How many hours do you need to put in to make $400 a month on Mela AFTER your mandatory points spending?

Here's a fun fact, if you worked minimum wage for 1 hour per day for 9 years, you will have made almost $24000. By the time you are 30, you will have made enough money to buy the car in cash. Could you do that with Mela?

FYI. The hall mark brainwashing theme of MLMs is that
a. "they are not like other MLMs"
b. "you have to work hard"
c. "you won't get rich overnight"
d. "you failed because you didn't work hard."

But then they turn around and tell you that you'll retire by 30. How stupid do you have to be to fall for this?

4./5. Back to the products, I still haven't seen a price comparison. You insisted earlier that Mela products were a good deal.

I might ignore the price aspect because some might be willing to pay more if there is a REAL health benefit. But, I want some independent testing showing that the products are actually better.

Hearing how good the products are from the sales guy who makes a commission off the product doesn't really sell it for me. It's a conflict of interest. Regarding cleaners, you do know that there are home made solutions that are probably equally as effective (or close to) as store bought commercial stuff right? IF you had such a bad health problem with those commercial cleaners, why didn't you just research how to clean stuff naturally? It is MUCH cheaper that way too.

I will bet the following will be even healthier than Mela products.
http://www.making-healthy-choices.com/homemade-cleaning-products.html
http://www.making-healthy-choices.com/homemade-cleaning-products.html
http://www.mycleaningproducts.com/blog/house-cleaning-supplies/
http://recentlyawakened.hubpages.com/hub/Top-5-Reasons-To-Use-Homemade-Cleaning-Products

MLMs work because people are gullible. And since MLMs prey on gullible people to make money, they are evil.

Jesus Christ : It's Multiple Level Marketing...

Sun, 30 Sep 2012 16:29:27 +0000
Author: belleayre
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/30/2012 at 4:29pm

It's Multiple Level Marketing by definition, no matter how the company chooses to describe itself.

Anyway, I wish you well, hope you see the light sooner rather than later.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by belleayreYou're...

Sun, 30 Sep 2012 14:26:26 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/30/2012 at 2:26pm

Originally posted by belleayre

You're just spamming this forum advertising this MLM (seven levels according to Forbes). Your guru doesn't sound as bad as most, BTW he does not encourage his disciples to go into debt to buy cars.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/1011/089_print.html
I am not spamming this forum(which I created, btw). If you look to the beginning of our conversation, you'll see that I was announcing how God has been working in my life.
Melaleuca is NOT an MLM! We are a Consumer Direct Marketing company.
I'm not sure what your comment about going into debt to buy a car was about.
Our company gives you $400 a month for a car payment at Senior Director(once you have 20 personally enrolled customers, and 5 of them who have 8.) I just became a Director(enrolling 8) and will be receiving a check for $500. it could take me a year to get 5 Directors, but I will do it!

Jesus Christ : You're just spamming this...

Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:37:55 +0000
Author: belleayre
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/29/2012 at 12:37pm

You're just spamming this forum advertising this MLM (seven levels according to Forbes). Your guru doesn't sound as bad as most, BTW he does not encourage his disciples to go into debt to buy cars.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/1011/089_print.html

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Sat, 29 Sep 2012 09:16:57 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/29/2012 at 9:16am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by ctoma

^ Damn, $500 for the month? What's that work out to be.... hmmmm.... ~$125/week? Where do I sign up???

Ask your friends and family for money. It's less work and is essentially what MLMs are...
MLM, not Melaleuca.
LAUGH NOW! because when I turn 30 i'll be retiring...
I'll be earning more residual income in a few months than you make in a year.
Money I won't have to work for...ever again.

This is why MLMs are evil. They have convinced you that you will be living the dream when we all KNOW, even from their own material (income statement), that most people will not make enough money to quit their job let alone make more money in a few months than I do in a year.

From their own stats. 2.5% of the serious business builders (11% of the total) makes an average of $62k per year (Senior director). This is the level you need to quit your day job.

Now let's look at how much money you'll need before you make more than I do in a few months. I'm not telling you how much I make, let's just assume I make $62k. To make that in 4 months (what I consider a few), you need an annual income of $186k. Even at Executive director level, you are only at $153k average and only 1.4% of them make that kind of money.

Trust me. You won't be retiring by 30. You'll quit this program having spent more than you get in return. And you will have condemned all those that you signed up to the same fate.

1. Melaleuca is not an MLM. we are the first Consumer Direct Marketing company.
2. I agree with you, MLM's are evil. making the financial outcome of the few at the top as the goal of every single person joining their company is wrong. I apologize if I have unintentionally painted that picture of Melaleuca.
3. In order to earn big bucks you will need to work hard and consistently, it won't happen overnight. I might retire at 30, but even if I don't I aim to have a car payment of $400 a month to help me get e new car and I know that even if the check from Melaleuca is small right now, it will grow.
4. The goal of this company is not a get rich quick theme. sorry once again if my excitement painted that picture. The emphasis is on the products. My dad and I have noticed a difference by taking the 'Unforgettables' supplements. We have been able to process our severe A.D.D. I know that you might think it's just me wishing the products would work, and, 'oh wow, they do!' no, these products ARE making a difference in mine and my dad's life.
5. I used to get sick from using regular cleaning products to clean my bathroom. I'd have the window and door open too. now I can use our product called Tub n Tile, door and window closed, and because it's chemical free, it doesn't have any negative effects on me.
I know you are probably thinking, "can a 'green' product actually work as well as a chemical laden one?" yes! as a matter of FACT, our cleaner works way better than Tilex in actually removing soap scum build up, mineral deposits and other things, in addition to leaving the bathroom spelling 100% clean(something I didn't notice with using lysol)and 100%chemical free.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by ctoma Originally...

Sat, 29 Sep 2012 08:20:13 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/29/2012 at 8:20am

Originally posted by ctoma

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by ctoma

^ Damn, $500 for the month? What's that work out to be.... hmmmm.... ~$125/week? Where do I sign up???

Ask your friends and family for money. It's less work and is essentially what MLMs are...
MLM, not Melaleuca.
LAUGH NOW! because when I turn 30 i'll be retiring...
I'll be earning more residual income in a few months than you make in a year.
Money I won't have to work for...ever again.

Get back to us when you're 30 and realize you had to get a real job because this Metamucil organization is bullshit. And your quote about earning more residual income in a few months than I make in a year? Funniest thing I have read in a long time. Your $500/month is a joke, employees at Target make more than that. I wonder how many friends/family you have to con to become part of the pyramid below you? How many friends/family will de-friend and de-family you for getting them involved in such a bullshit organization? Sounds like you are drinking the Kool-aid and believing everything the top of the pyramid is feeding you.

Do yourself a favor and join the Marines like God intended you to do. Listen to Him, He said "Join the Marines, Slacker!!!".
alright, maybe I should take back my comment about earning more than you guys until I actually do. put action to my words. I'm sorry, I got a little ahead of myself. Apology accepted? probably not, but it's said nevertheless.
The whole point of this company is to be a part time job. I am realizing that I need to get a regular job in addition to working Melaleuca as a business in order to succeed.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Sat, 29 Sep 2012 08:16:47 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/29/2012 at 8:16am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

I apologize again, I forgot to answer the rest of your question(accusation? jk)
like you said yourself, I'm going to tell you that these products are merely replacing the chemical laden, expansive, ineffective products with solutions that (REALLY) work. (1)
I never thought of it as $720 a year(thank you for breaking it down that way), however, I haven't noticed a 'loss of funds', but rather(from personal experience with the products) I feel healthier (2). Whether it's starting a workout with their Access bar, drinking Sustain while exercising, drinking the protein shake afterwards, washing with their french milled Gold bar(which has lasted me over 2 months...and counting), cleaning with Tub n Tile(which actually removes the Pocono's hard water mineral build up problem) or knowing that I'm saving a ton of money, (3) and improving my hands, every time I use Lemon Brite (4)(dish cleaner), Melaleuca products would be worth the transition, even if i didn't 'make a buck' from enrolling preferred customers.

1. Still to be proven. I challenge you to come up with independent tests/reviews of the products. Look for chemical make up to compare to equivalent products to see what's in there. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Don't just believe what MEL marketing propoganda tells you.

2. Feeling healthier is likely just a placebo effect. See point #1 But I'm glad you acknowledge you are losing money rather than denying that you are "in the whole".

3. Still to be proven. You haven't shown me you are saving money at all. Similar products are the same or less money especially given the fact that you have to pay for shipping. See point #1.

4. Still just a baseless claim. Still to be proven. See point #1.

Originally posted by snowboardslider

As for my financial situation, I guess you could argue that I am loosing money...
I have been buying the products for 4 months now, and have probably spent almost $300.
That only seems like a lot of money because you are buying the products all at one time. (5) If you were to compare our product to ANY 'competitor', you'd instantly see the savings and quality difference. (6)
This month, I only have to enroll 3 more customers, and Melaleuca will send me a check for $500! (7)
I won't 'count my chickens before they hatch', but If I reach a certain Director level before January, I'll have the opportunity to earn anywhere from $5000-$10,000! (8)(not bad for merely referring people to shop through Melaleuca, eh?)
Keep in mind something, once you get to any level, you WILL earn that residual income, for the rest of your life. so even at Marketing Executive III, you will earn no less that a $557 ADDITION to your paycheck (9)...that you won't have to work for in the future!
When somebody has 1-7 customers, they earn 7% of that customers point order; when they enroll 8-19, they earn 14%; and once they enroll 20, they start earning 20% of the product points of their personally enrolled customers.
Additionally, if I enroll somebody, and they enroll somebody, I will earn 7% off of that persons point order. capisci? italiano...  (10)

5. So you averaged about $75 per month ($900 per year). I would agree what you've spent over the 4 months is not that much if you were allowed to stop buying. Clearly, by your statement that you are "Buying all the products at one time" means you have purchased MORE than you needed for that period. When you are forced to continue buying every month, then your supply continues to grow and grow so that you'll never use it all. Buying more than you need = wasting money. Not saving.

6. Still waiting for the comparison. If I would "instantly see the savings" why can't you show me a real comparison.

7. You intentionally mis-represented your true earnings/loss. You said you were "not in the whole" and you said "I will earn $500 this month". The fact is you ARE in the hole and you might not make your $500 this month because you still have to sign up 3 more customers.

8. You will have the OPPORTUNITY to earn. That means nothing. That's the problem with MLM. They try to make you believe YOU will be earning that kind of money. Clearly you have fallen for it. In some states, it is ILLEGAL to make claims of potential revenue. In other states, you can make a claim but you MUST indicate what the average income level is. In this case, the average Director level 1/2 makes $2054 per year GROSS (you still have to pay your $900 a year to buy the products). You are left with roughly $1000 per year. Pretty crappy job if you ask me.

9. You will earn that residual income assuming your customers don't bail (which a lot will).

10. Thank you for explaining MLM to me.
ugh. I will not give up trying to explain the truth. thank you for not giving up on correcting me. It is my fault alone for misrepresenting Melaleuca. It would be so much easier for you to be able to log onto the website, and see all the information for yourself. I know the things I have said don't seem 100% true, and I'm sorry for that. I can't seem to accurately portray the company. but please look past my imperfection to what the company actually is. I will try again to answer your (legitimate) question about the Melaleuca. thank you for being patient and understanding!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Thu, 27 Sep 2012 09:55:33 +0000
Author: ctoma
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/27/2012 at 9:55am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by ctoma

^ Damn, $500 for the month? What's that work out to be.... hmmmm.... ~$125/week? Where do I sign up???

Ask your friends and family for money. It's less work and is essentially what MLMs are...
MLM, not Melaleuca.
LAUGH NOW! because when I turn 30 i'll be retiring...
I'll be earning more residual income in a few months than you make in a year.
Money I won't have to work for...ever again.

Get back to us when you're 30 and realize you had to get a real job because this Metamucil organization is bullshit. And your quote about earning more residual income in a few months than I make in a year? Funniest thing I have read in a long time. Your $500/month is a joke, employees at Target make more than that. I wonder how many friends/family you have to con to become part of the pyramid below you? How many friends/family will de-friend and de-family you for getting them involved in such a bullshit organization? Sounds like you are drinking the Kool-aid and believing everything the top of the pyramid is feeding you.

Do yourself a favor and join the Marines like God intended you to do. Listen to Him, He said "Join the Marines, Slacker!!!".

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:48:23 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/27/2012 at 7:48am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by ctoma

^ Damn, $500 for the month? What's that work out to be.... hmmmm.... ~$125/week? Where do I sign up???

Ask your friends and family for money. It's less work and is essentially what MLMs are...
MLM, not Melaleuca.
LAUGH NOW! because when I turn 30 i'll be retiring...
I'll be earning more residual income in a few months than you make in a year.
Money I won't have to work for...ever again.

This is why MLMs are evil. They have convinced you that you will be living the dream when we all KNOW, even from their own material (income statement), that most people will not make enough money to quit their job let alone make more money in a few months than I do in a year.

From their own stats. 2.5% of the serious business builders (11% of the total) makes an average of $62k per year (Senior director). This is the level you need to quit your day job.

Now let's look at how much money you'll need before you make more than I do in a few months. I'm not telling you how much I make, let's just assume I make $62k. To make that in 4 months (what I consider a few), you need an annual income of $186k. Even at Executive director level, you are only at $153k average and only 1.4% of them make that kind of money.

Trust me. You won't be retiring by 30. You'll quit this program having spent more than you get in return. And you will have condemned all those that you signed up to the same fate.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardsliderI...

Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:37:32 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/27/2012 at 7:37am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

I apologize again, I forgot to answer the rest of your question(accusation? jk)
like you said yourself, I'm going to tell you that these products are merely replacing the chemical laden, expansive, ineffective products with solutions that (REALLY) work. (1)
I never thought of it as $720 a year(thank you for breaking it down that way), however, I haven't noticed a 'loss of funds', but rather(from personal experience with the products) I feel healthier (2). Whether it's starting a workout with their Access bar, drinking Sustain while exercising, drinking the protein shake afterwards, washing with their french milled Gold bar(which has lasted me over 2 months...and counting), cleaning with Tub n Tile(which actually removes the Pocono's hard water mineral build up problem) or knowing that I'm saving a ton of money, (3) and improving my hands, every time I use Lemon Brite (4)(dish cleaner), Melaleuca products would be worth the transition, even if i didn't 'make a buck' from enrolling preferred customers.

1. Still to be proven. I challenge you to come up with independent tests/reviews of the products. Look for chemical make up to compare to equivalent products to see what's in there. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. Don't just believe what MEL marketing propoganda tells you.

2. Feeling healthier is likely just a placebo effect. See point #1 But I'm glad you acknowledge you are losing money rather than denying that you are "in the whole".

3. Still to be proven. You haven't shown me you are saving money at all. Similar products are the same or less money especially given the fact that you have to pay for shipping. See point #1.

4. Still just a baseless claim. Still to be proven. See point #1.

Originally posted by snowboardslider

As for my financial situation, I guess you could argue that I am loosing money...
I have been buying the products for 4 months now, and have probably spent almost $300.
That only seems like a lot of money because you are buying the products all at one time. (5) If you were to compare our product to ANY 'competitor', you'd instantly see the savings and quality difference. (6)
This month, I only have to enroll 3 more customers, and Melaleuca will send me a check for $500! (7)
I won't 'count my chickens before they hatch', but If I reach a certain Director level before January, I'll have the opportunity to earn anywhere from $5000-$10,000! (8)(not bad for merely referring people to shop through Melaleuca, eh?)
Keep in mind something, once you get to any level, you WILL earn that residual income, for the rest of your life. so even at Marketing Executive III, you will earn no less that a $557 ADDITION to your paycheck (9)...that you won't have to work for in the future!
When somebody has 1-7 customers, they earn 7% of that customers point order; when they enroll 8-19, they earn 14%; and once they enroll 20, they start earning 20% of the product points of their personally enrolled customers.
Additionally, if I enroll somebody, and they enroll somebody, I will earn 7% off of that persons point order. capisci? italiano...  (10)

5. So you averaged about $75 per month ($900 per year). I would agree what you've spent over the 4 months is not that much if you were allowed to stop buying. Clearly, by your statement that you are "Buying all the products at one time" means you have purchased MORE than you needed for that period. When you are forced to continue buying every month, then your supply continues to grow and grow so that you'll never use it all. Buying more than you need = wasting money. Not saving.

6. Still waiting for the comparison. If I would "instantly see the savings" why can't you show me a real comparison.

7. You intentionally mis-represented your true earnings/loss. You said you were "not in the whole" and you said "I will earn $500 this month". The fact is you ARE in the hole and you might not make your $500 this month because you still have to sign up 3 more customers.

8. You will have the OPPORTUNITY to earn. That means nothing. That's the problem with MLM. They try to make you believe YOU will be earning that kind of money. Clearly you have fallen for it. In some states, it is ILLEGAL to make claims of potential revenue. In other states, you can make a claim but you MUST indicate what the average income level is. In this case, the average Director level 1/2 makes $2054 per year GROSS (you still have to pay your $900 a year to buy the products). You are left with roughly $1000 per year. Pretty crappy job if you ask me.

9. You will earn that residual income assuming your customers don't bail (which a lot will).

10. Thank you for explaining MLM to me.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider3....

Thu, 27 Sep 2012 07:01:43 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/27/2012 at 7:01am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

3. I can inform you on some of the products and how a lot of them cost less, without compromising the ingredients. Here are a few of our exceptional products that blow other companies out of the water:

a. Lemon Brite: (hand)dish washing detergent.
Fights grease.
Cost: $4 or $10.8o for 3.
Then you dilute it by three...
Bringing the final price down to a dollar and change per bottle!
(Replaces: Dawn, )

b. Tub n Tile: bathroom cleaner.
Fights soap scum.
Cost: $5.69 per concentrated bottle.
Each bottle is diluted 6 times, costing less than one dollar per bottle.
(Replaces: Cascade, )

c. Renew: hand lotion.
Description right from the website
Heals, protects, and prevents even the driest skin
Restores moisture to skin
Leaves skin softer
Outperformed Original Eucerin® in clinical tests
Fast-absorbing, long-lasting, replenishing relief
Renew is clinically proven to leave even severely dry skin silkier and healthier in just 24 hours.
In clinical studies, Renew outperformed the leading dermatologist-recommended lotion for skin softness, smoothness, and hydration.

4. .o1% decide to BUILD a Melaleuca business(not just refer a customer from time to time).
There are 3 levels of customer commitment:
1. Simply be a customer, referring Melaleuca to people on occasion.
2. Spend under 20 hours a week working the business.
3. spend 40+ hour a week working the business.

Re: Product comparison.
1. You didn't compare the prices of the actual products
2. You also have to compare the effectiveness of the product.
3. You did not provide the size of the product for the price.
4. Diluting is not a valid comparison since you can dilute to 6 to 1 or 10 to 1 to generate your desired price level. It is about effectiveness (point 2)

a. Lemon Brite $4 vs. Dawn (walmart) $3.97 for 38oz
b. Tub n Tile $5.69 vs. Cascade. I could not find a Cascade bathroom cleaner from Walmart. Tilex is $3.98 for 32oz
c. Renew Hand Lotion - no price provided.

When doing a comparison of the products to know if you are getting a deal, you need to compare price/volume, effectiveness, etc.

You still haven't shown how MEL is any better or cheaper than going to Walmart (especially since there is a shipping cost you need to add on to the products).

Re: Business Building
1. You defined business building as "refer people to MEL" - your own words.
2. I don't think you read MEL's income statement that I linked before.

If you had read the income statement, you will know that 27% refer people from time to time. 11% are serious about "building a business".

11% is still MUCH more (1100 times) than 0.01%

----
Whoever told you these stats is lying to you or is ignorant.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 21:16:09 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 9:16pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

I'm sorry for being away so long. I just fixed my log in, so I will be back to straighten things out.
Anybody can distort facts to make a company, or anything look bad. (1) However, once the truth is uncovered, it changes everything. The fact is, 95% of the people who place an order through Melaleuca will reorder next month. that's way higher than other MLM's...and guess what. Melaleuca is the first in its class, THEY ARE NOT AN MLM!!! (2). They specialize in consumer direct marketing. people refer people to the company, who buy right from the company. so middle man. and the bold claims you mentioned above are actually true. However, you distorted them. Here's the truth. not everybody will 'build a Melaleuca business'. the people that don't aren't lesser for it, they will just be customers for life, enjoying amazing products (3). less that .01% will decide to build their business(refer people to Melaleuca).(4).  Melaleuca does do the things you mentioned above. hundreds of people have burned their mortgages, EARNED $400-1000 a month for a car payment, sent their children to college, paid off all their dept, and now live comfortably in retirement. THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR EVERYBODY. DUH!! you have to work hard. this is not a 'get rich overnight' scheme (5). but they can offer these claims because it really works. they are the only company that has TRUE RESIDUAL INCOME!. I would love to answer any further questions. but please, ask, don't make accusations on what you THINK our company is about (6). they have changed the game from all other MLM's out there; to which you can't even compare.

You want to have a REAL discussion and not just throw around useless statements like "they are the only company that has TRUE RESIDUAL INCOME!"? (BTW, all MLMs have true residual income. That's the point of an MLM). Let me start with a link to the income statement from Melaleuca ("MEL"). This is published by MEL themselves. 2011 Income Statement. Or, for your reference, here is the 2010 Income Statement

1. Anyone can also distort facts to make a company look good. And in some cases, like this one, some may even lie or make up facts. See point (4) below.

2. The number of times a customer reorders is not a measure of whether or not this is an MLM. The funny thing is you are comparing customer reorder rate of MEL to other MLMs. Does this not imply that you consider MEL an MLM? Also, you say they (MEL), are at the top of their class. Class of what? MLMs? Does this not also imply they are an MLM? Clearly it is an MLM.
3. Amazing products? I don't have access to their products and prices but I would challenge you to do some research on the ingredients of the products and look at prices for alternatives. Also look for some independent tests of these products compared to regular brands.
4. The actual FACT is that 38% of MEL customers refer others... substantially more than "less than .01%"
5. This is exactly what ALL of these MLM company's teach their "reps" to say. Very consistent.
6. I am not saying what I "think". I am stating facts. You are actually saying what you "think" and not providing any (real) facts.

Here are some more numbers for you to mull over from the income statement...

Out of the 11% that MEL says are serious about building a "business" (ie. Director and above), 85.3% have an average income of $2054 per year and takes roughly 7 months to get to that level.

Let's look at the costs...
1. $29 enrollment fee
2. 35pts minimum purchase to maintain membership is about $60 per month = $720 per year
3. average shipping cost $7 per order per month = $84 per year

So you pull in roughly $100 per month as a Director... Sounds pretty bad to me.

Keep in mind, this is a DIRECTOR. There are 3 levels below that... 1 directly below that is Marketing III which only makes $557 per year! Guess what? That guy is losing $$

Yes, I know you're going to tell me that the purchases are for stuff you use anyway... I'm pretty sure, I don't need to spend $60 a month for crap I don't use. Especially, if it is overpriced... (not saying it is. But it could be...).

If you REALLY believe this is such a great way to make money, please post all your costs, fees, bonuses, revenue, etc. Also post some products and their prices so we can compare if these products are worth it or just junk.

Firstly, I would like to apologize for misrepresenting Melaleuca. I will say that this company is 1oo% honest about everything, so anybody can learn the truth.
Secondly, I would like to thank you for correcting me with an un-biased, mature response, and not with a bunch of hateful, useless words. I will now learn even more about the company, so as to not repeat this mistake.

3. I can inform you on some of the products and how a lot of them cost less, without compromising the ingredients. Here are a few of our exceptional products that blow other companies out of the water:

a. Lemon Brite: (hand)dish washing detergent.
Fights grease.
Cost: $4 or $10.8o for 3.
Then you dilute it by three...
Bringing the final price down to a dollar and change per bottle!
(Replaces: Dawn, )

b. Tub n Tile: bathroom cleaner.
Fights soap scum.
Cost: $5.69 per concentrated bottle.
Each bottle is diluted 6 times, costing less than one dollar per bottle.
(Replaces: Cascade, )

c. Renew: hand lotion.
Description right from the website
Heals, protects, and prevents even the driest skin
Restores moisture to skin
Leaves skin softer
Outperformed Original Eucerin® in clinical tests
Fast-absorbing, long-lasting, replenishing relief
Renew is clinically proven to leave even severely dry skin silkier and healthier in just 24 hours.
In clinical studies, Renew outperformed the leading dermatologist-recommended lotion for skin softness, smoothness, and hydration.

4. .o1% decide to BUILD a Melaleuca business(not just refer a customer from time to time).
There are 3 levels of customer commitment:
1. Simply be a customer, referring Melaleuca to people on occasion.
2. Spend under 20 hours a week working the business.
3. spend 40+ hour a week working the business.
I apologize again, I forgot to answer the rest of your question(accusation? jk)
like you said yourself, I'm going to tell you that these products are merely replacing the chemical laden, expansive, ineffective products with solutions that (REALLY) work.
I never thought of it as $720 a year(thank you for breaking it down that way), however, I haven't noticed a 'loss of funds', but rather(from personal experience with the products) I feel healthier. Whether it's starting a workout with their Access bar, drinking Sustain while exercising, drinking the protein shake afterwards, washing with their french milled Gold bar(which has lasted me over 2 months...and counting), cleaning with Tub n Tile(which actually removes the Pocono's hard water mineral build up problem) or knowing that I'm saving a ton of money, and improving my hands, every time I use Lemon Brite(dish cleaner), Melaleuca products would be worth the transition, even if i didn't 'make a buck' from enrolling preferred customers.
As for my financial situation, I guess you could argue that I am loosing money...
I have been buying the products for 4 months now, and have probably spent almost $300.
That only seems like a lot of money because you are buying the products all at one time. If you were to compare our product to ANY 'competitor', you'd instantly see the savings and quality difference.
This month, I only have to enroll 3 more customers, and Melaleuca will send me a check for $500!
I won't 'count my chickens before they hatch', but If I reach a certain Director level before January, I'll have the opportunity to earn anywhere from $5000-$10,000!(not bad for merely referring people to shop through Melaleuca, eh?)
Keep in mind something, once you get to any level, you WILL earn that residual income, for the rest of your life. so even at Marketing Executive III, you will earn no less that a $557 ADDITION to your paycheck...that you won't have to work for in the future!
When somebody has 1-7 customers, they earn 7% of that customers point order; when they enroll 8-19, they earn 14%; and once they enroll 20, they start earning 20% of the product points of their personally enrolled customers.
Additionally, if I enroll somebody, and they enroll somebody, I will earn 7% off of that persons point order. capisci? italiano...

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 20:35:11 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 8:35pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

I'm sorry for being away so long. I just fixed my log in, so I will be back to straighten things out.
Anybody can distort facts to make a company, or anything look bad. (1) However, once the truth is uncovered, it changes everything. The fact is, 95% of the people who place an order through Melaleuca will reorder next month. that's way higher than other MLM's...and guess what. Melaleuca is the first in its class, THEY ARE NOT AN MLM!!! (2). They specialize in consumer direct marketing. people refer people to the company, who buy right from the company. so middle man. and the bold claims you mentioned above are actually true. However, you distorted them. Here's the truth. not everybody will 'build a Melaleuca business'. the people that don't aren't lesser for it, they will just be customers for life, enjoying amazing products (3). less that .01% will decide to build their business(refer people to Melaleuca).(4).  Melaleuca does do the things you mentioned above. hundreds of people have burned their mortgages, EARNED $400-1000 a month for a car payment, sent their children to college, paid off all their dept, and now live comfortably in retirement. THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR EVERYBODY. DUH!! you have to work hard. this is not a 'get rich overnight' scheme (5). but they can offer these claims because it really works. they are the only company that has TRUE RESIDUAL INCOME!. I would love to answer any further questions. but please, ask, don't make accusations on what you THINK our company is about (6). they have changed the game from all other MLM's out there; to which you can't even compare.

You want to have a REAL discussion and not just throw around useless statements like "they are the only company that has TRUE RESIDUAL INCOME!"? (BTW, all MLMs have true residual income. That's the point of an MLM). Let me start with a link to the income statement from Melaleuca ("MEL"). This is published by MEL themselves. 2011 Income Statement. Or, for your reference, here is the 2010 Income Statement

1. Anyone can also distort facts to make a company look good. And in some cases, like this one, some may even lie or make up facts. See point (4) below.

2. The number of times a customer reorders is not a measure of whether or not this is an MLM. The funny thing is you are comparing customer reorder rate of MEL to other MLMs. Does this not imply that you consider MEL an MLM? Also, you say they (MEL), are at the top of their class. Class of what? MLMs? Does this not also imply they are an MLM? Clearly it is an MLM.
3. Amazing products? I don't have access to their products and prices but I would challenge you to do some research on the ingredients of the products and look at prices for alternatives. Also look for some independent tests of these products compared to regular brands.
4. The actual FACT is that 38% of MEL customers refer others... substantially more than "less than .01%"
5. This is exactly what ALL of these MLM company's teach their "reps" to say. Very consistent.
6. I am not saying what I "think". I am stating facts. You are actually saying what you "think" and not providing any (real) facts.

Here are some more numbers for you to mull over from the income statement...

Out of the 11% that MEL says are serious about building a "business" (ie. Director and above), 85.3% have an average income of $2054 per year and takes roughly 7 months to get to that level.

Let's look at the costs...
1. $29 enrollment fee
2. 35pts minimum purchase to maintain membership is about $60 per month = $720 per year
3. average shipping cost $7 per order per month = $84 per year

So you pull in roughly $100 per month as a Director... Sounds pretty bad to me.

Keep in mind, this is a DIRECTOR. There are 3 levels below that... 1 directly below that is Marketing III which only makes $557 per year! Guess what? That guy is losing $$

Yes, I know you're going to tell me that the purchases are for stuff you use anyway... I'm pretty sure, I don't need to spend $60 a month for crap I don't use. Especially, if it is overpriced... (not saying it is. But it could be...).

If you REALLY believe this is such a great way to make money, please post all your costs, fees, bonuses, revenue, etc. Also post some products and their prices so we can compare if these products are worth it or just junk.

Firstly, I would like to apologize for misrepresenting Melaleuca. I will say that this company is 1oo% honest about everything, so anybody can learn the truth.
Secondly, I would like to thank you for correcting me with an un-biased, mature response, and not with a bunch of hateful, useless words. I will now learn even more about the company, so as to not repeat this mistake.

3. I can inform you on some of the products and how a lot of them cost less, without compromising the ingredients. Here are a few of our exceptional products that blow other companies out of the water:

a. Lemon Brite: (hand)dish washing detergent.
Fights grease.
Cost: $4 or $10.8o for 3.
Then you dilute it by three...
Bringing the final price down to a dollar and change per bottle!
(Replaces: Dawn, )

b. Tub n Tile: bathroom cleaner.
Fights soap scum.
Cost: $5.69 per concentrated bottle.
Each bottle is diluted 6 times, costing less than one dollar per bottle.
(Replaces: Cascade, )

c. Renew: hand lotion.
Description right from the website
Heals, protects, and prevents even the driest skin
Restores moisture to skin
Leaves skin softer
Outperformed Original Eucerin® in clinical tests
Fast-absorbing, long-lasting, replenishing relief
Renew is clinically proven to leave even severely dry skin silkier and healthier in just 24 hours.
In clinical studies, Renew outperformed the leading dermatologist-recommended lotion for skin softness, smoothness, and hydration.

4. .o1% decide to BUILD a Melaleuca business(not just refer a customer from time to time).
There are 3 levels of customer commitment:
1. Simply be a customer, referring Melaleuca to people on occasion.
2. Spend under 20 hours a week working the business.
3. spend 40+ hour a week working the business.

Jesus Christ : Tonight, after putting my 3-year-old...

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 20:23:56 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 8:23pm

Tonight, after putting my 3-year-old son to bed, I had the pleasure of hearing him reciting some of the Ten Commandments, mixed in with singing the alphabet and a sing-song counting of 1-to-10.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 19:35:08 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 7:35pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by ctoma

^ Damn, $500 for the month? What's that work out to be.... hmmmm.... ~$125/week? Where do I sign up???

Ask your friends and family for money. It's less work and is essentially what MLMs are...
MLM, not Melaleuca.
LAUGH NOW! because when I turn 30 i'll be retiring...
I'll be earning more residual income in a few months than you make in a year.
Money I won't have to work for...ever again.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 18:31:31 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/26/2012 at 6:31pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by ctoma

^ Damn, $500 for the month? What's that work out to be.... hmmmm.... ~$125/week? Where do I sign up???

Ask your friends and family for money. It's less work and is essentially what MLMs are...
MLM, not Melaleuca.

Jesus Christ : Screwtape is one of Satan's...

Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:14:51 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/25/2012 at 10:14am

Screwtape is one of Satan's cronies, and the Screwtape letters are written from Screwtape to a lesser demon named Wormwood.  He basically gives advice on how to thwart the Enemy's (read: God's) plans in nearly every aspect of life. It's just so intriguing to me to think that maybe everyone has a demon assigned to them to keep them from experiencing relationship with God. And it makes you think about things from a different point of view, which is probably the most fun, because you realize what the evil ones are up to. Per Lewis' view, they are very intelligent and deliberate in their efforts. I've caught myself on more than one occassion remarking, "Those bastards!" A lot of what is written in the letters is visible and applicable still in today's world.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:26:35 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/24/2012 at 8:26pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by sgreen

“If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.” C. S. Lewis

I'm finding that Lewis is an amazing author, and I wish I would have started reading his stuff earlier on in life. But his stuff is SOOOO dense sometimes. It takes a while to digest. My bible study group is currently going through The Screwtape Letters, and they are just fascinating. But you really have to actively read, it's not just a skim and get the jist of it, you know?
I do, though not from Lewis' writings. That's kind of the nature of metaphors. John Bunyan's The Pilgrim's Progress is the same way. And, of course, so is scripture.

Isn't the Screwtape Letters about some correspondence between Satan and a demon? I have a copy of it that I started reading about 12 years ago or so, but never finished. I thought it was interesting, kind of clever, but for some reason got away from it. I see and hear Lewis' name come up a lot in theological and apologetics articles and vids. He is highly respected, apparently.

That quote was actually pulled from an article by Alister McGrath on Christian apologetics I was reading. Here's the link, in case you're interested:

http://www.rzim.org/just-thinking/the-heart-of-apologetics/

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreenâ€œIf...

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:00:43 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/24/2012 at 12:00pm

Originally posted by sgreen

“If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.” C. S. Lewis

I'm finding that Lewis is an amazing author, and I wish I would have started reading his stuff earlier on in life. But his stuff is SOOOO dense sometimes. It takes a while to digest. My bible study group is currently going through The Screwtape Letters, and they are just fascinating. But you really have to actively read, it's not just a skim and get the jist of it, you know?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by ctoma^...

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:51:04 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/24/2012 at 11:51am

Originally posted by ctoma

^ Damn, $500 for the month? What's that work out to be.... hmmmm.... ~$125/week? Where do I sign up???

Ask your friends and family for money. It's less work and is essentially what MLMs are...

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardsliderI'm...

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 11:49:25 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/24/2012 at 11:49am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

I'm sorry for being away so long. I just fixed my log in, so I will be back to straighten things out.
Anybody can distort facts to make a company, or anything look bad. (1) However, once the truth is uncovered, it changes everything. The fact is, 95% of the people who place an order through Melaleuca will reorder next month. that's way higher than other MLM's...and guess what. Melaleuca is the first in its class, THEY ARE NOT AN MLM!!! (2). They specialize in consumer direct marketing. people refer people to the company, who buy right from the company. so middle man. and the bold claims you mentioned above are actually true. However, you distorted them. Here's the truth. not everybody will 'build a Melaleuca business'. the people that don't aren't lesser for it, they will just be customers for life, enjoying amazing products (3). less that .01% will decide to build their business(refer people to Melaleuca).(4).  Melaleuca does do the things you mentioned above. hundreds of people have burned their mortgages, EARNED $400-1000 a month for a car payment, sent their children to college, paid off all their dept, and now live comfortably in retirement. THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR EVERYBODY. DUH!! you have to work hard. this is not a 'get rich overnight' scheme (5). but they can offer these claims because it really works. they are the only company that has TRUE RESIDUAL INCOME!. I would love to answer any further questions. but please, ask, don't make accusations on what you THINK our company is about (6). they have changed the game from all other MLM's out there; to which you can't even compare.

You want to have a REAL discussion and not just throw around useless statements like "they are the only company that has TRUE RESIDUAL INCOME!"? (BTW, all MLMs have true residual income. That's the point of an MLM). Let me start with a link to the income statement from Melaleuca ("MEL"). This is published by MEL themselves. 2011 Income Statement. Or, for your reference, here is the 2010 Income Statement

1. Anyone can also distort facts to make a company look good. And in some cases, like this one, some may even lie or make up facts. See point (4) below.

2. The number of times a customer reorders is not a measure of whether or not this is an MLM. The funny thing is you are comparing customer reorder rate of MEL to other MLMs. Does this not imply that you consider MEL an MLM? Also, you say they (MEL), are at the top of their class. Class of what? MLMs? Does this not also imply they are an MLM? Clearly it is an MLM.
3. Amazing products? I don't have access to their products and prices but I would challenge you to do some research on the ingredients of the products and look at prices for alternatives. Also look for some independent tests of these products compared to regular brands.
4. The actual FACT is that 38% of MEL customers refer others... substantially more than "less than .01%"
5. This is exactly what ALL of these MLM company's teach their "reps" to say. Very consistent.
6. I am not saying what I "think". I am stating facts. You are actually saying what you "think" and not providing any (real) facts.

Here are some more numbers for you to mull over from the income statement...

Out of the 11% that MEL says are serious about building a "business" (ie. Director and above), 85.3% have an average income of $2054 per year and takes roughly 7 months to get to that level.

Let's look at the costs...
1. $29 enrollment fee
2. 35pts minimum purchase to maintain membership is about $60 per month = $720 per year
3. average shipping cost $7 per order per month = $84 per year

So you pull in roughly $100 per month as a Director... Sounds pretty bad to me.

Keep in mind, this is a DIRECTOR. There are 3 levels below that... 1 directly below that is Marketing III which only makes $557 per year! Guess what? That guy is losing $$

Yes, I know you're going to tell me that the purchases are for stuff you use anyway... I'm pretty sure, I don't need to spend $60 a month for crap I don't use. Especially, if it is overpriced... (not saying it is. But it could be...).

If you REALLY believe this is such a great way to make money, please post all your costs, fees, bonuses, revenue, etc. Also post some products and their prices so we can compare if these products are worth it or just junk.

Jesus Christ : ^ Damn, $500 for the month? What's...

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:38:58 +0000
Author: ctoma
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/24/2012 at 10:38am

^ Damn, $500 for the month? What's that work out to be.... hmmmm.... ~$125/week? Where do I sign up???

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider oh,...

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:12:24 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/24/2012 at 10:12am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

oh, for the record, I am not, "in the whole". i will earn $500 this month...F.Y.I.

I would love to see the math on your "business"...

$$ Spent Since Joining - $$ Earned Since Joining = (A)
# Hours Spent since Joining = (B)

If (A) > 0 then "Congrats, you made some money"
ELSE IF (A) < 0 then "Too bad, you are in the hole"
END IF

Hourly Rate (C) = (A) / (B).

IF (C) > Minimum Wage then "Congrats, you make more than working at McD"
ELSE IF (C) < Minimum Wage then "You are in the hole."
END IF

Oh, one more thing... how much of the $$ you are gonna make is from a source other than from friends and family?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 08:12:21 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/24/2012 at 8:12am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

You can certify that MOST are unethical? What is your evidence?

Funny how I have to prove my statement while slidur is free to say it is a great company? If you want to continue this conversation you should read about MLMs before asking stupid questions. the statistics of MLM show that the majority of people end up losing money. Period. End of story. In fact, I'd bet slidur is in the hole right now too.

http://mlm-thetruth.com/research/mlm-statistics/shocking-stats/

check out Melaleuca's success rate. An amazing 0.13%. With 99.87% of people LOSING money with Melaleuca, I would assume that you'd agree Melaleuca should not say that you can "contribute to household income" and that "Melaleuca can make that possible". How about this one? "At Melaleuca, we're helping families secure their retirement, pay for children's education, get out of debt, and find security in the second half of their life." You can't ethically make these kinds of statements when you KNOW 99.87% of people will NEVER get this.
I'm sorry for being away so long. I just fixed my log in, so I will be back to straighten things out.
Anybody can distort facts to make a company, or anything look bad. However, once the truth is uncovered, it changes everything. The fact is, 95% of the people who place an order through Melaleuca will reorder next month. that's way higher than other MLM's...and guess what. Melaleuca is the first in its class, THEY ARE NOT AN MLM!!! They specialize in consumer direct marketing. people refer people to the company, who buy right from the company. so middle man. and the bold claims you mentioned above are actually true. However, you distorted them. Here's the truth. not everybody will 'build a Melaleuca business'. the people that don't aren't lesser for it, they will just be customers for life, enjoying amazing products. less that .01% will decide to build their business(refer people to Melaleuca). Melaleuca does do the things you mentioned above. hundreds of people have burned their mortgages, EARNED $400-1000 a month for a car payment, sent their children to college, paid off all their dept, and now live comfortably in retirement. THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR EVERYBODY. DUH!! you have to work hard. this is not a 'get rich overnight' scheme. but they can offer these claims because it really works. they are the only company that has TRUE RESIDUAL INCOME! I would love to answer any further questions. but please, ask, don't make accusations on what you THINK our company is about. they have changed the game from all other MLM's out there; to which you can't even compare.
oh, for the record, I am not, "in the whole". i will earn $500 this month...F.Y.I.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 07:57:13 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/24/2012 at 7:57am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

You can certify that MOST are unethical? What is your evidence?

Funny how I have to prove my statement while slidur is free to say it is a great company? If you want to continue this conversation you should read about MLMs before asking stupid questions. the statistics of MLM show that the majority of people end up losing money. Period. End of story. In fact, I'd bet slidur is in the hole right now too.

http://mlm-thetruth.com/research/mlm-statistics/shocking-stats/

check out Melaleuca's success rate. An amazing 0.13%. With 99.87% of people LOSING money with Melaleuca, I would assume that you'd agree Melaleuca should not say that you can "contribute to household income" and that "Melaleuca can make that possible". How about this one? "At Melaleuca, we're helping families secure their retirement, pay for children's education, get out of debt, and find security in the second half of their life." You can't ethically make these kinds of statements when you KNOW 99.87% of people will NEVER get this.
I'm sorry for being away so long. I just fixed my log in, so I will be back to straighten things out.
Anybody can distort facts to make a company, or anything look bad. However, once the truth is uncovered, it changes everything. The fact is, 95% of the people who place an order through Melaleuca will reorder next month. that's way higher than other MLM's...and guess what. Melaleuca is the first in its class, THEY ARE NOT AN MLM!!! They specialize in consumer direct marketing. people refer people to the company, who buy right from the company. so middle man. and the bold claims you mentioned above are actually true. However, you distorted them. Here's the truth. not everybody will 'build a Melaleuca business'. the people that don't aren't lesser for it, they will just be customers for life, enjoying amazing products. less that .01% will decide to build their business(refer people to Melaleuca). Melaleuca does do the things you mentioned above. hundreds of people have burned their mortgages, EARNED $400-1000 a month for a car payment, sent their children to college, paid off all their dept, and now live comfortably in retirement. THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR EVERYBODY. DUH!! you have to work hard. this is not a 'get rich overnight' scheme. but they can offer these claims because it really works. they are the only company that has TRUE RESIDUAL INCOME! I would love to answer any further questions. but please, ask, don't make accusations on what you THINK our company is about. they have changed the game from all other MLM's out there; to which you can't even compare.

Jesus Christ : â€œIf I find in myself a desire...

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 09:26:11 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/20/2012 at 9:26am

“If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.” C. S. Lewis

Jesus Christ : Man, you guys are killing...

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:54:23 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/20/2012 at 8:54am

Man, you guys are killing me.   This has now turned into more of a feud than anything.

RESET button...

Starting over, here ya go: Galatians 2:16

16yet we know that a person is not justified^a by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreenYou...

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 08:09:03 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/20/2012 at 8:09am

Originally posted by sgreen

You can certify that MOST are unethical? What is your evidence?

Funny how I have to prove my statement while slidur is free to say it is a great company? If you want to continue this conversation you should read about MLMs before asking stupid questions. the statistics of MLM show that the majority of people end up losing money. Period. End of story. In fact, I'd bet slidur is in the hole right now too.

http://mlm-thetruth.com/research/mlm-statistics/shocking-stats/

check out Melaleuca's success rate. An amazing 0.13%. With 99.87% of people LOSING money with Melaleuca, I would assume that you'd agree Melaleuca should not say that you can "contribute to household income" and that "Melaleuca can make that possible". How about this one? "At Melaleuca, we're helping families secure their retirement, pay for children's education, get out of debt, and find security in the second half of their life." You can't ethically make these kinds of statements when you KNOW 99.87% of people will NEVER get this.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Wed, 19 Sep 2012 22:29:30 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/19/2012 at 10:29pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Not sure what definition of 'real job' or 'ethics' you're using, but by any definition I'm aware of, working in a MLM is a real job. And since, according to you, "most MLM's are unethical", some are not. So, isn't the important question whether or not the company Slider works for (Melaleuca) is ethical?
I say "most" simply because if I say "all", the literal language police will say that I cannot possibly certify that 100% of MLMs are unethical.
You can certify that MOST are unethical? What is your evidence?
Originally posted by mech9t5

...
MLMs are unethical because their primary pitch is telling you how much money you can make when they know FULL well that you have almost no chance of making any money at all. And, they also know FULL well that you will likely LOSE money.
Can you certify this statement as it relates to Slider's employer, Melaleuca?
Originally posted by mech9t5

Slider has not provided a single point that shows what he is doing via Melaleuca is ethical.
Outside of your opinion, what point have you provided that shows what he is doing via Melaleuca is unethical?
Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

By the way, where do your ethics come from?
Ethics come through natural evolution of society and through social norms.
This is what I'm most interested in: can you explain how this evolutionary process worked to form your ethics?
Thank you.

Jesus Christ : Here is some good news for those...

Sun, 16 Sep 2012 00:38:34 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/16/2012 at 12:38am

Here is some good news for those who follow what is happening to Christians around the world: http://aclj.org/iran/youcef-freed

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Fri, 14 Sep 2012 06:24:57 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/14/2012 at 6:24am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

...

have no idea. in the end mountains all look the same.

edit: after a quick google search. the picture is from methven heliski, new zealand

http://www.methvenheli.co.nz/about/index.html
Heliski is in New Zealand? I thought it was in Finland. Btw, how did you do your Google search?

google image search. you can enter a URL and it returns results of similar images

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5... have...

Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:15:42 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/12/2012 at 2:15pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

...

have no idea. in the end mountains all look the same.

edit: after a quick google search. the picture is from methven heliski, new zealand

http://www.methvenheli.co.nz/about/index.html
Heliski is in New Zealand? I thought it was in Finland. Btw, how did you do your Google search?

Jesus Christ : l love Him!

Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:43:29 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/12/2012 at 1:43pm

l love Him!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Wed, 12 Sep 2012 06:21:27 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/12/2012 at 6:21am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by elmasri90

I like to think of him as a prophet of God
How did you come to your view of Christ? Do you think of him as just a prophet and not the eternal Son of God made flesh? Not the Savior of mankind?

BTW, the scenery in your picture is beautiful. Where was it taken?
Most likely muslim. They view christ as a good guy but not god himself.
Care to speculate on where the picture was taken?

have no idea. in the end mountains all look the same.

edit: after a quick google search. the picture is from methven heliski, new zealand

http://www.methvenheli.co.nz/about/index.html

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 19:35:03 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/11/2012 at 7:35pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by elmasri90

I like to think of him as a prophet of God
How did you come to your view of Christ? Do you think of him as just a prophet and not the eternal Son of God made flesh? Not the Savior of mankind?

BTW, the scenery in your picture is beautiful. Where was it taken?
Most likely muslim. They view christ as a good guy but not god himself.
Care to speculate on where the picture was taken?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 07:12:14 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/10/2012 at 7:12am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing.
Please, explain.
the church does not equal god. the church is run by MAN. they are flawed. Listening to what a MAN says is not the same as listening to what GOD says.

Speak to god directly through prayer.
Do you want to elaborate on that a little? According to what you've written here, I should ignore what you've written here.
I said what MAN says is not equal to what GOD says.

...
~~You cannot simply assume that this statement (man not equal god) means man is ALWAYS wrong.~~ I have only stated that only god knows 100% what god wants. Sometimes man gets it right and sometimes they get it wrong. In some cases, they intentionally get it wrong to benefit themselves.

...
When you told Slider he shouldn't listen to the church because it run by humans (MAN), you essentially told him not to listen to humans. If you are human, everything you said about the church also applies to you.

"as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what mech9t5 wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing"
"mech9t5 does not equal god."
"mech9t5 is MAN"
"mech9t5 is flawed"
"Listening to what mech9t5 says is not the same as listening to what GOD says"
"I said what mech9t5 says is not equal to what GOD says"
"Sometimes mech9t5 gets it right and sometimes mech9t5 gets it wrong."

If Slider shouldn't listen to the church for the reasons you gave, it follows that he shouldn't listen to you for those very same reasons. Do you want to elaborate any further?

Why do you continue to play these quote mining games? Why do you choose to strike out this statement?

"You cannot simply assume that this statement (man not equal god) means man is ALWAYS wrong."

Clearly I am saying that the church (man/me) is sometimes right but not always right. If they are not always right then you (slider) needs to make sure you (slider) are doing what god wants and not what the church wants.

Is that so difficult to understand? Robnezz seemed to clearly understand my meaning. You, on the other hand, just like to distort and quote mine in order to prove your flawed point based on a flawed assumption.

I guess that's what your church teaches you. Distort gods words for your own gain.

You have not answered my question either. Do you think the (your) church is ALWAYS RIGHT?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 06:42:17 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/10/2012 at 6:42am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by elmasri90

I like to think of him as a prophet of God
How did you come to your view of Christ? Do you think of him as just a prophet and not the eternal Son of God made flesh? Not the Savior of mankind?

BTW, the scenery in your picture is beautiful. Where was it taken?

Most likely muslim. They view christ as a good guy but not god himself.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 22:04:19 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Sep/09/2012 at 10:04pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing.
Please, explain.
the church does not equal god. the church is run by MAN. they are flawed. Listening to what a MAN says is not the same as listening to what GOD says.

Speak to god directly through prayer.
Do you want to elaborate on that a little? According to what you've written here, I should ignore what you've written here.
I said what MAN says is not equal to what GOD says.

...
~~You cannot simply assume that this statement (man not equal god) means man is ALWAYS wrong.~~ I have only stated that only god knows 100% what god wants. Sometimes man gets it right and sometimes they get it wrong. In some cases, they intentionally get it wrong to benefit themselves.

...
When you told Slider he shouldn't listen to the church because it run by humans (MAN), you essentially told him not to listen to humans. If you are human, everything you said about the church also applies to you.

"as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what mech9t5 wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing"
"mech9t5 does not equal god."
"mech9t5 is MAN"
"mech9t5 is flawed"
"Listening to what mech9t5 says is not the same as listening to what GOD says"
"I said what mech9t5 says is not equal to what GOD says"
"Sometimes mech9t5 gets it right and sometimes mech9t5 gets it wrong."

If Slider shouldn't listen to the church for the reasons you gave, it follows that he shouldn't listen to you for those very same reasons. Do you want to elaborate any further?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by elmasri90I...

Wed, 29 Aug 2012 21:02:20 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/29/2012 at 9:02pm

Originally posted by elmasri90

I like to think of him as a prophet of God
How did you come to your view of Christ? Do you think of him as just a prophet and not the eternal Son of God made flesh? Not the Savior of mankind?

BTW, the scenery in your picture is beautiful. Where was it taken?

Jesus Christ : I like to think of him as a prophet...

Tue, 28 Aug 2012 23:27:55 +0000
Author: elmasri90
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/28/2012 at 11:27pm

I like to think of him as a prophet of God

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by kikkothe...

Tue, 28 Aug 2012 20:54:20 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/28/2012 at 8:54pm

Originally posted by kikko

the church is petty and evil
What do you think of Jesus Christ?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by kikkothe...

Tue, 28 Aug 2012 17:21:25 +0000
Author: thisisjoebro
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/28/2012 at 5:21pm

Originally posted by kikko

the church is petty and evil

I think you mean to say a spirit of religion is bad. I don't think the church is evil because God wants Christians to fellowship with each other and gather together in His name and worship Him. What happens is at some point a group of Christians will stray away from Jesus and no longer focus on and have a relationship with Him. At that point, man will take matters in his own hand creating a religious church which is no longer focused on God but rather in their own selfish interests. It is important to maintain a constant relationship with Jesus.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by kikkothe...

Tue, 28 Aug 2012 16:16:59 +0000
Author: BoxStomper
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/28/2012 at 4:16pm

Originally posted by kikko

the church is petty and evil

Why do you say this? this is a pretty broad statement

Jesus Christ : the church is petty and evil

Tue, 28 Aug 2012 13:46:30 +0000
Author: kikko
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/28/2012 at 1:46pm

the church is petty and evil

Jesus Christ : ^^Have you had a change of heart?...

Tue, 28 Aug 2012 13:44:59 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/28/2012 at 1:44pm

^^Have you had a change of heart? It wasn't too long ago that you accused God of being petty and evil.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by julius77 Originally...

Tue, 28 Aug 2012 11:39:12 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/28/2012 at 11:39am

Originally posted by julius77

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing.
Please, explain.

the church does not equal god. the church is run by MAN. they are flawed. Listening to what a MAN says is not the same as listening to what GOD says.

Speak to god directly through prayer.

Sometimes God doesn't hear me. It's really nice when He does, though. Maybe when I feel He doesn't hear me, it's because He's trying to teach/show me something. Maybe it's because He's busy doing more important things.

God is always listening. Just because you feel like he hasn't responded, it doesn't mean he hasn't heard you. The nice thing about god is that you are important to him. He is not too busy for each and every one of us.

Only god knows the reasons why he chooses to make himself apparent to one person but not another. Just because he isn't apparent to you doesn't mean he doesn't care about you. He loves us all.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:58:29 +0000
Author: julius77
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/24/2012 at 8:58pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing.
Please, explain.

the church does not equal god. the church is run by MAN. they are flawed. Listening to what a MAN says is not the same as listening to what GOD says.

Speak to god directly through prayer.

Sometimes God doesn't hear me. It's really nice when He does, though. Maybe when I feel He doesn't hear me, it's because He's trying to teach/show me something. Maybe it's because He's busy doing more important things.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Fri, 24 Aug 2012 06:27:27 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/24/2012 at 6:27am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing.
Please, explain.
the church does not equal god. the church is run by MAN. they are flawed. Listening to what a MAN says is not the same as listening to what GOD says.

Speak to god directly through prayer.
Do you want to elaborate on that a little? According to what you've written here, I should ignore what you've written here.

I said what MAN says is not equal to what GOD says.

Since you say what I've written means you should ignore what I've written. You obviously have jumped to the wrong conclusions based on incorrect assumptions.

You cannot simply assume that this statement (man not equal god) means man is ALWAYS wrong. I have only stated that only god knows 100% what god wants. Sometimes man gets it right and sometimes they get it wrong. In some cases, they intentionally get it wrong to benefit themselves.

So you think that the church always equals god's words? If you do, you are incredibly naive or incredibly brainwashed.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Mech,...

Fri, 24 Aug 2012 06:11:50 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/24/2012 at 6:11am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Mech, I give you props. For not being a Christian, you have a profound understanding of how the faith works, and/or should work.

haha... thanks. I am a student of religion. So I consider this a compliment.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Thu, 23 Aug 2012 14:37:15 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/23/2012 at 2:37pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing.
Please, explain.
the church does not equal god. the church is run by MAN. they are flawed. Listening to what a MAN says is not the same as listening to what GOD says.

Speak to god directly through prayer.
Do you want to elaborate on that a little? According to what you've written here, I should ignore what you've written here.

Jesus Christ : Mech, I give you props. For...

Thu, 23 Aug 2012 08:49:23 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/23/2012 at 8:49am

Mech, I give you props. For not being a Christian, you have a profound understanding of how the faith works, and/or should work.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Thu, 23 Aug 2012 06:42:51 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/23/2012 at 6:42am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing.
Please, explain.

the church does not equal god. the church is run by MAN. they are flawed. Listening to what a MAN says is not the same as listening to what GOD says.

Speak to god directly through prayer.

Jesus Christ : Maybe He should send you the Marines...

Wed, 22 Aug 2012 07:17:15 +0000
Author: ctoma
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/22/2012 at 7:17am

Maybe He should send you the Marines brochure and application, I think that would be as much direction as you need.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Wed, 22 Aug 2012 07:02:43 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/22/2012 at 7:02am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

WOW, God is good. when i was at church today, i recieved yet more confirmation that God 's plan for me is to join the Marines. right now, i'm trying very hard to be obedient, to tithe (ten percent on the gross), and whatever else He wants me to do, and He is really moving on my behalf. "seek ye first the kingdom, and all these things will be added unto you, according to His riches and mercy".

as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing.
I see where you're coming from with that. I definitely feel that God is calling me to go into the Marines. if you aren't a Christian, you probably wouldn't inderstand. i've been praying for direction, and He has been 'opening doors'; He keeps showing me all this stuff about the Marines. and how it would benefit me.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5as...

Tue, 21 Aug 2012 09:09:19 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/21/2012 at 9:09am

Originally posted by mech9t5

as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing.
Please, explain.

Jesus Christ : A good view of the upcoming...

Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:33:11 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/20/2012 at 3:33pm

A good view of the upcoming election season:

http://www.christianpost.com/news/max-lucado-tells-christians-not-to-freak-out-ahead-of-election-god-is-in-control-79950/

Jesus Christ : Sometimes they are the same...

Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:08:00 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/20/2012 at 12:08pm

Sometimes they are the same thing, but too often they are not. Even among churches of different theologies there are disagreements on these things. For instance, a topic that I've had to deal with recently is infant baptism: do we baptize our son, or is baptism meant for people who have made a concious decision to follow Jesus?

I will admit, at times it is hard to know what God wants you to do. Pray and ask for help with direction. Most importantly, don't do all the speaking; allow God time to speak to you.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardsliderWOW,...

Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:19:13 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/20/2012 at 11:19am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

WOW, God is good. when i was at church today, i recieved yet more confirmation that God 's plan for me is to join the Marines. right now, i'm trying very hard to be obedient, to tithe (ten percent on the gross), and whatever else He wants me to do, and He is really moving on my behalf. "seek ye first the kingdom, and all these things will be added unto you, according to His riches and mercy".

as rob says, make sure you are doing what god wants you to do and not what the church wants you to do. cause they aren't the same thing.

Jesus Christ : Good on ya for your obedience...

Sun, 19 Aug 2012 11:36:20 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/19/2012 at 11:36am

Good on ya for your obedience and continued walk with Jesus. Best of luck to you with life in the military, and may God bless you in that pursuit.

Remember my fellow brother that the 10% number in and of itself is nowhere to be found in the New Testament. God is not concerned with holding us to the standard of a certain percentage. Give sacrificially, regularly, and humbly are the only commands. I can look up scripture references if you'd like, but my point is that to be obedient in giving, it's not achieving a certain percentage that makes you obedient. It has more to do with the realization that 1. everything you do should be for God's glory and to advance his kingdom, and 2. that all your possessions, money, etc belong to God since he has empowered you in the first place with the ability to make that money. Plus, earthly possessions are fleeting and will not matter when you die.

Jesus Christ : WOW, God is good. when i was at...

Sun, 19 Aug 2012 08:28:19 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/19/2012 at 8:28am

WOW, God is good. when i was at church today, i recieved yet more confirmation that God 's plan for me is to join the Marines. right now, i'm trying very hard to be obedient, to tithe (ten percent on the gross), and whatever else He wants me to do, and He is really moving on my behalf. "seek ye first the kingdom, and all these things will be added unto you, according to His riches and mercy".

Jesus Christ : Here is a link to a video that...

Fri, 10 Aug 2012 23:57:35 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/10/2012 at 11:57pm

Here is a link to a video that I think some might find interesting, maybe even helpful...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6474278760369344626

It's an interview by Richard Dawkins of Alister McGrath, a Christian theologian, for a TV documentary Dawkins filmed several years ago. I found it interesting, anyway.

God bless you.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by julius77 Originally...

Wed, 08 Aug 2012 23:30:47 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/08/2012 at 11:30pm

Originally posted by julius77

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by VermontRider

Originally posted by red_baron

you guys don't believe in Pyramid scams?

Of course they do, organized religion is one big pyramid scheme.
Who's at the top?
Have you seen the Vatican? Maybe some pictures on the internet of the vast priceless treasures they have there? Maybe google it. Looks like the top to me.
My question was rhetorical. We're talking about organized religion being a pyramid scheme, right? I don't see how organized religion in general, or the Catholic church specifically, fit into the standard definition of a pyramid scheme.

Jesus Christ : I got baptized in water 4 days...

Wed, 08 Aug 2012 00:22:22 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/08/2012 at 12:22am

I got baptized in water 4 days ago. Praise God for watching over me for 19 years of my life. :)

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by...

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 23:24:51 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/07/2012 at 11:24pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Passage of the day, from James 1-19:

"My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry"

Happy Friday everyone, enjoy your weekend!
That requires self-discipline, rationality and open-mindedness, among other things. [EDIT]Here are more to go along with that:
Psalm 34:8- O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.
Joshua 24 (the whole chapter)
Matthew 28:28-30- Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Tue, 07 Aug 2012 16:52:48 +0000
Author: julius77
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/07/2012 at 4:52pm

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by VermontRider

Originally posted by red_baron

you guys don't believe in Pyramid scams?

Of course they do, organized religion is one big pyramid scheme.
Who's at the top?

Have you seen the Vatican? Maybe some pictures on the internet of the vast priceless treasures they have there? Maybe google it. Looks like the top to me.

Jesus Christ : Passage of the day, from James...

Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:57:11 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/03/2012 at 1:57pm

Passage of the day, from James 1-19:

"My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry"

Happy Friday everyone, enjoy your weekend!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Not...

Fri, 03 Aug 2012 07:33:09 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/03/2012 at 7:33am

Originally posted by sgreen

Not sure what definition of 'real job' or 'ethics' you're using, but by any definition I'm aware of, working in a MLM is a real job. And since, according to you, "most MLM's are unethical", some are not. So, isn't the important question whether or not the company Slider works for (Melaleuca) is ethical?

By the way, where do your ethics come from?

I say "most" simply because if I say "all", the literal language police will say that I cannot possibly certify that 100% of MLMs are unethical. Slider has not provided a single point that shows what he is doing via Melaleuca is ethical.

Ethics come through natural evolution of society and through social norms.

My definition of "real job" is where you get paid for working. Not where you have to pay a fee before you can work for them.

MLMs are unethical because their primary pitch is telling you how much money you can make when they know FULL well that you have almost no chance of making any money at all. And, they also know FULL well that you will likely LOSE money.

Jesus Christ : ^^^ If slidur is hyping it then,...

Wed, 01 Aug 2012 14:45:26 +0000
Author: | | | bryman | | |
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/01/2012 at 2:45pm

^^^ If slidur is hyping it then, rest assured, it's a pyramid scheme. I question how that dude gets though life. Remember when God first sent him to the torture dentist but then fixed his grill? Good luck buddy!

-b

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Wed, 01 Aug 2012 14:37:22 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/01/2012 at 2:37pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by sgreen

[QUOTE=mech9t5]I don't know what's worse, getting brainwashed by fundamentalist religions, getting brainwashed by MLMs, or both at the same time!
Melaleuca is NOT an MLM company. true, we do have levels, but it isn't like a pyramid system at all. you think you know what this company is. and that's because of other companies that have messed up.

You are a "sales/marketing" person selling the company products and there are multiple levels (you get residuals from your downline). I'd say it is a classic definition of MLM.

From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing

Here's a few more questions:
1. Are you also encouraged to "market" to your friends/family/etc?
2. Do you have to buy the products you're selling up front?
3. Is there a minimum purchase you have to make to maintain your status?
4. Is there an initiation/enrollment fee?
5. Do you get bonuses for recruiting?

Answer yes to any of these, chances are you are involved in an MLM. Answer yes to ALL of these, then it is for sure an MLM.

Seriously, you should go get a real job that does not prey on the weak minded looking for get rich quick schemes. Most MLMs are unethical and it is likely jesus would not approve.
Not sure what definition of 'real job' or 'ethics' you're using, but by any definition I'm aware of, working in a MLM is a real job. And since, according to you, "most MLM's are unethical", some are not. So, isn't the important question whether or not the company Slider works for (Melaleuca) is ethical?

By the way, where do your ethics come from?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Wed, 01 Aug 2012 10:51:39 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Aug/01/2012 at 10:51am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by sgreen

[QUOTE=mech9t5]I don't know what's worse, getting brainwashed by fundamentalist religions, getting brainwashed by MLMs, or both at the same time!
Melaleuca is NOT an MLM company. true, we do have levels, but it isn't like a pyramid system at all. you think you know what this company is. and that's because of other companies that have messed up.

You are a "sales/marketing" person selling the company products and there are multiple levels (you get residuals from your downline). I'd say it is a classic definition of MLM.

From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing

Here's a few more questions:
1. Are you also encouraged to "market" to your friends/family/etc?
2. Do you have to buy the products you're selling up front?
3. Is there a minimum purchase you have to make to maintain your status?
4. Is there an initiation/enrollment fee?
5. Do you get bonuses for recruiting?

Answer yes to any of these, chances are you are involved in an MLM. Answer yes to ALL of these, then it is for sure an MLM.

Seriously, you should go get a real job that does not prey on the weak minded looking for get rich quick schemes. Most MLMs are unethical and it is likely jesus would not approve.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreenI...

Sun, 29 Jul 2012 08:32:39 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/29/2012 at 8:32am

Originally posted by sgreen

[QUOTE=mech9t5]I don't know what's worse, getting brainwashed by fundamentalist religions, getting brainwashed by MLMs, or both at the same time!
Melaleuca is NOT an MLM company. true, we do have levels, but it isn't like a pyramid system at all. you think you know what this company is. and that's because of other companies that have messed up.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by VermontRider Originally...

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:21:23 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/20/2012 at 2:21pm

Originally posted by VermontRider

Originally posted by red_baron

you guys don't believe in Pyramid scams?
Of course they do, organized religion is one big pyramid scheme.
Who's at the top?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5I...

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 14:09:42 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/20/2012 at 2:09pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

I don't know what's worse, getting brainwashed by fundamentalist religions, getting brainwashed by MLMs, or both at the same time!
Depends on your world view.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by red_baronyou...

Fri, 20 Jul 2012 08:39:47 +0000
Author: VermontRider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/20/2012 at 8:39am

Originally posted by red_baron

you guys don't believe in Pyramid scams?
Of course they do, organized religion is one big pyramid scheme.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardsliderplease...

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:23:23 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/19/2012 at 12:23pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

please just watch this video to understand where i'm coming from. im not trying to sell anyone on my company, i just want to clarify some misunderstandings.

you are clarifying perfectly. The excerpt in your quote clearly states "REFERRAL MARKETING" MLM.

I don't know what's worse, getting brainwashed by fundamentalist religions, getting brainwashed by MLMs, or both at the same time!

Jesus Christ : please just watch this video to...

Sat, 14 Jul 2012 06:42:21 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/14/2012 at 6:42am

please just watch this video to understand where i'm coming from. im not trying to sell anyone on my company, i just want to clarify some misunderstandings.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by red_baronyou...

Sat, 14 Jul 2012 06:31:15 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/14/2012 at 6:31am

Originally posted by red_baron

you guys don't believe in Pyramid scams?
can you guys do me a favor? before spouting off once more about what you THINK you know about my company, Melaleuca, i insist you go to the website, and watch any given video. watch a few videos for that matter. then tell me what you think. Frank Vandersloot founded Melaleuca with this motto, "that should say something about the company right their.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by ctomaI...

Sat, 14 Jul 2012 06:27:27 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/14/2012 at 6:27am

Originally posted by ctoma

I think God is telling you to join the Marines, too, as quickly as possible.
okay...i obviously know you are joking, but i can't figure out why.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Sat, 14 Jul 2012 06:25:33 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/14/2012 at 6:25am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

hey people, what's up? i haven't connected with you guys in a while. just wanted to share what God is doing in my life. 2 months ago, God blessed me with the opportunity to get involved with a business called Melaleuca: the wellness company. we sell eco friendly, 'green', chemical free, low cost, all natural products. we sell 350 items. it's truly an amazing business opportunity. i made $12.50 the first month for signing up one customer, and $80ish last month. this month there is an extra incentive to sign up 4 people and earn $500; 4 more earns $1000. Additionally, they have another promotion going to January in which i can earn $5000-10,000!(just a taste of our amazing benefits) now you may think that i'm trying to sell you right now, but i'm not. i'm just sharing how God has blessed me. i also feel that he is setting me up to go to the Marines as well. God is good...all the time!

I hope you didn't pay money to get into this MLM.
Many MLMs are highly unethical because they prey on less fortunate people.
Actually, it's not a MLM, or a pyramid scam. it's the best thing since sliced bread, and i'll be earning a few thousand dollars a month from it. i would have to show it to you honestly, for you to believe me. if you only knew what the company was about, you wouldn't say that.

Jesus Christ : you guys don't believe in...

Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:03:53 +0000
Author: red_baron
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/13/2012 at 8:03am

you guys don't believe in Pyramid scams?

Jesus Christ : I think God is telling you to...

Fri, 13 Jul 2012 08:00:32 +0000
Author: ctoma
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/13/2012 at 8:00am

I think God is telling you to join the Marines, too, as quickly as possible.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardsliderhey...

Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:45:26 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/13/2012 at 7:45am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

hey people, what's up? i haven't connected with you guys in a while. just wanted to share what God is doing in my life. 2 months ago, God blessed me with the opportunity to get involved with a business called Melaleuca: the wellness company. we sell eco friendly, 'green', chemical free, low cost, all natural products. we sell 350 items. it's truly an amazing business opportunity. i made $12.50 the first month for signing up one customer, and $80ish last month. this month there is an extra incentive to sign up 4 people and earn $500; 4 more earns $1000. Additionally, they have another promotion going to January in which i can earn $5000-10,000!(just a taste of our amazing benefits) now you may think that i'm trying to sell you right now, but i'm not. i'm just sharing how God has blessed me. i also feel that he is setting me up to go to the Marines as well. God is good...all the time!

I hope you didn't pay money to get into this MLM.
Many MLMs are highly unethical because they prey on less fortunate people.

Jesus Christ : hey people, what's up? i...

Thu, 12 Jul 2012 18:24:12 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/12/2012 at 6:24pm

hey people, what's up? i haven't connected with you guys in a while. just wanted to share what God is doing in my life. 2 months ago, God blessed me with the opportunity to get involved with a business called Melaleuca: the wellness company. we sell eco friendly, 'green', chemical free, low cost, all natural products. we sell 350 items. it's truly an amazing business opportunity. i made $12.50 the first month for signing up one customer, and $80ish last month. this month there is an extra incentive to sign up 4 people and earn $500; 4 more earns $1000. Additionally, they have another promotion going to January in which i can earn $5000-10,000!(just a taste of our amazing benefits) now you may think that i'm trying to sell you right now, but i'm not. i'm just sharing how God has blessed me. i also feel that he is setting me up to go to the Marines as well. God is good...all the time!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Thu, 12 Jul 2012 09:39:55 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/12/2012 at 9:39am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by robnezz23

“I am not what I ought to be, I am not what I want to be, I am not what I hope to be in another world; but still I am not what I once used to be, and by the grace of God I am what I am”
―John Newton
Ever read 'The Pilgrims Progress'? I HIGHLY recommend it. Some of Newton's sermons are still available, too.

[EDIT]Color me red. I got John Newton and John Bunyan mixed up. Oh, well. My suggestion stands, but it is completely unrelated to robnezz's post.

No worries.

On a different note, here is a good read about how to have a healthy schedule in your life. Confront the lies, and know the truth!

http://theresurgence.com/2012/06/18/rebuilding-a-healthy-schedule

Jesus Christ : God bless everyone on Independence...

Wed, 04 Jul 2012 00:08:43 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jul/04/2012 at 12:08am

God bless everyone on Independence Day. Something that came to mind while thinking about this blessed country we live in...

1Chronicles 7:11-22
11 ThusSolomon finished the house of the Lord, and the king's house: and all that cameinto Solomon's heart to make in the house of the Lord, and in his own house, heprosperously effected.
12 And theLord appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I have heard thy prayer,and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice.
13 If I shutup heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour theland, or if I send pestilence among my people;
14 If mypeople, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, andseek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven,and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
15 Now mineeyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer that is made in thisplace.
16 For nowhave I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever:and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.

A lot of folks are familiar with this first part of the passage, especially verse 14, but the next part is also important.

17 And asfor thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and doaccording to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes andmy judgments;
18 Then willI stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with Davidthy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.
19 But if yeturn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set beforeyou, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;
20 Then willI pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and thishouse, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, andwill make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.
21 And thishouse, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it;so that he shall say, Why hath the Lord done thus unto this land, and unto thishouse?
22 And itshall be answered, Because they forsook the Lord God of their fathers, whichbrought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, andworshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil uponthem.

And, finally...

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 â€œI...

Fri, 22 Jun 2012 10:22:06 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/22/2012 at 10:22am

Originally posted by robnezz23

“I am not what I ought to be, I am not what I want to be, I am not what I hope to be in another world; but still I am not what I once used to be, and by the grace of God I am what I am”
―John Newton
Ever read 'The Pilgrims Progress'? I HIGHLY recommend it. Some of Newton's sermons are still available, too.

[EDIT]Color me red. I got John Newton and John Bunyan mixed up. Oh, well. My suggestion stands, but it is completely unrelated to robnezz's post.

Jesus Christ : â€œI am not what I ought to...

Fri, 22 Jun 2012 08:35:21 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/22/2012 at 8:35am

“I am not what I ought to be, I am not what I want to be, I am not what I hope to be in another world; but still I am not what I once used to be, and by the grace of God I am what I am”
―John Newton

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslideri...

Sat, 16 Jun 2012 15:37:59 +0000
Author: GeckosGoMoo
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/16/2012 at 3:37pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

i find disturbing that 54% modify their belief in God, to adapt to Science(which He created).

I don't know why you find that disturbing. Religion thrives solely due to indoctrination. In this age of wide-spread information, it's becoming harder and harder to keep our children brainwashed into such closed belief systems. I think in the near future that 54% will be disturbing because it's such a low number.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreenGod...

Sat, 16 Jun 2012 15:12:35 +0000
Author: Angry Midget Yo
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/16/2012 at 3:12pm

Originally posted by sgreen

God bless all the dads out there and happy Father's Day tomorrow.

Thanks for the reminder, for some reason I thought it was next Sunday instead!

Jesus Christ : God bless all the dads out there...

Sat, 16 Jun 2012 14:38:48 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/16/2012 at 2:38pm

God bless all the dads out there and happy Father's Day tomorrow.

Jesus Christ : @rodnezz23 Thanks man. I really...

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:05:10 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/15/2012 at 12:05pm

@rodnezz23

Thanks man. I really needed the encouragement.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:14:45 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/15/2012 at 11:14am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by screwyvarmint

A new poll says 46% of Americans believe in creationism. I find that disturbing. Can't people accept science and modify their belief in God to fit the facts? At least that's less than a majority.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx
I'm curious, are you a member of the scientific community?
i find disturbing that 54% modify their belief in God, to adapt to Science(which He created).

Jesus Christ : Interesting... I didn't...

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:34:51 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/11/2012 at 10:34am

Interesting... I didn't know Pac-Man was a professing Christian

http://www.therecord.com/sports/article/740021--religious-awakening-helps-pacquiao-regain-control-of-life

Jesus Christ : Suffering is the space between...

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:20:39 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/11/2012 at 10:20am

Suffering is the space between our current circumstances and what our heart desires.

So, either change your circumstances or change your desires to end your suffering.  We often have the ability to do both, but changing your circumstances is often the easy way out. Don't give in people! The temporary satisfaction found in comfort can not and will not ever compare to the fullness and satisfaction you will find in Jesus.

This is encouragement to myself as much as it is to others that care to read it.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by screwyvarmintA...

Sat, 09 Jun 2012 08:34:57 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/09/2012 at 8:34am

Originally posted by screwyvarmint

A new poll says 46% of Americans believe in creationism. I find that disturbing. Can't people accept science and modify their belief in God to fit the facts? At least that's less than a majority.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx
I'm curious, are you a member of the scientific community?

Jesus Christ : I thought some might find...

Fri, 08 Jun 2012 19:04:42 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/08/2012 at 7:04pm

I thought some might find this interesting (the whole debate was interesting to listen to):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vw1Q3XsSbA&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL0FC933DD2CC082A1

There are several good debate vids of this sort worth watching and listening to on YouTube. I've learned a lot from listening to Dawkins, Hitchens, Lennox, Zacharias, and others.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by humbleroosterHumans...

Thu, 07 Jun 2012 23:28:04 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/07/2012 at 11:28pm

Originally posted by humblerooster

Humans evolved and God guided process... That is a weird statement. They contradict each other. The Bible says that God made humans and all the animals, so how can humans evolved from a germ to a blob to a monkey to a human with Gods aid...?
It's called compromise. Revelation 3:14-16 is the first passage that comes to my mind. 1Kings 18:21 & Joshua 24:15, also. Matthew 19:4 hints pretty strongly at Jesus' thoughts on the Creation.

Jesus Christ : Humans evolved and God guided...

Thu, 07 Jun 2012 19:50:14 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/07/2012 at 7:50pm

Humans evolved and God guided process... That is a weird statement. They contradict each other. The Bible says that God made humans and all the animals, so how can humans evolved from a germ to a blob to a monkey to a human with Gods aid...?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5From...

Thu, 07 Jun 2012 16:10:10 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/07/2012 at 4:10pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

From the poll, I find this very interesting...

Those With Postgraduate Education Least Likely to Believe in Creationist Explanation
Americans with postgraduate education are most likely of all the educational groups to say humans evolved without God's guidance, and least likely to say God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. The creationist viewpoint "wins" among Americans with less than a postgraduate education.
What do you find interesting about the quote?

Jesus Christ : I am postgraduate and I believe...

Thu, 07 Jun 2012 09:33:21 +0000
Author: )(nfinit)(
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/07/2012 at 9:33am

I am postgraduate and I believe in God. just a random FYI. cheers and thank you.

Jesus Christ : This is not a new finding......

Thu, 07 Jun 2012 09:21:13 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/07/2012 at 9:21am

This is not a new finding... I'm sure you could extrapolate upon that and come to the conclusion that, essentially, the smartest people don't believe in God or creationism. Or, to put it a different way, and more bluntly, stupid people believe in God. That seems like it's what you're trying to get at, and more broadly it seems that is the theme of the majority of your posts.

Here's something to ponder from the same chart: The 3 lower education levels have relatively little difference. (Remember there is a +/- 4% margin of error.) There is only a large observed difference when moving to the Postgraduate category. So the question for me becomes: Why?

What happens to people that get a Master's degree or PhD?

Could it be that academia is flooded with professors that are opposed to creationism? Possibly. Are students influenced by what their professors tell them? Certainly. Are these same students exposed to only a few opinions on one side of the story? Probably.

Jesus Christ : From the poll, I find this very...

Thu, 07 Jun 2012 08:34:53 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/07/2012 at 8:34am

From the poll, I find this very interesting...

Those With Postgraduate Education Least Likely to Believe in Creationist Explanation
Americans with postgraduate education are most likely of all the educational groups to say humans evolved without God's guidance, and least likely to say God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years. The creationist viewpoint "wins" among Americans with less than a postgraduate education.

Jesus Christ : What surprises me about the...

Wed, 06 Jun 2012 14:31:03 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/06/2012 at 2:31pm

What surprises me about the Gallup poll is that the existence of God is assumed. It leaves no room for any other option.
In another Gallup poll on their site, I noticed that Religious Americans Lead Healthier Lives. Just an interesting point of conversation perhaps...

ScrewyV - Which response would you have chosen? Which is the most "scientifically enlightened" response?
1.) Humans evolved, with God guiding
2.) Humans evolved, but God had no part in process
3.) God created humans in present form

Jesus Christ : A new poll says 46% of Americans...

Wed, 06 Jun 2012 13:38:19 +0000
Author: screwyvarmint
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/06/2012 at 1:38pm

A new poll says 46% of Americans believe in creationism. I find that disturbing. Can't people accept science and modify their belief in God to fit the facts? At least that's less than a majority.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx

Jesus Christ : Snowboarding is a great way to...

Wed, 06 Jun 2012 12:48:14 +0000
Author: Hominator1
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/06/2012 at 12:48pm

Snowboarding is a great way to bring out others who may not come to a "Bible Study" or other church event that could be intimidating. Just make sure you watch out for them, physically and spiritually!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen ^^Here's...

Wed, 06 Jun 2012 08:06:57 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/06/2012 at 8:06am

Originally posted by sgreen

^^Here's another: Sin will take you farther than you want to go, keep you longer than you want to stay, and cost you more than you want to pay.
word, i've heard that before. so basically, don't sin, cause it will mess you up...(duh)though it's impossible. thank God for his grace!

Jesus Christ : ^^Here's another: Sin will...

Mon, 04 Jun 2012 09:36:25 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/04/2012 at 9:36am

^^Here's another: Sin will take you farther than you want to go, keep you longer than you want to stay, and cost you more than you want to pay.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Favorite...

Mon, 04 Jun 2012 08:23:42 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/04/2012 at 8:23am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Favorite saying for the week:

Cheer up! You're worse than you think!

-Jack Miller, Founder of World Harvest Mission
I like that. a pastor i know says this often, "we are more evil than we will ever know, and more loved than we will ever believe."

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Fri, 01 Jun 2012 23:17:12 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jun/01/2012 at 11:17pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Here's a question, do you think jews believe in the same god as christians?
Go look it up.
I'll assume you mean religious Jews, not ethnic Jews, to which I answer 'no'. Christians believe in the Triune God, the Jews only believe in the first person of the Trinity. Remember, they crucified the Son.
"They" being jews crucified jesus. This is such a stupid statement. That's like saying, "remember, humans crucified jesus". Obviously humans don't think jesus was god. Did you forget jesus himself was a jew? The 12 apostles were jews?

Using the statement "jews crucified jesus" to prove that jews do not believe jesus is god is simply wrong.
Is there anything constructive or instructional I'm supposed to take away from your comments?

I'm not sure why you would think I was trying to "prove that jews do not believe jesus is god", since you only asked for my opinion. (Am I safe in assuming you understand the difference between proof and opinion?) You asked: do I think Jews worship the same God as Christians? Or, to phrase it the way I responded to it: do I think these two different religions, Judaism and Christianity, worship the same God? My statements were given to support my opinion.

By "Jews", I assumed you meant followers of Judaism. In the phrase I highlighted above, I made it clear that I was differentiating between religious Jews (followers of Judaism specifically) and ethnic Jews (who may or may not follow Judaism, or any other religion, for that matter), and comparing religion to religion. "They" are the leaders (Pharisees, Sadducees, etc.) of Judaism at that time. Considering your professed familiarity w/ the Bible, you've likely read Matthew 26-27, Mark 14-15, Luke 22-23, and John 18-19, so it seemed reasonable to expect you'd know who conspired to bring about the Lord's crucifixion and that that's who I was referring to.

Followers of Judaism rejected and crucified Jesus Christ then and today are still waiting for the Messiah to come. 2Corinthians 3:7-16.
Originally posted by mech9t5

"They" being jews crucified jesus. This is such a stupid statement. That's like saying, "remember, humans crucified jesus". ... Did you forget jesus himself was a jew? The 12 apostles were jews?
According to your logic, that's like asking, "Did you forget that Jesus himself was a human? The 12 apostles were human?". Since, in your opinion, my statement is stupid, are your questions also stupid?

Jesus Christ : I'm glad to see brothers...

Thu, 31 May 2012 15:10:28 +0000
Author: Hominator1
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/31/2012 at 3:10pm

I'm glad to see brothers and sisters coming together. Keep up God's good work!

Jesus Christ : @sgreen - I heard a preacher that...

Wed, 30 May 2012 10:42:23 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/30/2012 at 10:42am

@sgreen - I heard a preacher that about how people get influenced by what people talk about.
-Drugs
-Parties
-Drinking
-Sex

So why not talk more about Jesus in regular conversations in our day to day lives. It can be the beginning of more people coming to Christ.

Jesus Christ : Favorite saying for the week:Cheer...

Wed, 30 May 2012 10:14:26 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/30/2012 at 10:14am

Favorite saying for the week:

Cheer up! You're worse than you think!

-Jack Miller, Founder of World Harvest Mission

Jesus Christ : God is really blessing my...

Wed, 23 May 2012 19:07:04 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/23/2012 at 7:07pm

God is really blessing my life.(more like, i'm seeing it now) i'm getting involved in a company called Meleluca, sellling organic, eco friendly home products. i'm also selling Cutco again. teaming up with a friend, we will be an unstopable force for God.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Our...

Thu, 17 May 2012 21:58:34 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/17/2012 at 9:58pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Our God is an awesome God. He reigns from heaven above with wisdom, power, and love. Our God is an awesome God!
I like the melody of that song a lot, especially the chorus. I worked up a guitar solo to it several years ago. Haven't played it in quite awhile. Guess I'll have to see if I can dust it off...

@humblerooster (how'd you come by that handle?)-
Thanks for sharing. 2Thessalonians 1:2

Jesus Christ : I made it a goal to incorporate...

Thu, 17 May 2012 14:46:08 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/17/2012 at 2:46pm

I made it a goal to incorporate Jesus in my conversations when I can. I it has been such a blessing. This guy from school now tells me he is looking on amazon to buy a Bible and he asks me for advice on a good translation to start reading with. Just buy talking about Jesus, he can do work in other peoples lives. God Bless everyone.

Jesus Christ : Our God is an awesome God....

Thu, 17 May 2012 10:10:30 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/17/2012 at 10:10am

Our God is an awesome God. He reigns from heaven above with wisdom, power, and love. Our God is an awesome God!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Wed, 16 May 2012 14:03:51 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/16/2012 at 2:03pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

By what means do the many who "agree it is the same god" come to their conclusion? What is their evidence?
Go look it up. I am not gonna provide their evidence or how they came to their conclusion.
Who were you quoting?
Originally posted by mech9t5

And for my own conclusions, I have already stated what I've read on the 3 religions before. I've drawn my own conclusions as someone who is not biased by any of the 3. I find it pointless to provide those conclusions because a faith based argument masquerading as logic is simply futile.
I assumed your own conclusion was based on logic, not faith. Going on that assumption, I asked what evidence you based your logic upon, also assuming that your evidence would likely come from the two most logical sources: the Bible and the Koran. Since you claimed to be familiar w/ both books, I didn't think it would be much of a chore for you to list a few of the verses/passages that helped you form your unbiased conclusion.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreenBy...

Mon, 14 May 2012 07:50:58 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/14/2012 at 7:50am

Originally posted by sgreen

By what means do the many who "agree it is the same god" come to their conclusion? What is their evidence?

Go look it up. I am not gonna provide their evidence or how they came to their conclusion.

And for my own conclusions, I have already stated what I've read on the 3 religions before. I've drawn my own conclusions as someone who is not biased by any of the 3. I find it pointless to provide those conclusions because a faith based argument masquerading as logic is simply futile.

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Here's a question, do you think jews believe in the same god as christians?
Go look it up.
I'll assume you mean religious Jews, not ethnic Jews, to which I answer 'no'. Christians believe in the Triune God, the Jews only believe in the first person of the Trinity. Remember, they crucified the Son.

"They" being jews crucified jesus. This is such a stupid statement. That's like saying, "remember, humans crucified jesus". Obviously humans don't think jesus was god. Did you forget jesus himself was a jew? The 12 apostles were jews?

Using the statement "jews crucified jesus" to prove that jews do not believe jesus is god is simply wrong.

Jesus Christ : Hope all the moms had a good Mother's...

Sun, 13 May 2012 23:35:55 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/13/2012 at 11:35pm

Hope all the moms had a good Mother's Day today and I hope all the kids remembered their moms/step-moms/moms-in-law/mother figures/etc.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by screwyvarmintThis...

Sat, 12 May 2012 22:34:34 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/12/2012 at 10:34pm

Originally posted by screwyvarmint

This thread was totally buried, but it keeps rising from the dead. I'm sure someone will argue that's a sign. lol
dude, that totally made my day! love your sense of humor :) to bring about 'change' to the confusing debates goin down.

Jesus Christ : This thread was totally buried,...

Sat, 12 May 2012 01:06:17 +0000
Author: screwyvarmint
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/12/2012 at 1:06am

This thread was totally buried, but it keeps rising from the dead. I'm sure someone will argue that's a sign. lol

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Fri, 11 May 2012 23:33:49 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/11/2012 at 11:33pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Are you telling me you don't know about the trinity?????
Would you explain it to me, please?
Go look it up.
Tapping-out?
I don't need to look it up. I would like you to explain "jesus is the son of god is also god himself".
Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Muslims and Christians worship the SAME GOD. HOW and WHAT that god is described as is different.For example, I believe there are 48 states in the USA because hawaii and alaska don't count. You'd say, you're mentally challenged because there are 50 states in the USA because hawaii and alaska do count as shown by documentation/history. I am obviously wrong but my incorrect statement or belief does not exclude the fact that we both believe that the USA exists.
Then please show me, by "documentation/history" or whatever credible means you'd like, how you are able to draw that conclusion.
What conclusion? that the USA exists and that both are the same even though one person thinks there are only 48 states
I'll rephrase:
Then please show me, by "documentation/history" or whatever credible means you'd like, how you are able to draw the conclusion that Christians and Muslims worship the same God. On what evidence do you base your claim?
Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Same in this case. Muslims don't think Jesus is god doesn't mean they don't believe in the same god as christians.
Both Muslims and Christians will disagree w/ you. What you're saying is that you know the God of each religion better than they know their God themselves.
No. Not all muslims and christians disagree. Many agree it is the same god but they just disagree on what is the right path to god.
I'll repeat my question from the previous paragraph: By what means do the many who "agree it is the same god" come to their conclusion? What is their evidence?
Originally posted by mech9t5

Here's a question, do you think jews believe in the same god as christians?
Go look it up.
I'll assume you mean religious Jews, not ethnic Jews, to which I answer 'no'. Christians believe in the Triune God, the Jews only believe in the first person of the Trinity. Remember, they crucified the Son.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Fri, 11 May 2012 13:55:55 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/11/2012 at 1:55pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by robnezz23

Let me get this right. It sounds like you are saying:
A. since the Christian divine being consists of the three persons of the Trinity (#1. God the Father, #2. Jesus the Son, #3. the Holy Spirit), and
B. since Muslims worship a being who shares similarities** to #1 above,
this proves they worship the same divinity.
(**I think there are similarities but my knowledge of Islam is minimal. I think the claim being made is to equate the Muslim God with God the Heavenly Father of Christianity.)

A. Is an assumption. No proof of this whatsoever that god exists as 1, 2 or 3.
No need to go further.

I know that there is no proof to confirm or deny point A above. I wasn't trying to prove a point or debate anything, I was trying to extrapolate the logic you had used in your post and see if I had interpreted you correctly.

Besides, whether it's true or not is of no consequence. Your post referred to HOW and WHAT god is described as. Not what he actually is, because again there is no scientific proof.

So I guess what I was trying to get at is this. My question is: Are you equating the Muslim God with the Christian Heavenly Father? If not, I would like to know more about how you think that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. It's an interesting theory that, guess what (big surprise), also has no proof.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Fri, 11 May 2012 06:58:35 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/11/2012 at 6:58am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Are you telling me you don't know about the trinity?????
Would you explain it to me, please?

Go look it up.

Originally posted by sgreen


Originally posted by mech9t5

~~Muslims and Christians worship the SAME GOD.~~ HOW and WHAT that god is described as is different.For example, I believe there are 48 states in the USA because hawaii and alaska don't count. You'd say, you're mentally challenged because there are 50 states in the USA because hawaii and alaska do count as shown by documentation/history. I am obviously wrong but my incorrect statement or belief does not exclude the fact that we both believe that the USA exists.
Then please show me, by "documentation/history" or whatever credible means you'd like, how you are able to draw that conclusion.

What conclusion? that the USA exists and that both are the same even though one person thinks there are only 48 states?

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Same in this case. Muslims don't think Jesus is god doesn't mean they don't believe in the same god as christians.
Both Muslims and Christians will disagree w/ you. What you're saying is that you know the God of each religion better than they know their God themselves.

No. Not all muslims and christians disagree. Many agree it is the same god but they just disagree on what is the right path to god.

Here's a question, do you think jews believe in the same god as christians?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Let...

Fri, 11 May 2012 06:12:58 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/11/2012 at 6:12am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Let me get this right. It sounds like you are saying:
A. since the Christian divine being consists of the three persons of the Trinity (#1. God the Father, #2. Jesus the Son, #3. the Holy Spirit), and
B. since Muslims worship a being who shares similarities** to #1 above,
this proves they worship the same divinity.
(**I think there are similarities but my knowledge of Islam is minimal. I think the claim being made is to equate the Muslim God with God the Heavenly Father of Christianity.)

The only way this makes sense is if you don't think Jesus is divine, and probably more than that... if you don't think he's even important at all. Otherwise, it would be preposterous to make the claim you've made above.  It's like saying: #1 + #2 + #3 still equals #1.

We are called "Christians" in the echo of Jesus the Christ (a.k.a the Messiah, the Annointed One), and to propose that adding him as an object of worship changes nothing is totally and utterly absurd. You know better than that.

A. Is an assumption. No proof of this whatsoever that god exists as 1, 2 or 3.
No need to go further.

Jesus Christ : hey guys, just wanted to share...

Thu, 10 May 2012 17:00:02 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/10/2012 at 5:00pm

hey guys, just wanted to share how God came through for me. i did have a bit of doubt, not trusting him 100% to help me finish the english paper. with the help of my parents, i was able to get 4/5 pages done. i've also realized that school is not for me. maybe national guard...still praying for God's will!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5Are...

Thu, 10 May 2012 14:19:38 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/10/2012 at 2:19pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Are you telling me you don't know about the trinity?????
Would you explain it to me, please?
Originally posted by mech9t5

~~Muslims and Christians worship the SAME GOD.~~ HOW and WHAT that god is described as is different.For example, I believe there are 48 states in the USA because hawaii and alaska don't count. You'd say, you're mentally challenged because there are 50 states in the USA because hawaii and alaska do count as shown by documentation/history. I am obviously wrong but my incorrect statement or belief does not exclude the fact that we both believe that the USA exists.
Then please show me, by "documentation/history" or whatever credible means you'd like, how you are able to draw that conclusion.
Originally posted by mech9t5

Same in this case. Muslims don't think Jesus is god doesn't mean they don't believe in the same god as christians.
Both Muslims and Christians will disagree w/ you. What you're saying is that you know the God of each religion better than they know their God themselves.

Jesus Christ : Let me get this right. It...

Thu, 10 May 2012 14:10:32 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/10/2012 at 2:10pm

Let me get this right. It sounds like you are saying:
A. since the Christian divine being consists of the three persons of the Trinity (#1. God the Father, #2. Jesus the Son, #3. the Holy Spirit), and
B. since Muslims worship a being who shares similarities** to #1 above,
this proves they worship the same divinity.
(**I think there are similarities but my knowledge of Islam is minimal. I think the claim being made is to equate the Muslim God with God the Heavenly Father of Christianity.)

The only way this makes sense is if you don't think Jesus is divine, and probably more than that... if you don't think he's even important at all. Otherwise, it would be preposterous to make the claim you've made above.  It's like saying: #1 + #2 + #3 still equals #1.

We are called "Christians" in the echo of Jesus the Christ (a.k.a the Messiah, the Annointed One), and to propose that adding him as an object of worship changes nothing is totally and utterly absurd. You know better than that.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Thu, 10 May 2012 10:17:08 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/10/2012 at 10:17am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

jesus is the son of god is also god himself.

allah is god.

both are the same god. ~~however, it seems having faith in one is good while having faith in the other is bad even though they are the same god.~~
What do you mean when you say that "jesus is the son is also god himself"?

If the same people who say that Allah is God also say that Jesus is neither the Son nor God, but simply a prophet, how do you come to the conclusion that he is Allah? On what do you base your logic?

Are you telling me you don't know about the trinity?????

Muslims and Christians worship the SAME GOD. HOW and WHAT that god is described as is different.

For example, I believe there are 48 states in the USA because hawaii and alaska don't count. You'd say, you're mentally challenged because there are 50 states in the USA because hawaii and alaska do count as shown by documentation/history. I am obviously wrong but my incorrect statement or belief does not exclude the fact that we both believe that the USA exists.

Same in this case. Muslims don't think Jesus is god doesn't mean they don't believe in the same god as christians.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5jesus...

Thu, 10 May 2012 08:54:51 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/10/2012 at 8:54am

Originally posted by mech9t5

jesus is the son of god is also god himself.

allah is god.

both are the same god. ~~however, it seems having faith in one is good while having faith in the other is bad even though they are the same god.~~
What do you mean when you say that "jesus is the son is also god himself"?

If the same people who say that Allah is God also say that Jesus is neither the Son nor God, but simply a prophet, how do you come to the conclusion that he is Allah? On what do you base your logic?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by humblerooster Originally...

Thu, 10 May 2012 06:27:53 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/10/2012 at 6:27am

Originally posted by humblerooster

Originally posted by mech9t5

Last, I don't agree with this statement. Muslim faith is just as strong as christian faith (if not stronger). Guess what? The world isn't a better place.

That's because Muslims don't have Jesus Christ in their lives. God knows what you need before you even ask him, and if you need help on a paper, he knows that and I don't see a reason to feel bad about asking.

Why, would you feel bad?

then why bother even asking? god has a plan for you and already knows what you need before asking so what is the point? he already knows whether he will answer your prayer or not before you even do it. so it's not like praying for it will change his mind.

if you could change god's mind, would you not be greater than god? in the end there is no point praying for things at all.

you can pray to talk to god, like "hi god, i did a lot of work on my paper today. I feel like I really accomplished something." What's wrong with doing that? god still is part of your life in every way if you pray (ie. tell him) about everything. you don't have to ask for everything since he has already decided before hand what mark you will get on your paper or whether or not you even finish your paper.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by shing02 Originally...

Thu, 10 May 2012 06:14:42 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/10/2012 at 6:14am

Originally posted by shing02

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by humblerooster

Originally posted by mech9t5

Last, I don't agree with this statement. Muslim faith is just as strong as christian faith (if not stronger). Guess what? The world isn't a better place.

That's because Muslims don't have Jesus Christ in their lives.

Erm, yes they do. See the Wikipedia entry for "Jesus in Islam", which states:

The belief in Jesus (and all other messengers of God) is required in Islam, and a requirement of being a Muslim. The Quran mentions Jesus twenty-five times, more often, by name, than Muhammad.

I'll be more specific and clarify his entry for him: "That's because Muslims don't have Jesus Christ [at the center of] their lives." I think that was his intention anyway.
Muslims have a different person at the center of their religious/spiritual lives to guide them in everyday life.

wouldn't they still worship the same god? (like say, the father of jesus?) or is "allah" that different?

jesus is the son of god is also god himself.

allah is god.

both are the same god. however, it seems having faith in one is good while having faith in the other is bad even though they are the same god.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Thu, 10 May 2012 01:06:18 +0000
Author: shing02
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/10/2012 at 1:06am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by humblerooster

Originally posted by mech9t5

Last, I don't agree with this statement. Muslim faith is just as strong as christian faith (if not stronger). Guess what? The world isn't a better place.

That's because Muslims don't have Jesus Christ in their lives.

Erm, yes they do. See the Wikipedia entry for "Jesus in Islam", which states:

The belief in Jesus (and all other messengers of God) is required in Islam, and a requirement of being a Muslim. The Quran mentions Jesus twenty-five times, more often, by name, than Muhammad.

I'll be more specific and clarify his entry for him: "That's because Muslims don't have Jesus Christ [at the center of] their lives." I think that was his intention anyway.
Muslims have a different person at the center of their religious/spiritual lives to guide them in everyday life.

wouldn't they still worship the same god? (like say, the father of jesus?) or is "allah" that different?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapalooza Originally...

Wed, 09 May 2012 12:56:41 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/09/2012 at 12:56pm

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by humblerooster

Originally posted by mech9t5

Last, I don't agree with this statement. Muslim faith is just as strong as christian faith (if not stronger). Guess what? The world isn't a better place.

That's because Muslims don't have Jesus Christ in their lives.

Erm, yes they do. See the Wikipedia entry for "Jesus in Islam", which states:

The belief in Jesus (and all other messengers of God) is required in Islam, and a requirement of being a Muslim. The Quran mentions Jesus twenty-five times, more often, by name, than Muhammad.

I'll be more specific and clarify his entry for him: "That's because Muslims don't have Jesus Christ [at the center of] their lives." I think that was his intention anyway.
Muslims have a different person at the center of their religious/spiritual lives to guide them in everyday life.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by humblerooster Originally...

Wed, 09 May 2012 12:38:01 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/09/2012 at 12:38pm

Originally posted by humblerooster

Originally posted by mech9t5

Last, I don't agree with this statement. Muslim faith is just as strong as christian faith (if not stronger). Guess what? The world isn't a better place.

That's because Muslims don't have Jesus Christ in their lives.

Erm, yes they do. See the Wikipedia entry for "Jesus in Islam", which states:

The belief in Jesus (and all other messengers of God) is required in Islam, and a requirement of being a Muslim. The Quran mentions Jesus twenty-five times, more often, by name, than Muhammad.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5Last,...

Wed, 09 May 2012 11:58:03 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/09/2012 at 11:58am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Last, I don't agree with this statement. Muslim faith is just as strong as christian faith (if not stronger). Guess what? The world isn't a better place.

That's because Muslims don't have Jesus Christ in their lives. God knows what you need before you even ask him, and if you need help on a paper, he knows that and I don't see a reason to feel bad about asking.

Why, would you feel bad?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by Nire333At...

Wed, 09 May 2012 11:57:59 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/09/2012 at 11:57am

Originally posted by Nire333

At least he prays to God and fully believes that God will help him with his problems (no matter what they are). When all of us can do that and simply have FAITH, the world will be a better place.

My good brother, keep in mind that faith is not something we achieve or attain on our own or by any action we initiate. It, like everything else, is a gift from God. This is something that I have been pondering the last week or so, and the grace of God continues to blow my mind. God initiates and orchestrates it; he chooses to call us to him on his own timing, and according to his own will he reveals his truth to us.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God" - Ephesians 2:8

I usually don't throw up bible verses to help state my case, but now I've done it two days in a row. I'll not continue this trend unendingly, except for where appropriate, don't worry .

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by Nire333Are...

Wed, 09 May 2012 11:03:37 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/09/2012 at 11:03am

Originally posted by Nire333

Are we actually fighting about WHAT people are praying for?? At least they are putting their trust in the Lord.

I mean, if he would have said "God please give me the strength and courage to follow through on something incredibly bad (ex. Kill, or go directly against the commandments)", I could see the problem. But as I believe it this all started with a prayer to ask for guidance through a difficult paper??

You contradict yourself. You are saying we should not be fighting about what people pray for. Then you go on to say that if he prayed to kill people that would be a problem. So which is it?

Secondly, I did not say praying for trivial things is wrong. I asked if he FELT BAD praying for trivial things. You know there is a difference right?

Originally posted by Nire333

At least he prays to God and fully believes that God will help him with his problems (no matter what they are). When all of us can do that and simply have FAITH, the world will be a better place.

Last, I don't agree with this statement. Muslim faith is just as strong as christian faith (if not stronger). Guess what? The world isn't a better place.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Wed, 09 May 2012 10:55:19 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/09/2012 at 10:55am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

You quoted a passage in the bible and I interpreted it. If you don't agree you have to at least give me your interpretation instead of just saying you disagree.
No, sir, I don't, but if you'd like me to and you ask me nicely (), I'll have something for you eventually.

I don't really care that much. Just thought you were interested in discussing the passage since you put it up.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Is...

Mon, 07 May 2012 18:46:31 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/07/2012 at 6:46pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Is it still a sin if you are boasting about how good God has been to you? Now, I acknowledge there is a difference between boasting for the purposes of showing off (like if you have a nice car, a boat, 12 snowboards, etc...) and boasting for the purposes of giving God the glory. I guess that's what it comes down to: what is the aim of your boasting? If it's to magnify God's love, glory and goodness and done in a humble manner, then I would say it is OK. However, if the aim is to bring attention to yourself instead of to God, then that I would have a problem with.

From 1 Corinthians: ...as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

Just some food for thought.
Good choice. "What does God think?" is the important question we have to answer, and that verse (1Cor. 1:31 which is essentially repeated in 10:17) pretty well sums up his thoughts on boasting. There is good boasting and bad boasting. If boasting were wrong in every case, it would be wrong to glory in God, and the Bible, which boasts of God's goodness and greatness throughout, would oppose itself on that principle. The Father and the Son accepted boasting from one another. Matthew 3:17 is an example of the Father boasting on the Son. Jesus boasted of the Father at the close of the Lord's Prayer: "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."

Jesus Christ : Are we actually fighting about...

Mon, 07 May 2012 17:53:35 +0000
Author: Nire333
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/07/2012 at 5:53pm

Are we actually fighting about WHAT people are praying for?? At least they are putting their trust in the Lord.

"Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?" -Corinthians 6.2

I mean, if he would have said "God please give me the strength and courage to follow through on something incredibly bad (ex. Kill, or go directly against the commandments)", I could see the problem. But as I believe it this all started with a prayer to ask for guidance through a difficult paper??

At least he prays to God and fully believes that God will help him with his problems (no matter what they are). When all of us can do that and simply have FAITH, the world will be a better place.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5You...

Mon, 07 May 2012 14:23:56 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/07/2012 at 2:23pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

You quoted a passage in the bible and I interpreted it. If you don't agree you have to at least give me your interpretation instead of just saying you disagree.
No, sir, I don't, but if you'd like me to and you ask me nicely (), I'll have something for you eventually.

Jesus Christ : Is it still a sin if you are...

Mon, 07 May 2012 10:09:30 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/07/2012 at 10:09am

Is it still a sin if you are boasting about how good God has been to you? Now, I acknowledge there is a difference between boasting for the purposes of showing off (like if you have a nice car, a boat, 12 snowboards, etc...) and boasting for the purposes of giving God the glory. I guess that's what it comes down to: what is the aim of your boasting? If it's to magnify God's love, glory and goodness and done in a humble manner, then I would say it is OK. However, if the aim is to bring attention to yourself instead of to God, then that I would have a problem with.

From 1 Corinthians: ...as it is written, "Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord."

Just some food for thought.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider mech,...

Mon, 07 May 2012 07:01:30 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/07/2012 at 7:01am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

mech, you tried. i honestly found it entertaining how strange your logic was. not that i'm hatin, just appreciatin. however, it's wrong. there is no way i sinned by praying to God! that is a joke in of itself. you totally took that verse out of context. the basis of that verse is, if what you are doing is causing someone else to stumble, stop doing it. i am not for drinking, but some people believe that drinking is okay in moderation. example: my pastor used to have a glass of wine with dinner. when his non-christian co-workers asked what his thoughts were on drinking, he told the what he does, and they interprited that as "it's okay to get drunk". big difference. but that verse has NOTHING to do with praying to God, and the other confusing word twisting things you said.

I don't think the verse is out of context and there is no word twisting. The moral of that verse is that you should not do anything that will cause others to do what they think is wrong even though it is not.

This applies to ANYTHING you do.

Edit:
Also note, I didn't say you sinned for praying. I said that you could have sinned by boasting about what you got from god when you prayed for it.
1. It is a sin to boast
2. If by your boasting, it causes someone else to do something they think is wrong (ie pray for trivial things), you have sinned again.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Mon, 07 May 2012 06:55:55 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/07/2012 at 6:55am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

the knowledge referred to in this passage is the knowledge that god is THE GOD and jesus is THE LORD. The weak are the ones who do not possess this knowledge (they still believe in other gods and are sacrificing food to them).

the idol they refer to in this passage are false gods (not THE GOD or THE LORD). ~~That's why it is ok to eat the food sacrificed to these false gods.~~

The passage also goes on to say that you aren't doing anything wrong by eating this food but you ARE doing something wrong if you CAUSE someone with a weak mind (without knowledge of jesus being the only god) to eat the same food. That person with the weak mind still believes that the food is sacred but ate it anyway since he saw you eating it.

~~As it applies to praying for trivial things... I am going to guess at what sgreen is thinking...~~

It isn't wrong to pray ~~for trivial things~~ because the bible says god will fulfill all your needs and wants. In sgreen's eyes, the things he is praying for are not trivial since god promised he would provide.

In another person's eyes (say me), I might feel it is wrong to pray for such trivial things (I am weak because I do not possess the knowledge that god provides)... and if I am praying for trivial things cause sgreen did it, that means sgreen committed a sin. Sgreen should not be praying for trivial things if it causes me, someone who thinks it is wrong to pray for trivial things, to do it.

~~That means~~ snowboardslidur ~~can pray for trivial things but~~ shouldn't boast ~~about them and show everyone in case he causes someone who does not possess the knowledge to do something they think is wrong. otherwise snowboardslider has sinned.~~
Idol worship is sin, but "praying for trivial things" isn't. You stated earlier that trivial prayer is a human concept, not biblical. We don't decide what is/isn't sin. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for that very thing. Matthew 23

No one can be guilty of trivial prayer, because it doesn't exist (except in your mind). We are called to "cast all our cares upon him, for he cares for us". 1Peter 5

You may be onto something in the highlighted passage.
I think you just agreed with everything I said.
Not quite. In your first post above, the bolded parts are where I agree. The underlined parts are where I disagree in part. The parts I left alone I disagree with. The ~~lined-out~~ parts are either irrelevant or don't make sense.

You quoted a passage in the bible and I interpreted it. If you don't agree you have to at least give me your interpretation instead of just saying you disagree.

Jesus Christ : Its nice to see some people that...

Fri, 04 May 2012 16:20:55 +0000
Author: c_riley10
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/04/2012 at 4:20pm

Its nice to see some people that arent afraid to say they christians. You are some standup guys, keep up what you do

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by...

Fri, 04 May 2012 14:11:56 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/04/2012 at 2:11pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

the knowledge referred to in this passage is the knowledge that god is THE GOD and jesus is THE LORD. The weak are the ones who do not possess this knowledge (they still believe in other gods and are sacrificing food to them).

the idol they refer to in this passage are false gods (not THE GOD or THE LORD). ~~That's why it is ok to eat the food sacrificed to these false gods.~~

The passage also goes on to say that you aren't doing anything wrong by eating this food but you ARE doing something wrong if you CAUSE someone with a weak mind (without knowledge of jesus being the only god) to eat the same food. That person with the weak mind still believes that the food is sacred but ate it anyway since he saw you eating it.

~~As it applies to praying for trivial things... I am going to guess at what sgreen is thinking...~~

It isn't wrong to pray ~~for trivial things~~ because the bible says god will fulfill all your needs and wants. In sgreen's eyes, the things he is praying for are not trivial since god promised he would provide.

In another person's eyes (say me), I might feel it is wrong to pray for such trivial things (I am weak because I do not possess the knowledge that god provides)... and if I am praying for trivial things cause sgreen did it, that means sgreen committed a sin. Sgreen should not be praying for trivial things if it causes me, someone who thinks it is wrong to pray for trivial things, to do it.

~~That means~~ snowboardslidur ~~can pray for trivial things but~~ shouldn't boast ~~about them and show everyone in case he causes someone who does not possess the knowledge to do something they think is wrong. otherwise snowboardslider has sinned.~~
Idol worship is sin, but "praying for trivial things" isn't. You stated earlier that trivial prayer is a human concept, not biblical. We don't decide what is/isn't sin. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for that very thing. Matthew 23

No one can be guilty of trivial prayer, because it doesn't exist (except in your mind). We are called to "cast all our cares upon him, for he cares for us". 1Peter 5

You may be onto something in the highlighted passage.
I think you just agreed with everything I said.
Not quite. In your first post above, the bolded parts are where I agree. The underlined parts are where I disagree in part. The parts I left alone I disagree with. The ~~lined-out~~ parts are either irrelevant or don't make sense.

Jesus Christ : mech, you tried. i honestly...

Fri, 04 May 2012 07:38:28 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/04/2012 at 7:38am

mech, you tried. i honestly found it entertaining how strange your logic was. not that i'm hatin, just appreciatin. however, it's wrong. there is no way i sinned by praying to God! that is a joke in of itself. you totally took that verse out of context. the basis of that verse is, if what you are doing is causing someone else to stumble, stop doing it. i am not for drinking, but some people believe that drinking is okay in moderation. example: my pastor used to have a glass of wine with dinner. when his non-christian co-workers asked what his thoughts were on drinking, he told the what he does, and they interprited that as "it's okay to get drunk". big difference. but that verse has NOTHING to do with praying to God, and the other confusing word twisting things you said.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Thu, 03 May 2012 08:14:44 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/03/2012 at 8:14am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

the knowledge referred to in this passage is the knowledge that god is THE GOD and jesus is THE LORD. The weak are the ones who do not possess this knowledge (they still believe in other gods and are sacrificing food to them).

the idol they refer to in this passage are false gods (not THE GOD or THE LORD). That's why it is ok to eat the food sacrificed to these false gods.

The passage also goes on to say that you aren't doing anything wrong by eating this food but you ARE doing something wrong if you CAUSE someone with a weak mind (without knowledge of jesus being the only god) to eat the same food. That person with the weak mind still believes that the food is sacred but ate it anyway since he saw you eating it.

As it applies to praying for trivial things... I am going to guess at what sgreen is thinking...

It isn't wrong to pray for trivial things because the bible says god will fulfill all your needs and wants. In sgreen's eyes, the things he is praying for are not trivial since god promised he would provide.

In another person's eyes (say me), I might feel it is wrong to pray for such trivial things (I am weak because I do not possess the knowledge that god provides)... and if I am praying for trivial things cause sgreen did it, that means sgreen committed a sin. Sgreen should not be praying for trivial things if it causes me, someone who thinks it is wrong to pray for trivial things, to do it.

That means snowboardslidur can pray for trivial things but shouldn't boast about them and show everyone in case he causes someone who does not possess the knowledge to do something they think is wrong. otherwise snowboardslider has sinned.
Idol worship is sin, but "praying for trivial things" isn't. You stated earlier that trivial prayer is a human concept, not biblical. We don't decide what is/isn't sin. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for that very thing. Matthew 23

No one can be guilty of trivial prayer, because it doesn't exist (except in your mind). We are called to "cast all our cares upon him, for he cares for us". 1Peter 5

You may be onto something in the highlighted passage.

I think you just agreed with everything I said.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5the...

Wed, 02 May 2012 10:13:25 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/02/2012 at 10:13am

Originally posted by mech9t5

the knowledge referred to in this passage is the knowledge that god is THE GOD and jesus is THE LORD. The weak are the ones who do not possess this knowledge (they still believe in other gods and are sacrificing food to them).

the idol they refer to in this passage are false gods (not THE GOD or THE LORD). That's why it is ok to eat the food sacrificed to these false gods.

The passage also goes on to say that you aren't doing anything wrong by eating this food but you ARE doing something wrong if you CAUSE someone with a weak mind (without knowledge of jesus being the only god) to eat the same food. That person with the weak mind still believes that the food is sacred but ate it anyway since he saw you eating it.

As it applies to praying for trivial things... I am going to guess at what sgreen is thinking...

It isn't wrong to pray for trivial things because the bible says god will fulfill all your needs and wants. In sgreen's eyes, the things he is praying for are not trivial since god promised he would provide.

In another person's eyes (say me), I might feel it is wrong to pray for such trivial things (I am weak because I do not possess the knowledge that god provides)... and if I am praying for trivial things cause sgreen did it, that means sgreen committed a sin. Sgreen should not be praying for trivial things if it causes me, someone who thinks it is wrong to pray for trivial things, to do it.

That means snowboardslidur can pray for trivial things but shouldn't boast about them and show everyone in case he causes someone who does not possess the knowledge to do something they think is wrong. otherwise snowboardslider has sinned.
Idol worship is sin, but "praying for trivial things" isn't. You stated earlier that trivial prayer is a human concept, not biblical. We don't decide what is/isn't sin. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for that very thing. Matthew 23

No one can be guilty of trivial prayer, because it doesn't exist (except in your mind). We are called to "cast all our cares upon him, for he cares for us". 1Peter 5

You may be onto something in the highlighted passage.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapalooza Originally...

Wed, 02 May 2012 06:44:15 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/02/2012 at 6:44am

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by robnezz23

[COLOR="#0066cc">7[/COLOR">However, not all
possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat
food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.

Sgreen - Would you mind elaborating at all?

Yeah..... what? I too would like to know what idols and food have to do with praying for trivial things.

the knowledge referred to in this passage is the knowledge that god is THE GOD and jesus is THE LORD. The weak are the ones who do not possess this knowledge (they still believe in other gods and are sacrificing food to them).

the idol they refer to in this passage are false gods (not THE GOD or THE LORD). That's why it is ok to eat the food sacrificed to these false gods.

The passage also goes on to say that you aren't doing anything wrong by eating this food but you ARE doing something wrong if you CAUSE someone with a weak mind (without knowledge of jesus being the only god) to eat the same food. That person with the weak mind still believes that the food is sacred but ate it anyway since he saw you eating it.

As it applies to praying for trivial things... I am going to guess at what sgreen is thinking...

It isn't wrong to pray for trivial things because the bible says god will fulfill all your needs and wants. In sgreen's eyes, the things he is praying for are not trivial since god promised he would provide.

In another person's eyes (say me), I might feel it is wrong to pray for such trivial things (I am weak because I do not possess the knowledge that god provides)... and if I am praying for trivial things cause sgreen did it, that means sgreen committed a sin. Sgreen should not be praying for trivial things if it causes me, someone who thinks it is wrong to pray for trivial things, to do it.

That means snowboardslidur can pray for trivial things but shouldn't boast about them and show everyone in case he causes someone who does not possess the knowledge to do something they think is wrong. otherwise snowboardslider has sinned.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 <span...

Tue, 01 May 2012 14:49:48 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/01/2012 at 2:49pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

[COLOR="#0066cc">7[/COLOR">However, not all
possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat
food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.

Sgreen - Would you mind elaborating at all?

Yeah..... what? I too would like to know what idols and food have to do with praying for trivial things.

Jesus Christ : 7However, not all possess...

Tue, 01 May 2012 12:49:32 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: May/01/2012 at 12:49pm

7However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.

Sgreen - Would you mind elaborating at all?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Sun, 29 Apr 2012 00:16:37 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/29/2012 at 12:16am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

...

I am interested in knowing if people who pray for trivial things feel bad about it.
You presume that it is even possible to "pray for trivial things". Is that a biblical concept? Where do you get that idea?
Oh, sorry. Am I only allowed to presume god exists but the act of praying for trivial things can't exist?

Anyway, I thought it was known that trivial things are a human concept and since a human person is praying about trivial things (a known human concept), I was wondering if that human felt bad about praying for said trivial things.

And yes, I know what the bible says about god taking care of all your needs. However, it does not change the fact that some people might feel guilty praying for these trivial things. It also does not change the fact that they are praying for trivial things regardless of how god is willing to fulfill their prayers.
You'll find the answer to your question in 1 Corinthians 8, particularly verse 7.

Jesus Christ : Everybody dies eventually......

Fri, 27 Apr 2012 09:19:00 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/27/2012 at 9:19am

Everybody dies eventually...

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by kikko i...

Fri, 27 Apr 2012 07:03:42 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/27/2012 at 7:03am

Originally posted by kikko

i want my neighbor to die... should i pray for it? just wondering.

interesting. what if your neighbor prays not to die? Who's prayer wins?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by humbleroosterI...

Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:53:42 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/26/2012 at 1:53pm

Originally posted by humblerooster

I am getting Baptized this SUMMER. I am so excited. Praise God for the love he gives us everyday. And lets not forget the miracles he has done in our lives.

Congrats Rooster@!

Jesus Christ : i want my neighbor to die......

Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:48:28 +0000
Author: kikko
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/26/2012 at 11:48am

i want my neighbor to die... should i pray for it? just wondering.

Jesus Christ : I am getting Baptized this SUMMER....

Thu, 26 Apr 2012 10:40:01 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/26/2012 at 10:40am

I am getting Baptized this SUMMER. I am so excited. Praise God for the love he gives us everyday. And lets not forget the miracles he has done in our lives.

Jesus Christ :

Thu, 26 Apr 2012 09:12:23 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/26/2012 at 9:12am

Jesus Christ : If you guys are thinking about...

Mon, 23 Apr 2012 09:45:01 +0000
Author: red_baron
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/23/2012 at 9:45am

If you guys are thinking about it and feel like sendin up some prayers for my dad that would be appreciated.

His surgery started a few minutes ago and he is undergoing his second Total Hip Replacement.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:40:20 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/20/2012 at 1:40pm

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

...

I am interested in knowing if people who pray for trivial things feel bad about it.
You presume that it is even possible to "pray for trivial things". Is that a biblical concept? Where do you get that idea?

Oh, sorry. Am I only allowed to presume god exists but the act of praying for trivial things can't exist?

Anyway, I thought it was known that trivial things are a human concept and since a human person is praying about trivial things (a known human concept), I was wondering if that human felt bad about praying for said trivial things.

And yes, I know what the bible says about god taking care of all your needs. However, it does not change the fact that some people might feel guilty praying for these trivial things. It also does not change the fact that they are praying for trivial things regardless of how god is willing to fulfill their prayers.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5...I...

Thu, 19 Apr 2012 16:33:16 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/19/2012 at 4:33pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

...

I am interested in knowing if people who pray for trivial things feel bad about it.
You presume that it is even possible to "pray for trivial things". Is that a biblical concept? Where do you get that idea?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Thu, 19 Apr 2012 06:34:07 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/19/2012 at 6:34am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

...
I see god gave you a droid charge on Verizon 4G LTE and also gave you sgreen to help with your assignment.

do you feel bad for praying for such trivial things? I guess not or else you wouldn't do it.
Is this an attempt at irony or are you being serious?
I don't see any irony in my post.
Am I safe in assuming that you are serious? Aren't you what Richard Dawkins refers to as a Darwinian evolutionist: one who believes that the entire universe came into being through the process of evolution?

i would classify my post as sarcasm more than irony. though the second statement still applies no matter what I believe personally.

I am interested in knowing if people who pray for trivial things feel bad about it.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Wed, 18 Apr 2012 22:35:30 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/18/2012 at 10:35pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

...
I see god gave you a droid charge on Verizon 4G LTE and also gave you sgreen to help with your assignment.

do you feel bad for praying for such trivial things? I guess not or else you wouldn't do it.
Is this an attempt at irony or are you being serious?
I don't see any irony in my post.
Am I safe in assuming that you are serious? Aren't you what Richard Dawkins refers to as a Darwinian evolutionist: one who believes that the entire universe came into being through the process of evolution?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 19:58:19 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/16/2012 at 7:58pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by rurchan

Without us, He is still God
Without God, we are nothing

what makes you think we are anything different with or without god?

do you think association with god makes us something more? like the entourage of some famous person?
well, from my personal experience, i can say that God is my ever-present help in time of need. i had a paper that i had put off(as is the case with most students). God answered my prayers, pleas for help, and i got the remaining 2 pages done the day it was due. He helped me break through 'writer's block', pull my thoughts together, and write an amazing paper. this 'association with God' you talk about...i read a chapter in proverbs every morning, and a chapter in psalms at night. i desire to be more like Him, and to be wise , so i read proverbs; the book of the Bible full of wisdom. then at night i want to be more like Him, so i read a psalm, stating how amazing God is. our lives with God(the Christian life) should reflect the Love of Jesus. if we don't, well, we aren't really living for Him.(which is a lot harder than...anyway).

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 06:29:59 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/16/2012 at 6:29am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

...
I see god gave you a droid charge on Verizon 4G LTE and also gave you sgreen to help with your assignment.

do you feel bad for praying for such trivial things? I guess not or else you wouldn't do it.
Is this an attempt at irony or are you being serious?

I don't see any irony in my post.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by rurchanWithout...

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 06:25:40 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/16/2012 at 6:25am

Originally posted by rurchan

Without us, He is still God
Without God, we are nothing

what makes you think we are anything different with or without god?

do you think association with god makes us something more? like the entourage of some famous person?

Jesus Christ : Without us, He is still God Without...

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 15:06:09 +0000
Author: rurchan
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 3:06pm

Without us, He is still God
Without God, we are nothing

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 12:52:32 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 12:52pm

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

...
I see god gave you a droid charge on Verizon 4G LTE and also gave you sgreen to help with your assignment.
do you feel bad for praying for such trivial things? I guess not or else you wouldn't do it.
Is this an attempt at irony or are you being serious?

Yeah that was mean. It says that you can ask God for anything you need. If he needs help with an essay, why not pray about it?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 11:44:40 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 11:44am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

...
I see god gave you a droid charge on Verizon 4G LTE and also gave you sgreen to help with your assignment.

do you feel bad for praying for such trivial things? I guess not or else you wouldn't do it.
Is this an attempt at irony or are you being serious?

Jesus Christ : God sure has blessed me with...

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:09:06 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/12/2012 at 9:09am

God sure has blessed me with my new phone. but he blessed me by giving me work so i could pay for it, it didn't fall from the sky, no lie. i don't even try to stay fly. woah bro. enough time on this rhyme.
i don't "feel bad for praying for such trivial things". i believe that God cares for the pettiest parts of our sin-ridden lives. the Bible says that He will provide our needs and wants, and He has. He helped me finish that paper and turn it in on time!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Dear...

Wed, 11 Apr 2012 06:25:29 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/11/2012 at 6:25am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Dear fellow christians on this thread, I have a 3 page english paper due tomorrow, and so far I only have 1 page done. Could you guys pray for me, that God would help me be able to understand what I'm doing, be able to finish the paper, and that I can get a good grade. I usually get C's and D's, and I know that with God's help, anything is possible! Thanks guys, I'll post when God comes through.

Sent from my Droid Charge on Verizon 4G LTE

I see god gave you a droid charge on Verizon 4G LTE and also gave you sgreen to help with your assignment.

do you feel bad for praying for such trivial things? I guess not or else you wouldn't do it.

Jesus Christ : ^^What is your assignment? IM...

Mon, 09 Apr 2012 20:07:18 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/09/2012 at 8:07pm

^^What is your assignment? IM me, if you'd like, and I'll see if I can help.

Jesus Christ : Dear fellow christians on...

Mon, 09 Apr 2012 19:09:50 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/09/2012 at 7:09pm

Dear fellow christians on this thread, I have a 3 page english paper due tomorrow, and so far I only have 1 page done. Could you guys pray for me, that God would help me be able to understand what I'm doing, be able to finish the paper, and that I can get a good grade. I usually get C's and D's, and I know that with God's help, anything is possible! Thanks guys, I'll post when God comes through.

Sent from my Droid Charge on Verizon 4G LTE

Jesus Christ : Hoping everyone had a very good...

Sun, 08 Apr 2012 22:29:02 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/08/2012 at 10:29pm

Hoping everyone had a very good Easter.

And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. Matthew 28:5,6

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Galatians 2:20

Jesus Christ : People directly relate God with...

Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:33:24 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/03/2012 at 11:33am

People directly relate God with church. Don't get me wrong, church is a great blessing if the church brings you growth. But some church do fail and people abandon the love of God because a church did something "wrong".

God NEVER FAILS. Put your trust in him.

Jesus Christ : I thought this was an interesting...

Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:15:15 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/03/2012 at 11:15am

I thought this was an interesting quote from someone talking about charitable giving:

"... it is NOT how much you give, it is how much it costs you when you give." -JKL

It put me in mind of what the Lord said in Mark 12:41-44

Jesus Christ : For anyone interested in Christian...

Mon, 02 Apr 2012 08:40:08 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Apr/02/2012 at 8:40am

For anyone interested in Christian apologetics, here a couple of sites I came across recently:

http://johnlennox.org/index.php/en/resource/limitations_of_science/
http://www.rzim.org/
http://www.veritas.org/

Quote:"Someone once said that if you can argue someone into the Kingdom of God then someone can argue them out of it. I believe that we cannot change someone’s belief, just their understanding of the ‘facts’ of their belief. If their belief is weak then they will sway like a reed in the wind. If it’s strong then only divine revelation will change their minds/hearts.
Incidentally, that’s how all Christians became Christians. Not through their own understanding, intellect, knowledge or behaviours but through God’s divine influence on their live." Phillip Curtis

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by TTowncrazyFor...

Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:34:51 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/31/2012 at 9:34am

Originally posted by TTowncrazy

For all of you other christians out tbere looking for a good movie I recommend Beware Of Christians. Its a documentary about 4 college christian guys that travel around the world to visit new places and discover God outside of "religion". Its about finding who you are in christ and forgetting about how the church defines christianity. It can be a little slow at times but is loaded with good information and is pretty funny at times. Check it out!
dude, i'll totally check it out. that sounds really good.

Jesus Christ : For all of you other christians...

Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:54:42 +0000
Author: TTowncrazy
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/28/2012 at 9:54pm

For all of you other christians out tbere looking for a good movie I recommend Beware Of Christians. Its a documentary about 4 college christian guys that travel around the world to visit new places and discover God outside of "religion". Its about finding who you are in christ and forgetting about how the church defines christianity. It can be a little slow at times but is loaded with good information and is pretty funny at times. Check it out!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Anybody...

Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:10:15 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/28/2012 at 9:10pm

Originally posted by sgreen

Anybody hear much about Kirk Cameron's documentary Monumental: In Search of America's National Treasure? Here's a link to one article I've read:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1563402

It's purpose is to try to go back to the beginning of our nation, starting with the Pilgrims, and see what it was that led to America's becoming, as Cameron put it, "...the freest, most prosperous and blessed nation in human history". Another statement that caught my eye was this one from the end of the article: "Change does not start at the Oval Office; it begins at the dinner table teaching your children."

@slidur
Glad to hear about the encouragement you've received recently. Thanks for sharing.
i believe that second quote was from a president...but don't quote me on that, lol. thanks for the thanks.

Jesus Christ : Anybody hear much about Kirk...

Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:38:13 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/25/2012 at 8:38pm

Anybody hear much about Kirk Cameron's documentary Monumental: In Search of America's National Treasure? Here's a link to one article I've read:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=1563402

It's purpose is to try to go back to the beginning of our nation, starting with the Pilgrims, and see what it was that led to America's becoming, as Cameron put it, "...the freest, most prosperous and blessed nation in human history". Another statement that caught my eye was this one from the end of the article: "Change does not start at the Oval Office; it begins at the dinner table teaching your children."

@slidur
Glad to hear about the encouragement you've received recently. Thanks for sharing.

Jesus Christ : just wanted to share what...

Sat, 24 Mar 2012 21:16:50 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/24/2012 at 9:16pm

just wanted to share what God is doing in my life. i had been out of work, without a phone, college tuition coming up, and in need of a car. well, after praying, God brought someone into my life who i could work for and buy a pick up truck from in one week. this job will also pay for the phone and the college tuition...GOD IS GOOD!(even when we don't see how)

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Thu, 22 Mar 2012 09:13:10 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/22/2012 at 9:13am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by batmanwest

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by batmanwest

I can't blame her. Just watched the trailer, and read the "about"...holy hell that sounds like a really lame use of time.

Which part is really lame? Actually watching the video or the 40-day experiment?

That movie. It looks painfully lame. Don't know anything about the "40 day experiment"..I guess I would need to watch the movie to find out what the 40DE is all about.?

Some times people just shouldn't be married to each other. Some people just don't work well with each other and in my eyes, it would be better for them to split than try to force something that doesn't feel right.

Sure, marriage is work, you do have to put effort into it at times. But I have found that if the marriage is to the point where someone wants a divorce, it's usually better for both people to just end it, than spend the rest of their life with someone they don't truly love. There are just too many unhappy marriages out there..I just don't get it. Also, not trying to bash anyone, but I find the more religious the couple is, the more likely they are to hold on to a crumbling marriage and not be happy.

Thanks for responding BMW. The movie is, I would say, almost entirely about that 40DE.  And the point of the 40DE to me is to highlight a critical point: That emotion (read: love) flows from devotion. If you are truly devoted to your spouse through thick and thin, for better or worse, then from that will come feelings of love.

Because love, or being in love, is often not what holds marriages together. Love is a feeling, and you may not always feel in love. I don't, and I don't think anyone feels in love all the time. The fact is you are married to another human being who is just as flawed as you are. But just because the feeling of love has gone, does that make it OK to divorce? According to the most recited wedding vows, you are supposed to remain together for better or worse, in sickness and in health. There is no clause in there that says, "As soon as I don't feel love anymore, I'm out." For many marriages to last, there has to be something more steady anc constant than just a feeling (remember: feelings are fleeting), and that would be the devotion and forever-commitment that all wedding ceremonies speak of as an ideal, and this movie hopes to point out.
you are so right. it's unfortunate that people take love out of context. love is emotional, but it is also almost similar to a duty. call it the call of duty. lol. Biblical love is what's lacking in marriages. in 1 Corinthians 13, it's evident what love needs to be:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. ⁵ It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. ⁶ Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. ⁷ It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. ⁸ Love never fails."

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by batmanwest Originally...

Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:36:55 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/20/2012 at 9:36am

Originally posted by batmanwest

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by batmanwest

I can't blame her. Just watched the trailer, and read the "about"...holy hell that sounds like a really lame use of time.

Which part is really lame? Actually watching the video or the 40-day experiment?

That movie. It looks painfully lame. Don't know anything about the "40 day experiment"..I guess I would need to watch the movie to find out what the 40DE is all about.?

Some times people just shouldn't be married to each other. Some people just don't work well with each other and in my eyes, it would be better for them to split than try to force something that doesn't feel right.

Sure, marriage is work, you do have to put effort into it at times. But I have found that if the marriage is to the point where someone wants a divorce, it's usually better for both people to just end it, than spend the rest of their life with someone they don't truly love. There are just too many unhappy marriages out there..I just don't get it. Also, not trying to bash anyone, but I find the more religious the couple is, the more likely they are to hold on to a crumbling marriage and not be happy.

Thanks for responding BMW. The movie is, I would say, almost entirely about that 40DE.  And the point of the 40DE to me is to highlight a critical point: That emotion (read: love) flows from devotion. If you are truly devoted to your spouse through thick and thin, for better or worse, then from that will come feelings of love.

Because love, or being in love, is often not what holds marriages together. Love is a feeling, and you may not always feel in love. I don't, and I don't think anyone feels in love all the time. The fact is you are married to another human being who is just as flawed as you are. But just because the feeling of love has gone, does that make it OK to divorce? According to the most recited wedding vows, you are supposed to remain together for better or worse, in sickness and in health. There is no clause in there that says, "As soon as I don't feel love anymore, I'm out." For many marriages to last, there has to be something more steady anc constant than just a feeling (remember: feelings are fleeting), and that would be the devotion and forever-commitment that all wedding ceremonies speak of as an ideal, and this movie hopes to point out.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by batmanwest Originally...

Mon, 19 Mar 2012 13:00:10 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/19/2012 at 1:00pm

Originally posted by batmanwest

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by batmanwest

I can't blame her. Just watched the trailer, and read the "about"...holy hell that sounds like a really lame use of time.

Which part is really lame? Actually watching the video or the 40-day experiment?

That movie. It looks painfully lame. Don't know anything about the "40 day experiment"..I guess I would need to watch the movie to find out what the 40DE is all about.?

Some times people just shouldn't be married to each other. Some people just don't work well with each other and in my eyes, it would be better for them to split than try to force something that doesn't feel right.

Sure, marriage is work, you do have to put effort into it at times. But I have found that if the marriage is to the point where someone wants a divorce, it's usually better for both people to just end it, than spend the rest of their life with someone they don't truly love. There are just too many unhappy marriages out there..I just don't get it. Also, not trying to bash anyone, but I find the more religious the couple is, the more likely they are to hold on to a crumbling marriage and not be happy.
the more religious...religion doesn't hold marriages together, the love of God does. i know you might think it's all the same. but then you'd have to say that christianity is the same religion as the terrorists who performed 911...anyway, there's a survey out that analized marriages verses people who just live together. married people had better sex(oops, did i say that out loud, lol). AND Christian married people were above them. so, get married, and become a Christian, follow Jesus, and He will give you the desires of your heart.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Tue, 13 Mar 2012 12:05:55 +0000
Author: batmanwest
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/13/2012 at 12:05pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by batmanwest

I can't blame her. Just watched the trailer, and read the "about"...holy hell that sounds like a really lame use of time.

Which part is really lame? Actually watching the video or the 40-day experiment?

That movie. It looks painfully lame. Don't know anything about the "40 day experiment"..I guess I would need to watch the movie to find out what the 40DE is all about.?

Some times people just shouldn't be married to each other. Some people just don't work well with each other and in my eyes, it would be better for them to split than try to force something that doesn't feel right.

Sure, marriage is work, you do have to put effort into it at times. But I have found that if the marriage is to the point where someone wants a divorce, it's usually better for both people to just end it, than spend the rest of their life with someone they don't truly love. There are just too many unhappy marriages out there..I just don't get it. Also, not trying to bash anyone, but I find the more religious the couple is, the more likely they are to hold on to a crumbling marriage and not be happy.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by batmanwest I...

Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:33:35 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/13/2012 at 9:33am

Originally posted by batmanwest

I can't blame her. Just watched the trailer, and read the "about"...holy hell that sounds like a really lame use of time.

Which part is really lame? Actually watching the video or the 40-day experiment?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by VermontRider I...

Tue, 13 Mar 2012 09:28:32 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/13/2012 at 9:28am

Originally posted by VermontRider

I wish Satan would remix this song... too late.
[TUBE]6MUVNuD3MiU[/TUBE]

Those pants are off the hook.

Man, were the 80's and early 90's really that bad?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by VermontRider I...

Thu, 08 Mar 2012 17:05:30 +0000
Author: shreddog_123
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/08/2012 at 5:05pm

Originally posted by VermontRider

I wish Satan would remix this song... too late.
[TUBE]6MUVNuD3MiU[/TUBE]

i used to be able to dance and sing that good

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by rurchanmy...

Thu, 08 Mar 2012 10:02:21 +0000
Author: batmanwest
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/08/2012 at 10:02am

Originally posted by rurchan

my 2 friends are on the verge of getting a divorce. I told them about Fireproof and they both said they would watch it. But then the guy told me the girl refuses to watch it, I dunno why. I just hope she watches it or God speaks to her some how

I can't blame her. Just watched the trailer, and read the "about"...holy hell that sounds like a really lame use of time.

Is your friend (the girl) religious in any way?

EDIT: Oh, and if the movie is anything like the trailer, it's racist as "shtook"

Jesus Christ : my 2 friends are on the verge...

Thu, 08 Mar 2012 09:56:06 +0000
Author: rurchan
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/08/2012 at 9:56am

my 2 friends are on the verge of getting a divorce. I told them about Fireproof and they both said they would watch it. But then the guy told me the girl refuses to watch it, I dunno why. I just hope she watches it or God speaks to her some how

Jesus Christ : that vid is hilarious! totally...

Thu, 08 Mar 2012 09:01:29 +0000
Author: Von44
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/08/2012 at 9:01am

that vid is hilarious! totally made my day!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by VermontRider I...

Thu, 08 Mar 2012 08:49:46 +0000
Author: return2heaven
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/08/2012 at 8:49am

Originally posted by VermontRider

I wish Satan would remix this song... too late.
[TUBE]6MUVNuD3MiU[/TUBE]

wow that is just terrible lol, even if he is praising the lord...
thats the kind of kid that ends up trying out for american idol because everyone is telling him he has major talent, then he gets totally humiliated when they hit him with a dose of reality.

Jesus Christ : I wish Satan would remix this...

Thu, 08 Mar 2012 08:42:57 +0000
Author: VermontRider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/08/2012 at 8:42am

I wish Satan would remix this song... too late.
[TUBE]6MUVNuD3MiU[/TUBE]

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by shreddog_123thats...

Thu, 08 Mar 2012 08:17:17 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/08/2012 at 8:17am

Originally posted by shreddog_123

thats sweet! yeah look up party rock christian remix! thats good too

that goes without saying xD i love that one the best. "Praisin God is in the house tonight, everybody just raise Him on high. and we gon' praise Him till we die. everybody just have a good time." ;P

Jesus Christ : thats sweet! yeah look up party...

Wed, 07 Mar 2012 16:53:02 +0000
Author: shreddog_123
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/07/2012 at 4:53pm

thats sweet! yeah look up party rock christian remix! thats good too

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by shreddog_123^^...

Tue, 06 Mar 2012 21:26:18 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/06/2012 at 9:26pm

Originally posted by shreddog_123

^^ that is a good point. I do feel that Satan has a lot of power and he is definitely moving in the music made by secular artists. there is a spirit or deeper meaning to music i believe. the reason the music made by secular artists is so catchy and cool is because its drawing your senses in when you are unaware. i feel like i sound pretty crazy right now but i'm pretty sure you need to guard your heart when you listen to things like that or just not listen to them at all. I love Christian remixes too! i feel like music these days is so unintelligent. there's so many "mmms" and "awwsss" there's no words anymore. that's what makes music so meaningful... words. i always replace words in songs with stuff that has to do with jesus. haha i could sing them all day long like that.
Black 'n' Yellow. nuff said...what is he talking about. who cares, it's a cool beat man! lol. Christian remix to that song is HOT. dropp it cause you not, now ima bout to rot, like a bot with rust, to disgust the trust is a must like lust, gonna break in, call it a bust. random rap...lol "everything He do, He do it big"...check out black and yellow my good fellow

Jesus Christ : ^^ that is a good point. I do...

Mon, 05 Mar 2012 20:37:35 +0000
Author: shreddog_123
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/05/2012 at 8:37pm

^^ that is a good point. I do feel that Satan has a lot of power and he is definitely moving in the music made by secular artists. there is a spirit or deeper meaning to music i believe. the reason the music made by secular artists is so catchy and cool is because its drawing your senses in when you are unaware. i feel like i sound pretty crazy right now but i'm pretty sure you need to guard your heart when you listen to things like that or just not listen to them at all. I love Christian remixes too! i feel like music these days is so unintelligent. there's so many "mmms" and "awwsss" there's no words anymore. that's what makes music so meaningful... words. i always replace words in songs with stuff that has to do with jesus. haha i could sing them all day long like that.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by shreddog_123My...

Sun, 04 Mar 2012 18:44:48 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/04/2012 at 6:44pm

Originally posted by shreddog_123

My Youth pastor is doing a series called "finding God in the music" and it's really interesting. When you look at all the secular songs and artists, they are all screaming out for love and purpose, but they're turning to earthly pleasures to fill themselves. You could replace all the drug sex and money in songs with God and all those secular artists would be singing worship songs and love songs to God. its crazy.
What are his thoughts on the spirit behind the music?

Jesus Christ : Remember the folks who were...

Sun, 04 Mar 2012 16:33:40 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/04/2012 at 4:33pm

Remember the folks who were hit/affected by the tornadoes.

In the interest of balance, here's a link to a transcript of an interview w/Rick Warren in which he responds to the article I gave a link to earlier this week:

http://www.edstetzer.com/2012/03/rick-warren-interview-on-musli.html

Some of his comments raised questions in my mind, but I think Warren gives a good response to the idea that (he says) Christians and Muslims worship the same God:
1. The biblical doctrine of the Trinity demonstrates very clearly that Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God. [Jesus, being a part of the Godhead, is himself eternally God, which (according to Warren) also contradicts Islamic teaching.]

Warren also flatly denies any partnership, ecumenical or otherwise, between his church and a mosque. (It never occurred to me that just one side of the 'partnership' was interviewed for the earlier article)

His closing comments:
QUESTION: Are you promoting Chrislam?
WARREN: Of course not. It's the lie that won't die. No matter how many times we refute it and correct that lie, people keep passing it on as truth. Jesus is the only way to salvation. Period. If I didn't believe that, I'd get into much easier line of work! But I do believe that everybody needs Jesus and I am willing to put up with false statements and misunderstandings in order to get the Gospel out.
(This is the link to the earlier article: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/muslims-341669-warren-saddleback.html)

Jesus Christ : thats very interesting I've...

Sun, 04 Mar 2012 10:19:01 +0000
Author: TTowncrazy
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/04/2012 at 10:19am

thats very interesting I've never looked at secular music that way!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by shreddog_123My...

Sun, 04 Mar 2012 10:14:35 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/04/2012 at 10:14am

Originally posted by shreddog_123

My Youth pastor is doing a series called "finding God in the music" and it's really interesting. When you look at all the secular songs and artists, they are all screaming out for love and purpose, but they're turning to earthly pleasures to fill themselves. You could replace all the drug sex and money in songs with God and all those secular artists would be singing worship songs and love songs to God. its crazy.
DUDE! that's exactly how i look at it. expecially 'The Reason', and 'O.M.G.' love christian remixes. check out black n yellow, party rock. once you fond the right video, it's good quality.

Jesus Christ : My Youth pastor is doing a series...

Sun, 04 Mar 2012 10:05:26 +0000
Author: shreddog_123
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/04/2012 at 10:05am

My Youth pastor is doing a series called "finding God in the music" and it's really interesting. When you look at all the secular songs and artists, they are all screaming out for love and purpose, but they're turning to earthly pleasures to fill themselves. You could replace all the drug sex and money in songs with God and all those secular artists would be singing worship songs and love songs to God. its crazy.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by rurchanI...

Fri, 02 Mar 2012 20:53:04 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/02/2012 at 8:53pm

Originally posted by rurchan

I liked Fireproof and I'm currently trying to get 2 of my friends to watch it since they are on the verge of a divorce. I wanna see Courageous though. I heard good things about it
Courageous was a great movie. I saw it a while ago and am seeing it again this saturday(3-4-12), at our church. the movie is family themed. husband and wife, fathers and sons/daughters, and of course, God. absolutely amazing movie! i almost cried...i never cry. i saw it with my parents.(and i'm 20) A MUST SEE!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen I...

Fri, 02 Mar 2012 20:48:36 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/02/2012 at 8:48pm

Originally posted by sgreen

I thought this was an interesting quote from Ravi Zacharias-
   "What we are doing and the way we are thinking is symptomatic of what we are reading. If you read the right kinds of authors, they will shape you to think God’s thoughts after Him. I don’t want to be critical here but so much of our theology today is based more on the songs we sing than on the biblical text or the books we read. And that’s why so much of it reflects a kind of a jive or a dance or the happiness of it all. That’s not to be denied, but I think it conveys the impression that that’s all the Christian life is. Music is powerful and ought to reflect good thinking. But I’m afraid music helps shape our thinking rather than our thinking shaping the lyrics of our music. So I would say if we are going to win this battle in the West, we had better learn to read some of the great writers and great authors of history who will not rob us of the joy but will also give us the tremendous breadth of the Christian faith. This faith has a broad stroke brush but it all comes together in the person of Christ, who best represents for us what the abundant life is all about."

Here is a link to the full article from which this was taken:
http://www.rzim.org/justthinkingfv/tabid/602/articleid/11041/cbmoduleid/881/default.aspx
wow, that makes perfect sense. i don't understand why Christians feel the need or make excuses as to why they listen to secular music. they don't understand that what they put in, becomes who they are, especially through music. so, if you don't want to follow Christ and be a Christian, go ahead and listen to non-Christian musica.(en espanol...lol) ever heard of Skillet? a lot of their older music continues to captivate my interests. i want to draw closer to God, and their music really helps me do that. it feels like i'm talking to God.

Jesus Christ : I liked Fireproof and I'm...

Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:06:20 +0000
Author: rurchan
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/02/2012 at 5:06pm

I liked Fireproof and I'm currently trying to get 2 of my friends to watch it since they are on the verge of a divorce. I wanna see Courageous though. I heard good things about it

Jesus Christ : ^^ I completely agree with that!...

Fri, 02 Mar 2012 15:44:57 +0000
Author: shreddog_123
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/02/2012 at 3:44pm

^^ I completely agree with that! That guy is right on

Jesus Christ : I thought this was an interesting...

Fri, 02 Mar 2012 09:00:59 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/02/2012 at 9:00am

I thought this was an interesting quote from Ravi Zacharias-
   "What we are doing and the way we are thinking is symptomatic of what we are reading. If you read the right kinds of authors, they will shape you to think God’s thoughts after Him. I don’t want to be critical here but so much of our theology today is based more on the songs we sing than on the biblical text or the books we read. And that’s why so much of it reflects a kind of a jive or a dance or the happiness of it all. That’s not to be denied, but I think it conveys the impression that that’s all the Christian life is. Music is powerful and ought to reflect good thinking. But I’m afraid music helps shape our thinking rather than our thinking shaping the lyrics of our music. So I would say if we are going to win this battle in the West, we had better learn to read some of the great writers and great authors of history who will not rob us of the joy but will also give us the tremendous breadth of the Christian faith. This faith has a broad stroke brush but it all comes together in the person of Christ, who best represents for us what the abundant life is all about."

Here is a link to the full article from which this was taken:
http://www.rzim.org/justthinkingfv/tabid/602/articleid/11041/cbmoduleid/881/default.aspx

Jesus Christ : ^^ i hear ya bro! definitely in...

Thu, 01 Mar 2012 22:55:23 +0000
Author: shreddog_123
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/01/2012 at 10:55pm

^^ i hear ya bro! definitely in my prayers! “But remember that the temptations that come into your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will keep the temptation from becoming so strong that you can't stand up against it. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you will not give in to it.”
1 Corinthians 10:13 Stay strong man

Jesus Christ : Fighting temptation is one of...

Thu, 01 Mar 2012 13:23:45 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Mar/01/2012 at 1:23pm

Fighting temptation is one of the hardest things for me.
I want to build on my relationship with God, but I noticed temptation keeping me back.
Being tied down to the ways I lived before Jesus came into my life.
Pray for me guys.

Jesus Christ : hey guys you should check out...

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 23:44:54 +0000
Author: CalvaryCougar
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/29/2012 at 11:44pm

hey guys you should check out snowboarders for Christ which is a Christian ministry to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to other skiers and snowboarders. We need to be a witness to everyone but this a cool ministry for Christians who love to snowboard/ski.
http://sfc-usa.com/

Jesus Christ : I thought some might find this...

Wed, 29 Feb 2012 23:17:26 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/29/2012 at 11:17pm

I thought some might find this an interesting article:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/muslims-341669-warren-saddleback.html

John 4:23

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by t1npbo9whhat...

Tue, 28 Feb 2012 10:56:08 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/28/2012 at 10:56am

Originally posted by t1npbo9

whhat do you christians think about the burning of Qurans by US military personnel?

Who is doing this? Those high up?... or are we talking about those who are on the ground actually doing all the fighting?

It doesn't justify it, but they might be so angry that it happens in a fit of rage. If I'm trying to completely destroy my enemy and everything they stand for, I can see where a soldier would take that to mean destroying all symbols of what they stand for as well.
I have no military experience, so I can't say with any authority what happens or what kind of mental state those guys and gals get into when they're over there in the heat of battle.

Jesus Christ : I think its ridiculously uncalled...

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:52:36 +0000
Author: quiksilverkira
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/27/2012 at 11:52pm

I think its ridiculously uncalled for regardless of what religion you are. I don't get why you burn something a group regards as holy because you don't agree with it. Even if you are trying to make a statement against an extremest group that belongs to that religion. Every religion has it's crazy extremest but that doesn't justify insulting the entire religion by burning their holy book.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by t1npbo9whhat...

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:49:39 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/27/2012 at 11:49pm

Originally posted by t1npbo9

whhat do you christians think about the burning of Qurans by US military personnel?
Why did they do it?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by icymallardI...

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 23:41:37 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/27/2012 at 11:41pm

Originally posted by icymallard

I was raised in a fairly casual Protestant manner, these days I am probably more agnostic than protestant.

To be honest, I just do not believe in heaven and hell. No religion really offers any kind of solution to lack of faith, which is probably why I am so faithless.

I'm sure I'm not alone here...
I am just not so sure why the religious are so sure.
What do you mean by "solution" and who are the "religious" you refer to that are so sure? All religious people? Sure of what exactly?

Jesus Christ : whhat do you christians think...

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 14:33:34 +0000
Author: t1npbo9
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/27/2012 at 2:33pm

whhat do you christians think about the burning of Qurans by US military personnel?

Jesus Christ : I was raised in a fairly casual...

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 14:06:05 +0000
Author: icymallard
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/27/2012 at 2:06pm

I was raised in a fairly casual Protestant manner, these days I am probably more agnostic than protestant.

To be honest, I just do not believe in heaven and hell. No religion really offers any kind of solution to lack of faith, which is probably why I am so faithless.

I'm sure I'm not alone here...
I am just not so sure why the religious are so sure.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 13:20:28 +0000
Author: BoxStomper
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/27/2012 at 1:20pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by humblerooster

What is your guys favorite book in the bible, something that really spoke to you?

Romans. It's the most challenging, in-depth, and lenghty piece of Paul's theology. Almost every time I read a chapter of Romans, it just blows me away.
Romans 8 for me. all of it

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by humbleroosterWhat...

Mon, 27 Feb 2012 12:10:58 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/27/2012 at 12:10pm

Originally posted by humblerooster

What is your guys favorite book in the bible, something that really spoke to you?

Romans. It's the most challenging, in-depth, and lenghty piece of Paul's theology. Almost every time I read a chapter of Romans, it just blows me away.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider CORAGEOUS:...

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:44:04 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/26/2012 at 8:44pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

CORAGEOUS: what do you think about this movie?
I liked it a lot. Enough to buy a copy and share it. Have you seen it? If so, what did you think of it?

The same folks that made it also made Fireproof, Facing The Giants, and Flywheel, which was their first (and lowest budgeted) film. I liked all of them for different reasons, but I thought Courageous and Flywheel were the best of the group. I thought they did a good job of communicating the experience of the new birth.

I'm curious about October Baby. I've been hearing a lot of talk about it. It comes out next month.

1 John 4:9
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Jesus Christ : CORAGEOUS: what do you think...

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 13:14:54 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/26/2012 at 1:14pm

CORAGEOUS: what do you think about this movie?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by humblerooster Originally...

Sun, 26 Feb 2012 13:11:53 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/26/2012 at 1:11pm

Originally posted by humblerooster

Originally posted by Nire333

Originally posted by humblerooster

What is your guys favorite book in the bible, something that really spoke to you?

I don't know about book. But I always really enjoy reading through Psalms. Finding random little quotes really cheer me up sometimes.

I haven't read Psalms yet.. I need to get on that. I am reading through John right now. I really liked Judges, it shows how many times we betray God and how much he still loves us.
i like to read a proverb a day(or try to anyway)lots of nuggets on how to live a good life. not just spiritually, but in everything!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by Nire333 Originally...

Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:18:55 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/25/2012 at 12:18pm

Originally posted by Nire333

Originally posted by humblerooster

What is your guys favorite book in the bible, something that really spoke to you?

I don't know about book. But I always really enjoy reading through Psalms. Finding random little quotes really cheer me up sometimes.

I haven't read Psalms yet.. I need to get on that. I am reading through John right now. I really liked Judges, it shows how many times we betray God and how much he still loves us.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by humbleroosterWhat...

Fri, 24 Feb 2012 17:48:07 +0000
Author: Nire333
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/24/2012 at 5:48pm

Originally posted by humblerooster

What is your guys favorite book in the bible, something that really spoke to you?

I don't know about book. But I always really enjoy reading through Psalms. Finding random little quotes really cheer me up sometimes.

Jesus Christ : What is your guys favorite book...

Fri, 24 Feb 2012 17:37:30 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/24/2012 at 5:37pm

What is your guys favorite book in the bible, something that really spoke to you?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 12:45:43 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/21/2012 at 12:45pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by CalvaryCougar

Its a movie about Christian snowboarders and presents a message of the gospel. I probably should have just posted a link the first time.
Here is the site: Nationsfilms.com

Here is the full movie
http://vimeo.com/2679009

And here is the preview for their next
http://vimeo.com/33175373

Their movie has dave downing, eric willett, andy finch, kelly clark, and jj johnson in it.

Cool bro, thanks!

Yeah this is sweet. Ill definitely check it out.
Thanks for the post.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by CalvaryCougarIts...

Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:52:54 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/21/2012 at 8:52am

Originally posted by CalvaryCougar

Its a movie about Christian snowboarders and presents a message of the gospel. I probably should have just posted a link the first time.
Here is the site: Nationsfilms.com

Here is the full movie
http://vimeo.com/2679009

And here is the preview for their next
http://vimeo.com/33175373

Their movie has dave downing, eric willett, andy finch, kelly clark, and jj johnson in it.
Cool bro, thanks!

Jesus Christ : Don't know how many of...

Mon, 20 Feb 2012 20:50:41 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/20/2012 at 8:50pm

Don't know how many of you are aware of this, but I'll go ahead and share something I received in an email. The passage is part of an Action Alert from the American Family Association:
   Last September, we asked you to pray and ask Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to request the Iranian government stop any attempt to execute Pastor Youcef Nadarkhani and to offer asylum to him and his family.
   When asked to "repent" by Iranian judges, Youcef stated, "Repent means to return. What should I return to? To the blasphemy that I had before my faith in Christ?" The judges replied, "To the religion of your ancestors, Islam." To which he replied, "I cannot."
   At last report, Pastor Youcef remains in prison and is awaiting judgment by the Iranian government. Still, Pastor Youcef faces execution any day.
                               ___________________________________
Here are some related articles I found:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/prayer-working-for-imprisoned-iranian-pastor-youcef-nadarkhani-66296/
http://presenttruthmn.com/the-ministry/youcef-nadarkhani/
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-09-30/middleeast/world_meast_iran-christian-pastor_1_violent-crimes-apostasy-execution?_s=PM:MIDDLEEAST
God bless y'all.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Sun, 19 Feb 2012 17:15:53 +0000
Author: CalvaryCougar
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/19/2012 at 5:15pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by CalvaryCougar

has any body here seen the nations foundation movie? its on their site
Just a head's-up. I attempted to go to the site and as the page began to load an anonymous malware alert came up and requested permission to begin a scan of my system. It didn't give me the option of rejecting it, so I just closed the page and it went away immediately. Thought I'd let y'all know.

What's the nations foundation movie about?

Its a movie about Christian snowboarders and presents a message of the gospel. I probably should have just posted a link the first time.
Here is the site: Nationsfilms.com

Here is the full movie
http://vimeo.com/2679009

And here is the preview for their next
http://vimeo.com/33175373

Their movie has dave downing, eric willett, andy finch, kelly clark, and jj johnson in it.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Thu, 16 Feb 2012 07:19:30 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/16/2012 at 7:19am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by CalvaryCougar

has any body here seen the nations foundation movie? its on their site
Just a head's-up. I attempted to go to the site and as the page began to load an anonymous malware alert came up and requested permission to begin a scan of my system. It didn't give me the option of rejecting it, so I just closed the page and it went away immediately. Thought I'd let y'all know.

What's the nations foundation movie about?

Jesus Christ : Out of curiosity, did both incidents...

Thu, 16 Feb 2012 06:58:17 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/16/2012 at 6:58am

Out
of curiosity, did both incidents take place at the same school?
In my school we have Bible Study in the school at lunch, which is pretty cool.[/QUOTE]
1st - yeah, same school(university).
2nd - cool dude, great multitasking balance between lunch and devo. keep it up!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:00:26 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/15/2012 at 11:00pm

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by snowboardslider

I was wrong. though my intentions were good, they
came out all wrong. i made that comment after watching a video produced
by 'Stand Up U'(university). these students recieved a lot of flack
from their non aggresive stand. they had a pro-life poster and the
police came, and they were thrown into jail. meanwhile, a muslim mother
was allowed to come into the school building under the terms of,
'culture day', and teach the class about islam. that's why i was mad.
the slightest stand by Christianity gets shut down, and yet islam can
walk right in and present itself. if they would allow the muslim woman,
they should at least guarentee Christianity the same rights.
Out
of curiosity, did both incidents take place at the same school?

It is said that the world is going to stand against the truth. But this is really sad... But also expected in a way.
In my school we have Bible Study in the school at lunch, which is pretty cool.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardsliderI...

Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:50:06 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/15/2012 at 10:50pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

I was wrong. though my intentions were good, they came out all wrong. i made that comment after watching a video produced by 'Stand Up U'(university). these students recieved a lot of flack from their non aggresive stand. they had a pro-life poster and the police came, and they were thrown into jail. meanwhile, a muslim mother was allowed to come into the school building under the terms of, 'culture day', and teach the class about islam. that's why i was mad. the slightest stand by Christianity gets shut down, and yet islam can walk right in and present itself. if they would allow the muslim woman, they should at least guarentee Christianity the same rights.
Out of curiosity, did both incidents take place at the same school?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:00:25 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/15/2012 at 7:00pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by snowboardslider

[QUOTE=melikman29]keep your religion in your house.
ya know...if the Christians said the same thing to muslims coming to and perverting America, or to gays...not good. we have freedom in America, and this thread is a continuation of thet. if people can be homosexual and open about it, and muclims can teach their garbage in schools, then i think this mild expression of Christianity should be more than okay.

You consider that a "mild" expression of Christianity?

What about the garbage Christians try to teach in schools? What about the perversion of America that Christianity causes? Oh wait, maybe Christianity isn't a perversion of america since america was already perverted to begin with.
I was wrong. though my intentions were good, they came out all wrong. i made that comment after watching a video produced by 'Stand Up U'(university). these students recieved a lot of flack from their non aggresive stand. they had a pro-life poster and the police came, and they were thrown into jail. meanwhile, a muslim mother was allowed to come into the school building under the terms of, 'culture day', and teach the class about islam. that's why i was mad. the slightest stand by Christianity gets shut down, and yet islam can walk right in and present itself. if they would allow the muslim woman, they should at least guarentee Christianity the same rights.

Jesus Christ : This seems like a good follow-up...

Wed, 15 Feb 2012 07:27:54 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/15/2012 at 7:27am

This seems like a good follow-up Verse of the Day to the previous one I posted-

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 1st John 4:10

Propitiation- relating to an appeasing or expiating, having placating or expiating force, expiatory; a means of appeasing or expiating, a propitiation
used of the cover of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of Holies, which was sprinkled with the blood of the expiatory victim on the annual day of atonement (this rite signifying that the life of the people, the loss of which they had merited by their sins, was offered to God in the blood as the life of the victim, and that God by this ceremony was appeased and their sins expiated); hence the lid of expiation, the propitiatory
an expiatory sacrifice
a expiatory victim
Definition is from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance Online- http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/hilasterion.html

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by CalvaryCougarhas...

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:09:21 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/14/2012 at 10:09pm

Originally posted by CalvaryCougar

has any body here seen the nations foundation movie? its on their site
Just a head's-up. I attempted to go to the site and as the page began to load an anonymous malware alert came up and requested permission to begin a scan of my system. It didn't give me the option of rejecting it, so I just closed the page and it went away immediately. Thought I'd let y'all know.

Jesus Christ : Sgreen: That is one of my favorite...

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 20:28:07 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/14/2012 at 8:28pm

Sgreen: That is one of my favorite quotes. Its so deep in feeling and really shows us to be loving people to everyone as Jesus did when he gave him self us for the world.

Jesus Christ : @vermontrider How does that picture...

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 19:58:55 +0000
Author: CalvaryCougar
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/14/2012 at 7:58pm

@vermontrider

How does that picture have anything to do with what Jesus said?

Matthew 25:31-40
   31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
   34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

   37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

   40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
NIV

Jesus Christ : has any body here seen the nations...

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 19:52:56 +0000
Author: CalvaryCougar
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/14/2012 at 7:52pm

has any body here seen the nations foundation movie? its on their site

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:28:55 +0000
Author: derbytownjoe
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/14/2012 at 8:28am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Speaking of spam. You should really be editing your last post rather than making a new one if it's only been a few minutes since you last wrote something and no one else has said anything in the meantime. You can do that by selecting "post options" on your post and then choosing "edit post".
ok, thanks, will do!(is is bad taste to respond to several posts at the same time, even if they are all relevant?)

yea it is fairly frowned upon.
if you cant get all of your thoughts and responses into one post, you can still come back and click on post options and edit post, and just edit your original post.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapalooza Originally...

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:01:13 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/14/2012 at 8:01am

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by snowboardslider

why was the comment left by, scubba32steve, "what kind of snowboard do you think Jesus has", marked as spam? if it were up to me i wouldn't mark a comment as spam, unless it were really offensive, and even then...as long as they aren't putting random things(unrelating)on the blog, i don't mind. it's the people who post things totally unrelated that deserve the SPAM. in my oppinion. if you marked it as spam, tell me why. i am truly interested, as the comment obviously offended you.

I think it was marked as spam because he appears to have been posting lots of comments that he has not been putting much thought into. So in this case, it might not have been deserved, but I suppose he just went a little too far in the other threads and whoever was checking for spam just marked all of his posts.

Speaking of spam. You should really be editing your last post rather than making a new one if it's only been a few minutes since you last wrote something and no one else has said anything in the meantime. You can do that by selecting "post options" on your post and then choosing "edit post".
ok, thanks, will do!(is is bad taste to respond to several posts at the same time, even if they are all relevant?)

Jesus Christ : A great Verse of the Day-A new...

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:52:29 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/13/2012 at 10:52pm

A great Verse of the Day-

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13: 34-35

"As I have loved you..."

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by VermontRider Originally...

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 00:36:50 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/13/2012 at 12:36am

Originally posted by VermontRider

Originally posted by robnezz23

I love Jesus. He was the perfect King, Priest, and Prophet. I strive to live as he lived. Thank God for his love, mercy and forgiveness, but also his perfect justice.

What is the point of the picture of Dave Chapelle?

Kidding aside, please explain the point of the clip as a response to robnezz's statement. Do you have a real point to make?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider why...

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:05:54 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/12/2012 at 2:05pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

why was the comment left by, scubba32steve, "what kind of snowboard do you think Jesus has", marked as spam? if it were up to me i wouldn't mark a comment as spam, unless it were really offensive, and even then...as long as they aren't putting random things(unrelating)on the blog, i don't mind. it's the people who post things totally unrelated that deserve the SPAM. in my oppinion. if you marked it as spam, tell me why. i am truly interested, as the comment obviously offended you.

I think it was marked as spam because he appears to have been posting lots of comments that he has not been putting much thought into. So in this case, it might not have been deserved, but I suppose he just went a little too far in the other threads and whoever was checking for spam just marked all of his posts.

Speaking of spam. You should really be editing your last post rather than making a new one if it's only been a few minutes since you last wrote something and no one else has said anything in the meantime. You can do that by selecting "post options" on your post and then choosing "edit post".

Jesus Christ : why was the comment left by,...

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:51:45 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/12/2012 at 1:51pm

why was the comment left by, scubba32steve, "what kind of snowboard do you think Jesus has", marked as spam? if it were up to me i wouldn't mark a comment as spam, unless it were really offensive, and even then...as long as they aren't putting random things(unrelating)on the blog, i don't mind. it's the people who post things totally unrelated that deserve the SPAM. in my oppinion. if you marked it as spam, tell me why. i am truly interested, as the comment obviously offended you.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by lette...

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:45:44 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/12/2012 at 1:45pm

Originally posted by letterandnumber

[/QUOTE]basic
basically. that verse is hard to analyze, and many people have interprited it to be a passive statement. but i think it means that when someone offends you, let it go, and you will be able to befriend them, and hopefully lead them to Christ. i have personally found out that, sometimes, when i am insulted in conversation, if i respond with a loving response, they will either be shocked and not say anything, or they will respond nicely back. it puts out their fire. almost as if they took a hard blow. expecting a harch comment back, but not getting one.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapalooza Originally...

Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:10:24 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/12/2012 at 10:10am

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by snowboardslider

my parents recieved $4,500 back from college tuition.(Obama actually did something for America...

Then you should thank Obama. Clearly he had more to do with this than God. Unless God was working through him, which would make him a vessel of God. Something to ponder.
actually, God does use people, working through them to perform his will. Alexander the Great fulfilled Bibical prophecy, and he didn't even know it!
i am very grateful that Obama gave us(college students)that refund. it helped us out a lot. i do respect him because God says to in the Bible, but i wish he had different views on abortion. and i don't understand how he claims to be a Christian when the Bible is clear that abortion is wrong. However, i'm not hatin, i'm appreciatin'.

Jesus Christ : What kind of snowboard do I think...

Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:24:45 +0000
Author: scuba32steve
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/11/2012 at 6:24pm

What kind of snowboard do I think Jesus has

Jesus Christ :

Sat, 11 Feb 2012 17:26:26 +0000
Author: letterandnumber
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/11/2012 at 5:26pm

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslidermy...

Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:55:14 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/10/2012 at 2:55pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

my parents recieved $4,500 back from college tuition.(Obama actually did something for America...

Then you should thank Obama. Clearly he had more to do with this than God. Unless God was working through him, which would make him a vessel of God. Something to ponder.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by batmanwest Originally...

Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:39:14 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/10/2012 at 2:39pm

Originally posted by batmanwest

Originally posted by snowboardslider

i believe you are trying to imply that God cares more about helping Americans with insignificant things, than "feeding Africa". God loves us so much as to care for our insignificance, and he is somewhat limited by how willing we are to do his will. God usually works through people. did you know, that there is enough food in the world, that, if distributed, would feed the world?

Not going to get caught up in this again, ..., but I'm going to come off that way.

Why should we really worry about Africa, and many, many other nations in the sh___, when we have MANY of our own people starving, going without proper health care and treatment in our own country? I want to help the next person as much as the next (well..maybe, maybe not) but I think for the next 10 years every country should worry about itself. I feel we send out far too many dollars to other nations, while forgetting our own. Sorry that people keep living and breeding in areas of the world that shouldn't support life...but somehow do, but this endless cycle of shit needs to end. Harsh? ... yeah I am being harsh, but someone has to. I greatly fear for the future of the world. Over population is my biggest concern, and I find most people of "faith" tend to have the largest families. Generalization? Yuuup.

Oh, and slider, I think the point of the photo is more of a generalization of how people thank and pray to god to "help" them with personal trials, that, when compared to the rest of the worlds problems comes off pretty trite and pathetic. At least in my eyes it does.
What do you envision happening to those countries that are unable to fend for themselves for the next 10 years? You've complained before about religion being shoved down your throat, but, based on your suggestion, it sounds as though you want to shove extinction down the throat of "nations in the sh___".

Do you use the same "in the sh___" valuation for Americans also?

Have you ever lost your car keys before? If you have, how did you feel when you found them? Thankful? If thanking God for helping me find my lost keys, or for success in the workplace, is trite and pathetic, what can I legitimately thank God for? Helping me find my lost wallet or checkbook? My lost child? Anything?

Jesus Christ : Oh, and slider, I think the...

Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:28:25 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/10/2012 at 8:28am

Oh, and slider, I think the point of the photo is more of a generalization of how people thank and pray to god to "help" them with personal trials, that, when compared to the rest of the worlds problems comes off pretty trite and pathetic. At least in my eyes it does.
right, don't know how i didn't see that. xDxD too often people take verses out of context, especially the one about God giving you the desires of your heart. they don't understand that God is not a Genie. he won't just bless you with a million dollars or whatever, if your heart isn't right. like if you just want it for selfish reasons. so now, instead of praying such prayers(as i kow i have in the past),I try praying that God work through me for his purposes. and also that i can be obedient with the small things so he can bless me with more. EXAMPLE: for about a month, i've been attending college, and trying to work with a friend, who hasn't had work for me. however, i have been faithful to God in obedience and my parents recieved $4,500 back from college tuition.(Obama actually did something for America...besides kill babies and have taxpayer's money to back it up)so now i can go to Elk mountain.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider i...

Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:47:43 +0000
Author: batmanwest
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/09/2012 at 1:47pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

i believe you are trying to imply that God cares more about helping Americans with insignificant things, than "feeding Africa". God loves us so much as to care for our insignificance, and he is somewhat limited by how willing we are to do his will. God usually works through people. did you know, that there is enough food in the world, that, if distributed, would feed the world?

Not going to get caught up in this again, and I don't want to sound like a total jackass, but I'm going to come off that way.

Why should we really worry about Africa, and many, many other nations in the shitter, when we have MANY of our own people starving, going without proper health care and treatment in our own country? I want to help the next person as much as the next (well..maybe, maybe not) but I think for the next 10 years every country should worry about itself. I feel we send out far too many dollars to other nations, while forgetting our own. Sorry that people keep living and breeding in areas of the world that shouldn't support life...but somehow do, but this endless cycle of shit needs to end. Harsh? Hell yeah I am being harsh, but someone has to. I greatly fear for the future of the world. Over population is my biggest concern, and I find most people of "faith" tend to have the largest families. Generalization? Yuuup.

Oh, and slider, I think the point of the photo is more of a generalization of how people thank and pray to god to "help" them with personal trials, that, when compared to the rest of the worlds problems comes off pretty trite and pathetic. At least in my eyes it does.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider ...

Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:26:29 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/09/2012 at 1:26pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

did you know, that there is enough food in the world, that, if distributed, would feed the world?

Right. It's not Jesus' fault that children are starving. It's the gluttonous and selfish hoarding ways.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by VermontRider Originally...

Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:17:28 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/09/2012 at 11:17am

Originally posted by VermontRider

Originally posted by robnezz23

I love Jesus. He was the perfect King, Priest, and Prophet. I strive to live as he lived. Thank God for his love, mercy and forgiveness, but also his perfect justice.

i believe you are trying to imply that God cares more about helping Americans with insignificant things, than "feeding Africa". God loves us so much as to care for our insignificance, and he is somewhat limited by how willing we are to do his will. God usually works through people. did you know, that there is enough food in the world, that, if distributed, would feed the world?

Jesus Christ : I don't know what's...

Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:39:41 +0000
Author: LittleShooey
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/09/2012 at 9:39am

I don't know what's more of a circlejerk, the thread or it's constant anti-Christian backlash.

Jesus Christ : What's your point? There's...

Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:39:30 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/09/2012 at 9:39am

What's your point? There's no justice in this world. I know that. But I also believe that this world is not all that there is.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 I...

Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:30:52 +0000
Author: VermontRider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/09/2012 at 9:30am

Originally posted by robnezz23

I love Jesus. He was the perfect King, Priest, and Prophet. I strive to live as he lived. Thank God for his love, mercy and forgiveness, but also his perfect justice.

Jesus Christ : I love Jesus. Hewas the perfect...

Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:23:43 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/09/2012 at 9:23am

I love Jesus. He was the perfect King, Priest, and Prophet. I strive to live as he lived. Thank God for his love, mercy and forgiveness, but also his perfect justice.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by VermontRider Originally...

Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:45:30 +0000
Author: meterma1d
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/09/2012 at 7:45am

Originally posted by VermontRider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

"I think it's funny how people talk about how Atheists try to push their belief on everyone. How many Atheists go on "Missions" to convert people who don't believe what they do?" - vermont rider

some atheists,(not all), just shout out dumb, untrue, statements about Christianity. same as Christians shouting out unequally tru statements about atheists, or people of other religions. while i personally believe that Jesus Christ came, lived, and died for my sins, i won't shove it down peoples throaghts(sorry, don't know how to spell that. xD). or say random garbage about some other religion.

"[snip] if muclims can teach their garbage in schools" - snowboardslidur
A little contradictory...

[TUBE]rX7wtNOkuHo[/TUBE]

[TUBE]YKUOB8MN4Kc[/TUBE]

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:03:13 +0000
Author: VermontRider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/09/2012 at 7:03am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

"I think it's funny how people talk about how Atheists try to push their belief on everyone. How many Atheists go on "Missions" to convert people who don't believe what they do?" - vermont rider

some atheists,(not all), just shout out dumb, untrue, statements about Christianity. same as Christians shouting out unequally tru statements about atheists, or people of other religions. while i personally believe that Jesus Christ came, lived, and died for my sins, i won't shove it down peoples throaghts(sorry, don't know how to spell that. xD). or say random garbage about some other religion.

"[snip] if muclims can teach their garbage in schools" - snowboardslidur

A little contradictory...
[TUBE]rX7wtNOkuHo[/TUBE]

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider "I...

Thu, 09 Feb 2012 06:47:35 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/09/2012 at 6:47am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

"I think it's funny how people talk about how Atheists try to push their belief on everyone. How many Atheists go on "Missions" to convert people who don't believe what they do?" - vermont rider

some atheists,(not all), just shout out dumb, untrue, statements about Christianity. same as Christians shouting out unequally tru statements about atheists, or people of other religions. while i personally believe that Jesus Christ came, lived, and died for my sins, i won't shove it down peoples throaghts(sorry, don't know how to spell that. xD). or say random garbage about some other religion.

"[snip] if muclims can teach their garbage in schools" - snowboardslidur

A little contradictory...

Jesus Christ : "I think it's funny...

Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:51:52 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/08/2012 at 12:51pm

"I think it's funny how people talk about how Atheists try to push their belief on everyone. How many Atheists go on "Missions" to convert people who don't believe what they do?" - vermont rider

some atheists,(not all), just shout out dumb, untrue, statements about Christianity. same as Christians shouting out unequally tru statements about atheists, or people of other religions. while i personally believe that Jesus Christ came, lived, and died for my sins, i won't shove it down peoples throaghts(sorry, don't know how to spell that. xD). or say random garbage about some other religion.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by VermontRider...I...

Wed, 01 Feb 2012 23:41:07 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/01/2012 at 11:41pm

Originally posted by VermontRider

...

I think it's funny how people talk about how Atheists try to push their belief on everyone. How many Atheists go on "Missions" to convert people who don't believe what they do?
If I was on an airplane and the guy next to me opened a Bible, the last thing I would do is open my mouth and talk to him. ...
Is it the manner of presentation of the Gospel you object to or the Gospel itself? It sounds to me as though you are saying you think it's fine for an atheistic minority (FFRF) to impose its will on the rest of society through the court system, but freely presenting the message of the Gospel directly to individuals and allowing them to freely choose for themselves to accept or reject it is somehow objectionable.

Nice straw man, by the way. [edited]

Jesus Christ : btw christian snowboarders should...

Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:26:17 +0000
Author: CalvaryCougar
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/01/2012 at 10:26pm

btw christian snowboarders should check out Snowboarders for Christ and the Nations Foundation...both are Christian snowboard/skiier ministrys

Jesus Christ : I am also a Christian snowboarder....

Wed, 01 Feb 2012 22:24:35 +0000
Author: CalvaryCougar
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/01/2012 at 10:24pm

I am also a Christian snowboarder.

Just wanted to say something really quick.
People will rely on anything to excuse them from being accountable before a Perfect and Holy God. The Bible tells us this.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
"3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

I think its funny how those who say Christianity is made up believe that evolution and natural selection could create all we see today. The only thing they have to rely on is the millions of supposed years. They dont believe the Bible but can believe that a frog can turn into a human.

I love seeing the mountians and viewing all that God has created it reminds me of this verse.
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" Romans 1:20

And one more thing, those who ask us Christians why we attempt to witness to others let me ask you a question. If you knew a train was walking on train tracks and you knew that a train was coming would you do everything you could to try to tell them to get off the tracks?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by MTpowit's...

Wed, 01 Feb 2012 12:12:23 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/01/2012 at 12:12pm

Originally posted by MTpow

it's not called chance.... it's called evolution. i'm in the same boat as VR.. i would never start up a conversation with someone bc they are holding some religious book... i have however been on the receiving end of some soap-boxy attempts on the airplane...too which i respond by putting on my headphones and attempting to fall asleep
If you say that evolution is not the result of chance, aren't you implying that there is an external force controlling evolution?

Jesus Christ : it's not called chance.......

Wed, 01 Feb 2012 10:31:06 +0000
Author: MTpow
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/01/2012 at 10:31am

it's not called chance.... it's called evolution. i'm in the same boat as VR.. i would never start up a conversation with someone bc they are holding some religious book... i have however been on the receiving end of some soap-boxy attempts on the airplane...too which i respond by putting on my headphones and attempting to fall asleep

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Yo...

Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:45:23 +0000
Author: VermontRider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/01/2012 at 9:45am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Yo peoples, I'm reading a devotional made by a comedian...Rich Praytor. So if you don't mind, i'd like to share today's with you(not like you could object anyway :-)

A man carrying a bible boards an airplane and sits next to an atheist. The moon opens up his bible and begins to read. the atheist glances at the bible, looks straight ahead then snickers loudly.
The bible-reading man turns to him and says, "Is there something wrong?"
The atheist replies, "that book is nothing but made-up stories. Do you really believe everything in that book?"
"Well, yeah."
"Do you really believe that Moses parted the Red Sea?" The atheist asked.
"Of course I do." "Well, what about that guy jonah- do you really believe he was in the belly of a whale for three days and three nights?"
"Yes," the man said.
"Well, how did he do it? The atheist countered.
"I don't know," the man replied. "But I'll tell you what: when I get to heaven, I'll ask him."
"What if he's not in heaven?" The atheist asked.
"Then you can ask him."

words to live by

"What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is with us whenever we pray to Him?" Dueteronomy 4:7

just some ideas

For some reason, atheists are passionate about what they believe . . . Or don't believe. I just don't get it. They want to prove to everyone that there is no God and we are all here by chance.
Have you ever met one of these people? You tell them you go to church and explode into a rant about how religion has been the cause of every war it's just an institution to control people.

I think it's funny how people talk about how Atheists try to push their belief on everyone. How many Atheists go on "Missions" to convert people who don't believe what they do?
If I was on an airplane and the guy next to me opened a Bible, the last thing I would do is open my mouth and talk to him. You'd risk them saying stupid shit like what's in this thread.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by JDiggidy Originally...

Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:22:09 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Feb/01/2012 at 9:22am

Originally posted by JDiggidy

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by derbytownjoe

(Joe's photo removed)
ha ha! that's funny. it pokes fun at the unspiritual Westburo Baptists. it's a shame when people take their freedomm to bad things like that. and then people think that that's what Christians are...

I'm glad you pointed out the unspiritualness of the WBs. Unfortunately, their breed of hate (yes, I do call it hate) has rubbed off on so many other religious wack jobs out there, that I have given up on the whole lot of it. Using the Bible as a lawful book of morals is just plain wrong to me. It should be a spiritual course... a guidebook if you will IMO.

side note: I don't think your "comedian" guy understands Entropy.
yeah, he also said he found his wife on eHarmony... the Bible is a guide, given to us by God of how we should live, not just righteously, but just good ideas in general. then you have people like WB who twist things into what they are not. have you seen them on youtube/TV? the interviews are the worst. all they do is make statements about their 'faith' without answering the question...(Obama)oops, did i let that one slip xD but fo real. God says we must honor people in athourity, so i do. even if i don't agree with his views on abortion or homosexuality.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:40:32 +0000
Author: JDiggidy
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/31/2012 at 10:40am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by derbytownjoe

(Joe's photo removed)
ha ha! that's funny. it pokes fun at the unspiritual Westburo Baptists. it's a shame when people take their freedomm to bad things like that. and then people think that that's what Christians are...

I'm glad you pointed out the unspiritualness of the WBs. Unfortunately, their breed of hate (yes, I do call it hate) has rubbed off on so many other religious wack jobs out there, that I have given up on the whole lot of it. Using the Bible as a lawful book of morals is just plain wrong to me. It should be a spiritual course... a guidebook if you will IMO.

side note: I don't think your "comedian" guy understands Entropy.

Jesus Christ : Yo peoples, I'm reading...

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:24:28 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/31/2012 at 10:24am

Yo peoples, I'm reading a devotional made by a comedian...Rich Praytor. So if you don't mind, i'd like to share today's with you(not like you could object anyway :-)

PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

With hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, fires, severe thunderstorms and earthquakes tearing up the country from one end to another, are we sure this is a good time for taking God out of the pledge of allegiance? - JAY LENO

A man carrying a bible boards an airplane and sits next to an atheist. The moon opens up his bible and begins to read. the atheist glances at the bible, looks straight ahead then snickers loudly.
The bible-reading man turns to him and says, "Is there something wrong?"
The atheist replies, "that book is nothing but made-up stories. Do you really believe everything in that book?"
"Well, yeah."
"Do you really believe that Moses parted the Red Sea?" The atheist asked.
"Of course I do." "Well, what about that guy jonah- do you really believe he was in the belly of a whale for three days and three nights?"
"Yes," the man said.
"Well, how did he do it? The atheist countered.
"I don't know," the man replied. "But I'll tell you what: when I get to heaven, I'll ask him."
"What if he's not in heaven?" The atheist asked.
"Then you can ask him."

words to live by

"What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the LORD our God is with us whenever we pray to Him?" Dueteronomy 4:7

just some ideas

For some reason, atheists are passionate about what they believe . . . Or don't believe. I just don't get it. They want to prove to everyone that there is no God and we are all here by chance.
Have you ever met one of these people? You tell them you go to church and explode into a rant about how religion has been the cause of every war it's just an institution to control people.
I don't want to make fun of atheist people . . . but here we go!
Now they want to take the "under God" out of the pledge of allegiance.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for witch it stands, one nation...

Under a blue sky

Formed by chance

Through a random process of organization

Against incalcuable odds

And in complete oppositon to the laws of physics, probability, and entropy

Paying no attention to our forefathers who founded our country on Christian principals

Without the aid or direction of any higher power

And for no reason whatsoever

Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 09:27:31 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/31/2012 at 9:27am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Oh wait, maybe Christianity isn't a perversion of america since america was already perverted to begin with.
What is this an expression of?
what do you think? i thought it was obvious
Thanks, but I don't much care to answer my own questions. Also, what was America perverted from and what perverted it?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 09:07:28 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/31/2012 at 9:07am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Oh wait, maybe Christianity isn't a perversion of america since america was already perverted to begin with.
What is this an expression of?

what do you think? i thought it was obvious
yeah, i caught it too. it's obviously making fun of those CRAZY West Buro Baptist "Christians". they are a small group of people(around a hundred or so) comprised of their family who goes to funerals of dead soldiers and shout things like "God Haters Fags" and "thank God for POW's". i hope people can see the difference between them and real Christians. as a Christian i strive to love all people. it doesn't always happen, but by God's grace it does.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 07:17:50 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/31/2012 at 7:17am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Oh wait, maybe Christianity isn't a perversion of america since america was already perverted to begin with.
What is this an expression of?

what do you think? i thought it was obvious

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by derbytownjoe ha...

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:31:36 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/30/2012 at 4:31pm

Originally posted by derbytownjoe

ha ha! that's funny. it pokes fun at the unspiritual Westburo Baptists. it's a shame when people take their freedomm to bad things like that. and then people think that that's what Christians are...

Jesus Christ :

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:24:33 +0000
Author: derbytownjoe
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/30/2012 at 3:24pm

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5Oh...

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:16:41 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/30/2012 at 3:16pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Oh wait, maybe Christianity isn't a perversion of america since america was already perverted to begin with.
What is this an expression of?

Jesus Christ : Romans 1:16 I'm not ashamed...

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 08:21:03 +0000
Author: Wzila
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/30/2012 at 8:21am

Romans 1:16 I'm not ashamed of the gospel! praise god, I don't care what attacks you launch at us we'll stand firm because God is our protector and savior

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 06:27:20 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/30/2012 at 6:27am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by snowboardslider

[QUOTE=melikman29]keep your religion in your house.
ya know...if the Christians said the same thing to muslims coming to and perverting America, or to gays...not good. we have freedom in America, and this thread is a continuation of thet. if people can be homosexual and open about it, and muclims can teach their garbage in schools, then i think this mild expression of Christianity should be more than okay.

You consider that a "mild" expression of Christianity?

What about the garbage Christians try to teach in schools? What about the perversion of America that Christianity causes? Oh wait, maybe Christianity isn't a perversion of america since america was already perverted to begin with.

Jesus Christ : I love Jesus so MUCH.

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 02:35:17 +0000
Author: humblerooster
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/30/2012 at 2:35am

I love Jesus so MUCH.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider keep...

Sun, 29 Jan 2012 18:53:24 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/29/2012 at 6:53pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

[QUOTE=melikman29]keep your religion in your house.
ya know...if the Christians said the same thing to muslims coming to and perverting America, or to gays...not good. we have freedom in America, and this thread is a continuation of thet. if people can be homosexual and open about it, and muclims can teach their garbage in schools, then i think this mild expression of Christianity should be more than okay.

Jesus Christ : so did you guys hear about...

Sun, 29 Jan 2012 18:47:47 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/29/2012 at 6:47pm

so did you guys hear about the airline company removing the Christian tracks that they had handed out for the past 30 years. some people complained and said some crap about their freedoms being infringed, and now the airline is being forced to comply. the tract was now in any way forcing anything down peoples throaghts. all it was was a psalm, and the majority was blessed by it, Christian and non.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreenEDIT-...

Fri, 27 Jan 2012 06:27:27 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/27/2012 at 6:27am

Originally posted by sgreen

EDIT- I should have said "Constitutionally protected free speech"

not in all countries.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by...

Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:41:05 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/25/2012 at 10:41pm

Originally posted by melikman29

religion is the enemy of knowledge. atheist just don't want your silly delusions influencing public policy. keep your religion in your house.

now please close this thread.
If you attempt to inhibit free speech, aren't you essentially an "enemy of knowledge"?
EDIT- "Constitutionally protected free speech"

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by melikman29religion...

Wed, 25 Jan 2012 21:24:49 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/25/2012 at 9:24pm

Originally posted by melikman29

religion is the enemy of knowledge. atheist just don't want your silly delusions influencing public policy. keep your religion in your house.

now please close this thread.
religion is manmade...RELIGION, not Christianity or God. i know you don't see the difference. religion is an experience people can control, spirituality is an experience that controls me. religion is following a bunch of do's and don'ts. Christianity is about a relationship with God.

Jesus Christ : religion is the enemy of knowledge....

Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:42:44 +0000
Author: melikman29
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/24/2012 at 8:42pm

religion is the enemy of knowledge. atheist just don't want your silly delusions influencing public policy. keep your religion in your house.

now please close this thread.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by tyI find...

Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:27:28 +0000
Author: shreddog_123
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/24/2012 at 8:27pm

Originally posted by ty

I find it interesting at how angry some atheists are about a God they don't believe exists.

If there is no God, no heaven, no hell... Then what does it hurt to believe in one. You don't lose anything in the end. But if there is a God and a heaven and hell, it matters very much.

amen brutha!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Tue, 24 Jan 2012 15:43:32 +0000
Author: carebear
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/24/2012 at 3:43pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by sgreen

^^Look at 2nd Timothy 2. Verses 5, 11, 14,20, & 21 stress the importance of Christian integrity. What was Jesus' primary accusation against the Pharisees, Saducees, chief priests, etc.? "Hypocrites!" (Matthew 23) He told his disciples in verse 3: "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."
sayin one thing, but doin another my brother, a people like no other. it's one thing to practice what you preach. but try preaching what you practice. i'm like, ouch! that's a lot harder.

I totally disagree. It is far more difficult to actually do all the good things that you preach about. It is way easier to simply find the convenient twisting of words that happens to justify whatever you are doing because you CAN'T practice what you preach. Essentially, that is the basis for just about any everyday religion.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen^^Look...

Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:51:09 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/24/2012 at 8:51am

Originally posted by sgreen

^^Look at 2nd Timothy 2. Verses 5, 11, 14,20, & 21 stress the importance of Christian integrity. What was Jesus' primary accusation against the Pharisees, Saducees, chief priests, etc.? "Hypocrites!" (Matthew 23) He told his disciples in verse 3: "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."
sayin one thing, but doin another my brother, a people like no other. it's one thing to practice what you preach. but try preaching what you practice. i'm like, ouch! that's a lot harder.

Jesus Christ : ^^Look at 2nd Timothy 2. Verses...

Mon, 23 Jan 2012 16:04:49 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/23/2012 at 4:04pm

^^Look at 2nd Timothy 2. Verses 5, 11, 14,20, & 21 stress the importance of Christian integrity. What was Jesus' primary accusation against the Pharisees, Saducees, chief priests, etc.? "Hypocrites!" (Matthew 23) He told his disciples in verse 3: "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

Jesus Christ : wassup peoples. wanted to...

Sun, 22 Jan 2012 11:51:40 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/22/2012 at 11:51am

wassup peoples. wanted to share a word that our pastor had for us at church today. religion vs spiritual. religion is all about doing good things and obeying rules and regulations and traditions. all those things can be good...but without God, they aren't. "religion is an experience i can control, while spirituality is an experience that controls me". he also said something that cut deep to my heart. "preach what you practice". i know most of you guys have heard the phrase, "practice what you preach". meaning, don't say one thing but do another. the preach what you practice is saying, tell people what you actually do, not what should be done. keeps things in perspective. we christians do not have things together all the time, and i hope that's not what i portray.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by fishkur Originally...

Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:23:36 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/14/2012 at 4:23pm

Originally posted by fishkur

Originally posted by robnezz23

Make sure you listen to the last ~10 seconds. You'll hear it, loud and clear.

"Thanks you, Jesus."

For what? Inventing parachutes? Or giving him enough disposable income to destroy a snowmobile for no real purpose?
yeah, that "thank you jesus" was OBVIOUSLY a declaration of gratitude for his skill ability to snowboard. and he was just giving God the glory. PSYCH! that gives God about as much credit as someone saying, "thank God". such a casual phrase. i won't say this amazing snowboarding/extreme sport dude is NOT a Christian. but that phrase is obviously not what you are implying he ment by that.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Super...

Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:10:34 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/14/2012 at 4:10pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Super cool vid going crazy viral recently: Check out Why I hate religion, but love Jesus.

[TUBE]watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY[/TUBE]
wow, this is the same guy who created the video on SEX. (now that i have your attention) both are very good. religion needs to die. people got to keep it real. it's so annoying when i go to church and people ask me how i am. i reply with the classic 'good', even if i'm really not. people need to take off the mask and tell em how they really are. it might scare people...

Jesus Christ : was gonna come in here and post...

Thu, 12 Jan 2012 21:30:53 +0000
Author: BoxStomper
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 9:30pm

was gonna come in here and post up that viral video its already been done i see. I really dont like this thread, there is a lot wrong with it, but that video needs to be watched. That is all. I follow Jesus, not my religion

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by carebear Originally...

Thu, 12 Jan 2012 21:28:38 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 9:28pm

Originally posted by carebear

Originally posted by wpiass

why doesn't anyone ever credit god when they lose or do poorly? isn't that god's will too?

"oh thank you god for making me drop that easy pass that cost us the game...now i have the whole rest of the year at home to basque in your glory!!!"

Haha...thank you for blessing me with the opportunity to watch the playoffs from the comfort of my own couch.
yeah...about that...God makes it clear in the Bible that 'His ways are not our ways, and our thought are not his thoughts'. i might not understand why God does what he does in my life, but i trust Him. because when i do, He comes through. but whatever God decides to do, He does it for His glory. He has the bigger plan in mind. i might not understand right away(or ever) why He chooses to allow certain things to happen. sometimes i see later how it was all part of the plan. sometimes i'll catch a glimpse of His plan, and understand that it's ok, how He do it that way.(had to throw a rhyme in there) xD ultimately, He knows why a certain job would not be in my best interest. God doesn't want "good" for us...He wants "the best". so i'm trying not to question when He takes something away or doesn't allow what i want to happen, and i wait instead for His bigger better plan to come through.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by wpiasswhy...

Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:54:06 +0000
Author: carebear
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 11:54am

Originally posted by wpiass

why doesn't anyone ever credit god when they lose or do poorly? isn't that god's will too?

"oh thank you god for making me drop that easy pass that cost us the game...now i have the whole rest of the year at home to basque in your glory!!!"

Haha...thank you for blessing me with the opportunity to watch the playoffs from the comfort of my own couch.

Jesus Christ : why doesn't anyone ever credit...

Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:33:32 +0000
Author: wpiass
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 11:33am

why doesn't anyone ever credit god when they lose or do poorly? isn't that god's will too?

"oh thank you god for making me drop that easy pass that cost us the game...now i have the whole rest of the year at home to basque in your glory!!!"

Jesus Christ : Super cool vid going crazy...

Thu, 12 Jan 2012 10:39:53 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 10:39am

Super cool vid going crazy viral recently: Check out Why I hate religion, but love Jesus.

[TUBE]watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY[/TUBE]

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by fishkur Originally...

Sat, 07 Jan 2012 16:09:50 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/07/2012 at 4:09pm

Originally posted by fishkur

Originally posted by robnezz23

Make sure you listen to the last ~10 seconds. You'll hear it, loud and clear.
"Thanks you, Jesus."

For what? Inventing parachutes? Or giving him enough disposable income to destroy a snowmobile for no real purpose?
Maybe for allowing him to tempt God repeatedly and not yet losing his life for doing so. (Doubtful) Hard to say from the video. Was he grateful to survive or for the rush? Does he think an intentional adrenalin rush is the presence of God? Or something else?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Sat, 07 Jan 2012 11:13:33 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/07/2012 at 11:13am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by robnezz23

Found a sweet connection between Jesus and snowboarding. Check out Jim Rippey, he's actually a pastor near where I live in Reno.

http://www.jimrippey.com/

Here is the highlight vid from his website. Pretty gnarly stuff:
[TUBE]watch?v=dyNKVmGzogA[/TUBE]
wow, don't know what that has to do with Jesus. but that is definately some sick shredding! that guy is cool. what is that favourite stunt of his called?

Make sure you listen to the last ~10 seconds. You'll hear it, loud and clear.
i just didn't see it at the end. but i wasn't looking for it. i was just amazed by the video. will look again.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23Make...

Fri, 06 Jan 2012 11:01:11 +0000
Author: fishkur
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/06/2012 at 11:01am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Make sure you listen to the last ~10 seconds. You'll hear it, loud and clear.

"Thanks you, Jesus."

For what? Inventing parachutes? Or giving him enough disposable income to destroy a snowmobile for no real purpose?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Fri, 06 Jan 2012 10:46:27 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/06/2012 at 10:46am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by robnezz23

Found a sweet connection between Jesus and snowboarding. Check out Jim Rippey, he's actually a pastor near where I live in Reno.

http://www.jimrippey.com/

Here is the highlight vid from his website. Pretty gnarly stuff:
[TUBE]watch?v=dyNKVmGzogA[/TUBE]
wow, don't know what that has to do with Jesus. but that is definately some sick shredding! that guy is cool. what is that favourite stunt of his called?

Make sure you listen to the last ~10 seconds. You'll hear it, loud and clear.

Jesus Christ : I'm pretty stoked to have...

Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:17:41 +0000
Author: whatthehector
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/03/2012 at 2:17pm

I'm pretty stoked to have found this thread. Hope y'all have a blessed season!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Found...

Tue, 03 Jan 2012 13:48:24 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/03/2012 at 1:48pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Found a sweet connection between Jesus and snowboarding. Check out Jim Rippey, he's actually a pastor near where I live in Reno.

http://www.jimrippey.com/

Here is the highlight vid from his website. Pretty gnarly stuff:
[TUBE]watch?v=dyNKVmGzogA[/TUBE]
wow, don't know what that has to do with Jesus. but that is definately some sick shredding! that guy is cool. what is that favourite stunt of his called?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by red_baronHe...

Tue, 03 Jan 2012 12:48:56 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Jan/03/2012 at 12:48pm

Originally posted by red_baron

He is speaking this sunday in Truckee

Red - Did you get to see him speak?
I'm curious to know what he's like.

Jesus Christ : Wishing everyone a blessed New...

Sat, 31 Dec 2011 20:10:31 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/31/2011 at 8:10pm

Wishing everyone a blessed New Year.

The last Verse of the Day for 2011 from Biblegateway.com-
Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters; Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. Isaiah 46:16,18-19

God bless everyone.

Jesus Christ : He is speaking this sunday in...

Thu, 29 Dec 2011 11:13:35 +0000
Author: red_baron
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/29/2011 at 11:13am

He is speaking this sunday in Truckee

Jesus Christ : Found a sweet connection...

Thu, 29 Dec 2011 08:07:44 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/29/2011 at 8:07am

Found a sweet connection between Jesus and snowboarding. Check out Jim Rippey, he's actually a pastor near where I live in Reno.

http://www.jimrippey.com/

Here is the highlight vid from his website. Pretty gnarly stuff:
[TUBE]watch?v=dyNKVmGzogA[/TUBE]

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by vfrdude04 Originally...

Wed, 28 Dec 2011 21:13:40 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/28/2011 at 9:13pm

Originally posted by vfrdude04

Originally posted by robnezz23

Has saying "Merry Christmas" become politically incorrect? Are some people who live in the U.S. offended by it? Just curious, because I've never felt any qualms about saying Merry Christmas, nor do I feel like it's made anyone uncomfortable. But I'd be interested to hear stories.
Would a person of Chinese descent get offended if we said Happy New Year to them on January 1st? The Chinese New Year this year is January 23, fun fact of the day.

Yeah from a business stand point it's politically incorrect. When i worked part time at Starbucks a few years back we had a store meeting before the Holiday about what we were expected "not" to say. We had to say Happy Holidays if the customer didnt say Merry Christmas to us first.
And i'm not sure if the Chinese would get offended or not. Never thought about that! I dont see why, especially if their in America. I mean if i visited China, they wouldnt start speaking English just because i came to town. So why should we have to say Happy Holidays just because the person i'm speaking to may not believe in Christ? We can't please everyone, so i just said Merry Christmas anyways, and if they didnt like it, they can get their coffee somewhere else.
right on! and if they go elsewhere for coffe, they will save $5. we went to New York for a visit and starbucks(along with everything else)was 2-3 more expensive. oh, yeah, at McDonald's...there is no 'dollar menue'. a mc chicken is $2.oo!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Has...

Wed, 28 Dec 2011 20:00:30 +0000
Author: vfrdude04
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/28/2011 at 8:00pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Has saying "Merry Christmas" become politically incorrect? Are some people who live in the U.S. offended by it? Just curious, because I've never felt any qualms about saying Merry Christmas, nor do I feel like it's made anyone uncomfortable. But I'd be interested to hear stories.
Would a person of Chinese descent get offended if we said Happy New Year to them on January 1st? The Chinese New Year this year is January 23, fun fact of the day.

Yeah from a business stand point it's politically incorrect. When i worked part time at Starbucks a few years back we had a store meeting before the Holiday about what we were expected "not" to say. We had to say Happy Holidays if the customer didnt say Merry Christmas to us first.
And i'm not sure if the Chinese would get offended or not. Never thought about that! I dont see why, especially if their in America. I mean if i visited China, they wouldnt start speaking English just because i came to town. So why should we have to say Happy Holidays just because the person i'm speaking to may not believe in Christ? We can't please everyone, so i just said Merry Christmas anyways, and if they didnt like it, they can get their coffee somewhere else.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by red_baronthat...

Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:39:48 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/28/2011 at 7:39pm

Originally posted by red_baron

that flash mob video was sweet
+1 Thanks, Robnezz. My 2-year-old wanted to hear it again. It brought tears to my eyes seeing the couple stroking the baby's head and thinking of Mary and Joseph doing the same to the baby Jesus.

Jesus Christ : that flash mob video was sweet...

Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:39:40 +0000
Author: red_baron
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/28/2011 at 3:39pm

that flash mob video was sweet

Jesus Christ : Has saying "Merry Christmas"...

Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:21:49 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/28/2011 at 3:21pm

Has saying "Merry Christmas" become politically incorrect? Are some people who live in the U.S. offended by it? Just curious, because I've never felt any qualms about saying Merry Christmas, nor do I feel like it's made anyone uncomfortable. But I'd be interested to hear stories.
Would a person of Chinese descent get offended if we said Happy New Year to them on January 1st? The Chinese New Year this year is January 23, fun fact of the day.

Jesus Christ : It's funny how touchy people...

Mon, 26 Dec 2011 22:14:54 +0000
Author: kkruzcek
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/26/2011 at 10:14pm

It's funny how touchy people get just because some Christian's want to share the Christmas joy... How strange it is! Fortunately for all of us God loves us regardless of our silly arguments and name calling and so on!

John 3:17 says Jesus didn't come into the world to condemn, but to save it through Him!

Pretty dope, pretty dope!!!

Jesus Christ : It's so nice to see someone...

Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:50:07 +0000
Author: vfrdude04
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/26/2011 at 8:50pm

It's so nice to see someone say Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays. He is the reason for the season. Merry Christmas to you!

Jesus Christ : Merry Christmas to all my brothers...

Mon, 26 Dec 2011 20:47:42 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/26/2011 at 8:47pm

Merry Christmas to all my brothers out there, may the joy and peace of God be with you always!

Jesus Christ : Verse of the Day-For unto us a...

Sun, 25 Dec 2011 20:13:35 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/25/2011 at 8:13pm

Verse of the Day-

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Jesus Christ : Isaiah 55:8-9 - "For My thoughts...

Sat, 24 Dec 2011 16:22:42 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/24/2011 at 4:22pm

Isaiah 55:8-9 - "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways", says the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth,So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts"

god clearly says you cannot understand his ways (ie. methods, process, etc.) and you cannot understand what his thoughts are (ie. his plans, why he does what he does, etc.). Since you cannot every understand god, how can you say for certain you KNOW it was him that did it for you rather than the devil?

3. I was not aware that I was wrong and that my "correctness" was in question. You asked a question. I pointed out that in order to understand what I wrote, you need to consider the context. So you admit that it is only a possibility and not a 100% certainty. Great. That means, going back to the original point, all the praying that people did to "save" slidur from his heart problem could have done nothing for him and the reality was that he was "saved" because it naturally (non god related) healed just like in many many many cases.
[/QUOTE]mech9t5. what about ALL of the cancer stories in which people were healed? is that natural? therapy can only do so much ya know. #2 God says that His ways are not our ways. and His thoughts are not out thoughts. However, He does not say that we shouldn't try to understand Him. the reality is that we won't be able to FULLY understand Him. but God loves us and wants us to get to know Him personally, so He wants us to try to understand Him.

Jesus Christ : Merry Christmas and God bless...

Sat, 24 Dec 2011 08:58:26 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/24/2011 at 8:58am

Merry Christmas and God bless everyone.

Today's Verse of the Day from Biblegateway.com-
And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds. But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them. Luke 2:16-20

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen1)...

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 08:04:51 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/22/2011 at 8:04am

Originally posted by sgreen

1) You can verify that the experience of salvation through repentance is not repeatable 100% of the time? If you don't even believe in the experience, why are you even bothering to argue whether it can be considered in a scientific sense?

2) How do you equate God's greatness being unsearchable with God himself being unknowable? It's illogical for you to quote that verse, since the psalmist has to know God in order to declare that his greatness is unsearchable. He sounds pretty certain to me.

3) Why do you start hollering "Context! Context!" when someone points out an error in your statements? The context of the prayer/snowfall hypothetical was that snow fell after being requested of God by prayer. It opens up the possibility that the snow came directly as an answer to the prayer to God. I can understand you questioning whether or not it is a miracle, but how can you say with such certainty that the snowfall that came after being requested in prayer is not a miracle? Again, if you don't even believe in the idea, why argue it?
1. Really? that's such a weak argument. When someone makes a claim that something is 100% true in science, they must prove it beyond any doubt. IF they cannot prove it beyond any reasonable doubt, they cannot make that claim. You cannot use the reverse to prove your theory. It's like if I made a claim that "aliens exist 100% true". If someone questions me I say, "prove to me 100% that aliens do NOT exist, otherwise they do exist 100%". Does that not sound mentally challenged to you?

2. I don't think you understand. I am not disputing that the bible says god exists. The knowledge of gods existence is not in question in this verse. What he is saying is that his GREATNESS cannot be fully known. And if that is that case, how can one be certain that a "miracle" was the act of god and not something else?

Isaiah 55:8-9 - "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways", says the LORD. "For as the heavens are higher than the earth,So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts"

god clearly says you cannot understand his ways (ie. methods, process, etc.) and you cannot understand what his thoughts are (ie. his plans, why he does what he does, etc.). Since you cannot every understand god, how can you say for certain you KNOW it was him that did it for you rather than the devil?

3. I was not aware that I was wrong and that my "correctness" was in question. You asked a question. I pointed out that in order to understand what I wrote, you need to consider the context. So you admit that it is only a possibility and not a 100% certainty. Great. That means, going back to the original point, all the praying that people did to "save" slidur from his heart problem could have done nothing for him and the reality was that he was "saved" because it naturally (non god related) healed just like in many many many cases.

Last, I don't understand why you keep asking me why I'm arguing if I don't believe in the idea. Is there some hidden meaning in this? Because, I would have that if I don't believe in the idea, that means I disagree with the idea. If I disagree with something, that is a reason to present my argument. Is that not logical?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Thu, 22 Dec 2011 00:47:29 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/22/2011 at 12:47am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Since there are millions of people who, at the very least, claim to have experienced the new birth, just as he does, how can you say the experience is not repeatable? Do you have a legitimate reason to dispute his or anyone else's salvation claim, other than your own doubt?
For something to be a legitimate theory in science and not simply a "claim", it must be repeatable 100% of the time. I thought that was obvious. Repeatable to some simply means the model is wrong. As in the example of newton, millions of people believed it but it was still wrong in the end.
Originally posted by sgreen

  You tell him he can't say for certain he knows God, but you give no reason why. Why can't he say for certain he knows God? Just because you say so?
Why? because it is impossible for a human to KNOW god for certain. Not because I say so but because the BIBLE SAYS SO. Psalm 145:3 Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; And His greatness is unsearchable. God cannot be known because he is god. So, how can you say for CERTAIN that the being that slidur experienced is god and not something else (the devil, an angel, an alien, his own pysche?
Originally posted by sgreen

  Last, "What if I prayed for snow and got snow? It snows all the time... is it a miracle? NO." Why is it not a miracle in that case?
Because, if you take this example into CONTEXT... it is not a miracle. Slider said that he PRAYED for a something and got it... THUS it was a miracle. The point is that just because you prayed for something and got it, it does not automatically make it a miracle.

IF you were going to say that snow in itself is a miracle, don't even go there. It is not within the context from which the analogy was used.

Religion has a problem with cause/effect relationships making links where they don't exist.
1) You can verify that the experience of salvation through repentance is not repeatable 100% of the time? If you don't even believe in the experience, why are you even bothering to argue whether it can be considered in a scientific sense?

2) How do you equate God's greatness being unsearchable with God himself being unknowable? It's illogical for you to quote that verse, since the psalmist has to know God in order to declare that his greatness is unsearchable. He sounds pretty certain to me.

3) Why do you start hollering "Context! Context!" when someone points out an error in your statements? The context of the prayer/snowfall hypothetical was that snow fell after being requested of God by prayer. It opens up the possibility that the snow came directly as an answer to the prayer to God. I can understand you questioning whether or not it is a miracle, but how can you say with such certainty that the snowfall that came after being requested in prayer is not a miracle? Again, if you don't even believe in the idea, why argue it?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by frankdatankI...

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 14:25:56 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/21/2011 at 2:25pm

Originally posted by frankdatank

I am Christian but I dont play dumb to the fact that christmas is only in december because of the pagan holiday of the shortest day of the year which is tomorrow and that the real saint nick wasnt even christian

Who or what was the real Saint Nick?   Not this guy? ----> http://www.stnicholascenter.org/pages/who-is-st-nicholas/
(Just a website I found that appears to be somewhat of an authority on St. Nicholas. The views and opinions expressed on this web site are soley those of the original authors and other contributors. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of me, myself, and I.)

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 14:13:28 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/21/2011 at 2:13pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by robnezz23

Interesting stuff I found about the origins of today's Christmas traditions, from www.klove.com:

The history behind Christmas traditions
Christmas is truly “a wonderful time of the year” as we celebrate the birth of Jesus. Before we look at any of the origins and customs that we practice, we need to realize the true meaning of Christmas, found in Luke Chapter 2, verses 10-11:
"But the angel reassured (the shepherds). 'Don’t be afraid!' he said. 'I bring you good news that will bring great joy to all people. The Savior—yes, the Messiah, the Lord—has been born today in Bethlehem, the city of David'" Luke 2:10-11
As we look into the various traditions and customs celebrated at Christmas, let us never forget what an incredible story foretold for each one of us that brings us great joy that our Savior has been born!

you guys do know that Jesus was not born on Dec 25 and it was also not 0BC or even 1BC/1AD right?
Yes, and yes.
Are you suggesting that the above tells us that Dec 25 is the actual birthdate of Jesus? Maybe you were just throwing an additional fact into the discussion for our common enlightenment. If so, good on ya mate. It was omitted from the above for what reason?...I don't know. But I don't think they are silly enough to commit to Dec 25th as the actual birthdate. The chances of that are... what is it now... 1 in 365.3 or something like that :D

Jesus Christ : I am Christian but I dont play...

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 11:33:44 +0000
Author: frankdatank
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/21/2011 at 11:33am

I am Christian but I dont play dumb to the fact that christmas is only in december because of the pagan holiday of the shortest day of the year which is tomorrow and that the real saint nick wasnt even christian

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Interesting...

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 11:27:22 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/21/2011 at 11:27am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Interesting stuff I found about the origins of today's Christmas traditions, from www.klove.com:

The history behind Christmas traditions
Christmas is truly “a wonderful time of the year” as we celebrate the birth of Jesus. Before we look at any of the origins and customs that we practice, we need to realize the true meaning of Christmas, found in Luke Chapter 2, verses 10-11:
"But the angel reassured (the shepherds). 'Don’t be afraid!' he said. 'I bring you good news that will bring great joy to all people. The Savior—yes, the Messiah, the Lord—has been born today in Bethlehem, the city of David'" Luke 2:10-11
As we look into the various traditions and customs celebrated at Christmas, let us never forget what an incredible story foretold for each one of us that brings us great joy that our Savior has been born!

you guys do know that Jesus was not born on Dec 25 and it was also not 0BC or even 1BC/1AD right?

Jesus Christ : Interesting stuff I found...

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 10:59:29 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/21/2011 at 10:59am

Interesting stuff I found about the origins of today's Christmas traditions, from www.klove.com:

The history behind Christmas traditions
Christmas is truly “a wonderful time of the year” as we celebrate the birth of Jesus. Before we look at any of the origins and customs that we practice, we need to realize the true meaning of Christmas, found in Luke Chapter 2, verses 10-11:
"But the angel reassured (the shepherds). 'Don’t be afraid!' he said. 'I bring you good news that will bring great joy to all people. The Savior—yes, the Messiah, the Lord—has been born today in Bethlehem, the city of David'" Luke 2:10-11
As we look into the various traditions and customs celebrated at Christmas, let us never forget what an incredible story foretold for each one of us that brings us great joy that our Savior has been born!
Christmas Traditions
The Date – December 25
The original celebration of December 25th was most likely first rooted in pagan festivals by ancient Romans. To celebrate the end of the harvest season, many Romans in northern Europe prepared festive meals, sang songs and gave gifts to one another. These traditions carried into the end of the fourth century A.D., when Christianity would then become the official religion for the Romans.
Saint Nicholas
The “story of St. Nick” is based on the story of an orphan, who’s parents passed away from an epidemic in the fourth century A.D. Saint Nicholas received a large inheritance from his parents and became known for his generosity, always giving what he had to help the needy. He would go onto become a bishop when he was 17 years old, and would later be jailed amidst the persecution Christian bishops faced for not sacrificing to pagan Roman gods. Saint Nicholas would eventually be freed during Constantine’s conquest ten years later.
The Nativity
During the 15th and 16th centuries, the birth of Jesus was portrayed by numerous artists in what we call “The Nativity Scene” today.
Rudolf the Red-Nosed Reindeer
Rudolf was originally based on a story created by a staff writer for Montgomery Ward in 1939. It paralleled the story of The Ugly Duckling and turned a genetically obscure red nose into a navigational tool used on foggy nights.
Christmas Trees
The first “Christmas Tree,” as we know it, originates with Prince Albert in the mid 1800s. Albert provided and decorated a pine tree at Windsor Castle in 1841, but shared his love of the tree by delivering Christmas trees to school children and army barracks.
Tinsel
The German tradition of putting tinsel on Christmas trees first began by using beaten silver strips. It is based on a tale of a poor woman who’s tree was filled with spider webs, and the Christ child was so upset by the webs that He transformed them into strands of silver.
Mistletoe
Mistletoe was first a symbol of peace and reconciliation, marked by its ability to bear fruit in the winter and avoid touching the ground by attaching itself to other trees. The custom of kissing under the mistletoe was a pagan Roman tradition that was eventually banned by the church due to its risqué connotations and replaced with holly wreaths representative of Christ’s crown of thorns.
Christmas Cards
Sir Henry Cole, a British businessman began printing and selling Christmas cards in 1843. The postage for the cards was one penny when the cards were first created, and the price dropped in the 1870s to a half-penny, creating a flurry of traffic for the British Post Office.

Jesus Christ : PROPHECY: He protects all...

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 10:47:41 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/21/2011 at 10:47am

PROPHECY: He protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken. Psalm 34:20

FULFILLMENT: When they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. John 19:33

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by LeerroooyJenkinstried...

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 10:38:07 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/21/2011 at 10:38am

Originally posted by LeerroooyJenkins

tried to get caught up on this thread and found that the Jesus Christ thread finally got to the subject of inbreeding. Didn't see that coming.

Why didn't you see that coming? Adam and eve were the first 2 humans and the bible never says that god created more people and the bible is 100% true.

Jesus Christ : tried to get caught up on this...

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:40:27 +0000
Author: LeerroooyJenkins
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/21/2011 at 9:40am

tried to get caught up on this thread and found that the Jesus Christ thread finally got to the subject of inbreeding. Didn't see that coming.

Jesus Christ : Merry Christmas!Enjoy this...

Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:35:41 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/21/2011 at 9:35am

Merry Christmas!
Enjoy this video, and be sure to watch all the way to the end. There's a surprise!
[TUBE]watch?v=Vnt7euRF5Pg[/TUBE]

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by )(nfinit)(What...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:00:50 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 5:00pm

Originally posted by )(nfinit)(

What I am saying is that inbreeding happens and animals still survive. It just depends on which defects are passed on and the consequences of such defects. I see the points in what you are saying. I am not certain you see mine. Asexual is 100% inbred and survives. Animals are inbred all the time and survive. Some do well, some don't. As you stretch out the bloodlines of recessive and dominant genes, some recessive will show and some dominant will.

I obviously need to learn more, but try researching how what I'm sayin might be possible instead of just trying to prove me wrong. I definitely don't have all the answers.

You are of course perfectly right that inbreeding does happen. I don't know how frequently it happens among animals in the wild (my understanding is that certain species are more prone to it than others). But it's not a good thing because inbred offspring are much more likely to have both physical and health defects, which would make them unfit to survive in the wild, as you know. In captivity, zoos almost always make sure to retain as diverse a gene pool as possible by getting males or females from other zoos around the world when breeding offspring to make sure that the bloodlines don't become too concentrated.

I wasn't arguing to prove you wrong by the way as much as trying to show that the Noah's ark story doesn't make sense in light of what we know about genetics today. What it comes down to with the ark story is that, yes for some animals it would maybe be possible to regenerate their populations from just two single animals, but the way the bible says it happened, this would have to be true for all animals, and that is practically impossible.

By the way, recessive genes only show when there is no dominant allele. Meaning for any trait (where both parents are carriers) there is a 25% chance both alleles will be dominant, a 50% chance the dominant trait will show but the person will still be a carrier of the recessive gene, and a 25% chance the recessive gene will show (if both alleles are recessive).

Asexual reproduction is a really interesting case, but it actually occurs relatively rarely in multicellular organisms. In reading up on it, I saw that "Current hypotheses suggest that asexual reproduction may have short term benefits when rapid population growth is important or in stable environments, while sexual reproduction offers a net advantage by allowing more rapid generation of genetic diversity, allowing adaptation to changing environments." I thought this was really interesting since it seems to suggest that in the early stages of evolution it would have been preferable to reproduce asexually, whereas in later stages animals stand a better chance of surviving if they are able to produce more genetically diverse offspring through sexual reproduction. So if the ark story is to pan out at all, you would necessarily have to have macro-evolution (I would consider a change from an animal that reproduces asexually to an animal that reproduces sexually a pretty large change), since those animals could maybe reproduce asexually first and then evolve to reproduce sexually. This is assuming that no exogenous factors such as disease negatively affect the initially fragile populations.

Jesus Christ : What I am saying is that inbreeding...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:49:04 +0000
Author: )(nfinit)(
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 2:49pm

What I am saying is that inbreeding happens and animals still survive. It just depends on which defects are passed on and the consequences of such defects. I see the points in what you are saying. I am not certain you see mine. Asexual is 100% inbred and survives. Animals are inbred all the time and survive. Some do well, some don't. As you stretch out the bloodlines of recessive and dominant genes, some recessive will show and some dominant will.

I obviously need to learn more, but try researching how what I'm sayin might be possible instead of just trying to prove me wrong. I definitely don't have all the answers.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by )(nfinit)(I...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:57:40 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 1:57pm

Originally posted by )(nfinit)(

I believe inbreeding by definition suggests reproduction is possible. Also I am not an expert on inbreeding, nor have I done tons of research on genetics. However I have read some. The wiki link you provided does not appear to suggest mutation, it only states the recessive genes are more likely to come forward. If you have a parents with brown eyes you will likely have brown eyes. If you have a recessive trait towards blue eyes from one parent and a dominant trait towards brown eyes, you are more likely to have brown eyes. Thats one analogy that I can think of. There are some that paint a worse more drastic picture but they say the same thing.

Again, not claiming to have knowledge in this subject as I have read very little on it. I encourage people to not only research to prove their point, but also research to prove against it. Digging for information and knowledge is always a great thing. I do it constantly.

Ok let's run through this one more time.

Let's assume that your statement "inbreeding is only problematic if there are genetic defects" from your original reply to me is correct. This implies that the animals could have inbred after getting off the ark, provided they didn't have any genetic defects.

Is this a reasonable assumption?

Let's look at two scenarios:

(1) There is no evolution.
In this scenario, we could assume that the animals on the ark did indeed not have any genetic defects and when they therefore reproduced they were able to do so without the dangerous side effects of inbreeding. However, and this is important, if there is no evolution, then our genetic code right now would still have to be the same, that is defect free. But we obviously know this is not the case since there are a largish number of genetic diseases present in the world today. Therefore, in this scenario it is not reasonable to assume that the animals on Noah's ark had no genetic defects.

(2) There is micro-evolution.
In this scenario, the animals that would later end up on Noah's ark were created by God, defect free. They lived on earth for approximately 2300 years (using this timeline, I don't know how accurate it is, but it seems alright), during which, it is more than reasonable to assume, they evolved and a few genetic defects started to appear, just as we can observe now. If the animals on the ark had indeed acquired a few genetic defects by the time the flood arrived, then they would not have been able to regenerate an entire population on account of inbreeding. Therefore, here too, the assumption that the animals on Noah's ark were free of genetic defects is not reasonable.

Either way you play it, it just doesn't work out.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by P...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:21:49 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 1:21pm

Originally posted by Piranha

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by Piranha

There's relatively little roman rock structures still intact after all this time...but a wood boat made it?...near the top of a completely exposed/weather beaten mtn? Anyway, (assuming the iranians didn't just put some old wood there for publicity purposes), just because someone might have built something out of wood near the top of a mtn doesn't mean it was a boat or even used.

merry x-mas
well, what if studies are done(by scientists, we don't want creationalists getting in there and messing anything up now)to show that that boat of gigantic perportions is indeed the ark used by Noah by the command from the hand of God?...did you know, X in x-mas refers to Jesus Christ? just thought i'd throw that out there...anyway...MERRY CHRISMAS!!!
"What if" you're wrong?...what a waste of time/money and resources your church engulfed "life" would be.

And, wrong again, the "x" in my x-mas represents nothing (only reason I even wrote it is I know you bible thumpers hate it).

Happy holidays.

I, like Slider, don't care and don't mind if there's an "x". But in your x-mas above, it doesn't represent nothing. It represents your making a purposeful and pre-meditated attack at those who might be offended.  So why pick a fight?

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience with "bible thumpers" in the past. So have I. I wish it never had happened to you.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:06:11 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 1:06pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by mech9t5

To compare science to religion is just a farce. Stop trying to draw parallels between the 2.
The parallel to be drawn between the two is that they both are a faith system, in which you believe to give you answers and truth.
that's where you guys are wrong and why you don't understand what science is. Science requires no faith at all. In fact, it is completely the opposite. You are not supposed to have faith in a theory or finding. You have to prove it.

that's why religion cannot be compared to science. Religion tries to legitimize itself by comparing themselves to something legitimate.

Sorry, but I disagree with the bold statement above. The faith you have is the belief system that science and the scientific method will give you answers and truth. That is a strong reliance on a set of tactics and methodology to shape your opinions and worldview. Thus, you have faith in those tactics and methods. Even if you have to prove some theory or finding as you say above, you can have faith that following a certain set of rules will either help you prove or disprove the theory or finding. So maybe what I'm saying is that your faith is in those rules...

At any rate, I hope it's not the word "faith" in the same sentence as "science" that is throwing you off. This is why I used "belief system" above as well... that may be more correct from your point of view. What do you feel...does the term "belief system" fit better with you? Faith does not only have to apply to theological discussions, would you agree with me on that?

I have faith that my wife will be home and dinner will be made when I get home from work today. Sure, it may not happen, but I have faith in that idea because of my past experience.

Jesus Christ : I believe inbreeding by definition...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:19:11 +0000
Author: )(nfinit)(
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 11:19am

I believe inbreeding by definition suggests reproduction is possible. Also I am not an expert on inbreeding, nor have I done tons of research on genetics. However I have read some. The wiki link you provided does not appear to suggest mutation, it only states the recessive genes are more likely to come forward. If you have a parents with brown eyes you will likely have brown eyes. If you have a recessive trait towards blue eyes from one parent and a dominant trait towards brown eyes, you are more likely to have brown eyes. Thats one analogy that I can think of. There are some that paint a worse more drastic picture but they say the same thing.

Again, not claiming to have knowledge in this subject as I have read very little on it. I encourage people to not only research to prove their point, but also research to prove against it. Digging for information and knowledge is always a great thing. I do it constantly.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by )(nfinit)(Not...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:47:45 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 10:47am

Originally posted by )(nfinit)(

Not trying to pick a fight, but your experiment with animals wouldn't hold true. Inbreeding is only problematic if there are genetic defects. Then the likelihood of passing those defects on is even higher. Animals inbreed quite often, they don't have the same issues with it that humans do :)

In fact some species are still asexual. Pretty much the highest form of inbreeding.

I encourage discussion and both sides always have valid points. Many can be proven, many cannot. You can have faith in God, or whatever you choose. But if eternity is involved I do suggest proper research.

First off, inbreeding is not only problematic if there are pre-existing genetic defects. The very act of inbreeding causes mutations. This is what Wikipedia (I know...) says about it: "Inbreeding results in increased homozygosity, which can increase the chances of offspring being affected by recessive or deleterious traits."

Second off, there is still a huge logical fallacy in your argument. By your own admission, only some animals are able to reproduce asexually. Certainly humans and other large mammals are not. If two specimen of every single living creature surviving today were on the ark and since there is no evolution (according to Christianity), every type of animal would have to have been able to build a population from just two original animals. But inbreeding and an inability to reproduce asexually makes this impossible for all animals. Ergo, Noah's ark is nothing more than a story.

Unrelated to this, there is a super duper op-ed piece in the NYT today. It's about morality in atheism vs. Christianity. Here's a juicy and provocative snippet:

You do not lose morality by giving up God; neither do you necessarily find it by finding Him.

Jesus Christ : Just a few things to add to...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 10:24:25 +0000
Author: GeckosGoMoo
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 10:24am

Just a few things to add to this discussion:

In response to snowboardslider about sea creatures:
"it honestly does seem a bit sketchy. how, without free will,(as in...their own choosing)would they know about this abundance of food on land? humor me, i really don't know, and you appear to, so enlighten me."

Take into consideration amphibians, and their evolution.

In my opinion, the greatest contradiction of Christianity lies in their concepts of God and Hell. God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. There are many verses about the immeasurable love of God. Why then, does God create man, who, before he is even born, God knows (for God knows everything) that he will become a terrible man and eventually be sent to hell? God creates man, knowing he will later send him to eternal damnation. Scream "free-will" all you want, God still knows his choice. God's love is often compared to be far greater than motherly love. If your mother knew you were about to do something terrible, before you yourself knew, would she not do everything in her power to stop you? And here is God, who loves you far more than your mother ever could, and he allows you to be born, knowing damn well that you will suffer in hell for all eternity. That is not love.

And here's just a fun quote to end this rant.
"But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most." - Mark Twain

Jesus Christ : Originally...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 09:25:17 +0000
Author: Piranha
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 9:25am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by Piranha

There's relatively little roman rock structures still intact after all this time...but a wood boat made it?...near the top of a completely exposed/weather beaten mtn? Anyway, (assuming the iranians didn't just put some old wood there for publicity purposes), just because someone might have built something out of wood near the top of a mtn doesn't mean it was a boat or even used.

merry x-mas
well, what if studies are done(by scientists, we don't want creationalists getting in there and messing anything up now)to show that that boat of gigantic perportions is indeed the ark used by Noah by the command from the hand of God?...did you know, X in x-mas refers to Jesus Christ? just thought i'd throw that out there...anyway...MERRY CHRISMAS!!!
"What if" you're wrong?...what a waste of time/money and resources your church engulfed "life" would be.

And, wrong again, the "x" in my x-mas represents nothing (only reason I even wrote it is I know you bible thumpers hate it).

Happy holidays.

Jesus Christ : Science does have faith. It's...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 07:11:50 +0000
Author: )(nfinit)(
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 7:11am

Science does have faith. It's in the form of theorems and other educated guesses (using the word faith in a different context). Look at chaos, turbulence, etc, I am certain science will eventually be able to be proven for everything. But so will religion. Difference with religion is the true test of your faith costs you your life. Most things in science are not quite that catastrophic to prove ;)

As for the genetic research pointing to a primary couple, I don't have a link. It was a presentation I went to that was held at a university about 3-4 years ago. You can google it and get some responses but I couldn't find the specific research. If I find it I will post it.

There are a lot of people a lot more educated than I in these areas. I just try to see all perspectives. Many intelligent people have valid questions and statements from both sides.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 06:58:47 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 6:58am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by mech9t5

To compare science to religion is just a farce. Stop trying to draw parallels between the 2.

The parallel to be drawn between the two is that they both are a faith system, in which you believe to give you answers and truth.

that's where you guys are wrong and why you don't understand what science is. Science requires no faith at all. In fact, it is completely the opposite. You are not supposed to have faith in a theory or finding. You have to prove it.

that's why religion cannot be compared to science. Religion tries to legitimize itself by comparing themselves to something legitimate.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreenWould...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 06:50:32 +0000
Author: fishkur
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 6:50am

Originally posted by sgreen

Would you mind posting the quote of me claiming I have studied evolution "extensively"? I'm failing to grasp why I would refer to a few recent hours of study as extensive. If I did, I retract.

I don't know if you read the whole of what I was responding to, but the issue was why sea life would move to land. Mech9t5's statement implied that the evolution of sea life to land animal was a conscious act of will and that the first to make the change did so due to knowledge of the existence of a compatible food source and a lack of competition for that food source. I was poking fun at that, nothing more. Anyhoo, on we go...

My bad...I did find it on page 29...but it was someone else. My own fault for reading things too quickly, trying to catch up on a week with no internet (just had eye surgery).
As you said, on we go!

edited:forgot to stop the quote

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 06:49:53 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 6:49am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

I wasn't trying to draw parallels between religion and science. That was incidental. I was trying to draw a parallel between your attitude toward science and that of a cult follower.

clearly you failed.

why don't you try to draw the same parallel between you/your religion and a cult. You'll find many more similarities. In fact, if you did it objectively, you'd come to the conclusion that you are in a cult.

Too bad it is impossible for you to do it objectively.
actually, if you personally were to pick up a book and do some research for yourself...instead of spouting off things that aren't true...i KNOW for a fact you would find that Christianity is the way to go. how is it my 'duty' to prove my religion isn't a cult. i know it's not. just read the bible(with an open mind which you claim to have)and you will se the truth. you yourself compare it to another religion that you have examined for yourself.

by "pick up a book and do some research" are you talking about the bible? because I've read it and I think it's a great story.

Also what things am I "spouting off" that aren't true? That your religion is a cult? I'm not asking for you to prove it isn't and I don't expect you to see it as one.

I know for a fact that I've done enough reading of many religions to know that if I were to choose a religion, it would NOT be christianty. there are religions out there that make more sense with less contradictions.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by )(nfinit)(Science...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 06:43:23 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 6:43am

Originally posted by )(nfinit)(

Science and religion do not have to be independent. I listened to a presentation over a white paper that was done on genetics pointing to a primary couple. It is interesting.

I feel that many people have a bias one direction or another. Whatever your bias may be. I always believe that if you search both sides openly you will find your answer. The trick is, how can we not let our biases dictate.

Imagine being the person who thought the world may be round instead of flat...

do you have a link to this white paper? I'd like to read it to see what arguments they present to say that this is adam and eve. I'd like to also see how they address the issue of genetic diversity required to populate a species.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 06:40:52 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 6:40am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by fishkur

Originally posted by sgreen

So, instead of "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs today", it was more like "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs over the next million years or so"? How did sea life know that there weren't any animals already on land?
They didn't have to know. They just adapted to a new situation and thrived because of it. If there was already lots of competition on land, the new generations would not have survived and that specific variation would not have successfully reproduced. You claim that you have studied evolution extensively yet fail to grasp its foundations.
Would you mind posting the quote of me claiming I have studied evolution "extensively"? I'm failing to grasp why I would refer to a few recent hours of study as extensive. If I did, I retract.

I don't know if you read the whole of what I was responding to, but the issue was why sea life would move to land. Mech9t5's statement implied that the evolution of sea life to land animal was a conscious act of will and that the first to make the change did so due to knowledge of the existence of a compatible food source and a lack of competition for that food source. I was poking fun at that, nothing more. Anyhoo, on we go...

If that was what you were trying to get to, I hope you understand now. animals don't know they are evolving. They don't do it consciously. It is driven by the most basic need. To survive.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowj720 Religion...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 06:29:43 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 6:29am

Originally posted by snowj720

Religion is part of human evolution. Religion was created by man to give us purpose and control people. Religion itself has gone through its own evolution. Modern religion is just an evolved version of the pagan religions it sought to replace. Christianity wanted to take over so bad that it took and created holidays then grafted them over long standing pagan traditions.   It even took stories of "gods" from other religions and re-wrote them to fit itself. And since it's inception, christianity has evolved.   Sometimes in short time periods. Jehovah's witnesses told their people not to fall into the worldly ways, they encouraged their people to NOT go to college and educate themselves. Education was seen as a distraction from god. A few years later the coffers were running dry. The stance was changed and the flock was encouraged to GO to school.   Why? Poor people don't have as much to give to the church as people with money.  Religion changes for it's needs.
I could say many things that i believe about your father, but what basis would i have to say it, if i didn't know him personally?

Jesus Christ : Religion is part of human...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 04:38:17 +0000
Author: snowj720
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 4:38am

Religion is part of human evolution. Religion was created by man to give us purpose and control people. Religion itself has gone through its own evolution. Modern religion is just an evolved version of the pagan religions it sought to replace. Christianity wanted to take over so bad that it took and created holidays then grafted them over long standing pagan traditions.   It even took stories of "gods" from other religions and re-wrote them to fit itself. And since it's inception, christianity has evolved.   Sometimes in short time periods. Jehovah's witnesses told their people not to fall into the worldly ways, they encouraged their people to NOT go to college and educate themselves. Education was seen as a distraction from god. A few years later the coffers were running dry. The stance was changed and the flock was encouraged to GO to school.   Why? Poor people don't have as much to give to the church as people with money.  Religion changes for it's needs.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by LittleShooeyI...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 03:53:35 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 3:53am

Originally posted by LittleShooey

I can't believe this evolution/creationism bickering is still going!

There's a place for religion and there is a place for science. It's when you start blending the two that things start getting weird.

I have no doubt that they found a large wooden ship.
But really? A large wooden ship could have only belonged to one moment in history?

At this point in history, there are human beings found on every continent and thousands of islands. Ships, canoes, rafts were probably pretty commonplace by then. And we have seashells/sea fossils in the Sierras. It's not uncommon for petrified matter to roll up into the mountains on the plate they're on.

Anyways, enjoy your debate guys. Don't take yourself too seriously, okay?
y'know it's interesting when people try to SEPERATE 'religion' and 'science'. that is truely when it gets wierd. i believe God made the world, and all that is in it. so of course i believe in science and that He created that to to amaze us with mirco this and that, and the complexity of the human body, to show us how He loves us. if ya really look into science(like a mirror)you'll see God looking back at ya.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 03:50:23 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 3:50am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by fishkur

Originally posted by sgreen

So, instead of "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs today", it was more like "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs over the next million years or so"? How did sea life know that there weren't any animals already on land?
They didn't have to know. They just adapted to a new situation and thrived because of it. If there was already lots of competition on land, the new generations would not have survived and that specific variation would not have successfully reproduced. You claim that you have studied evolution extensively yet fail to grasp its foundations.
Would you mind posting the quote of me claiming I have studied evolution "extensively"? I'm failing to grasp why I would refer to a few recent hours of study as extensive. If I did, I retract.

I don't know if you read the whole of what I was responding to, but the issue was why sea life would move to land. Mech9t5's statement implied that the evolution of sea life to land animal was a conscious act of will and that the first to make the change did so due to knowledge of the existence of a compatible food source and a lack of competition for that food source. I was poking fun at that, nothing more. Anyhoo, on we go...

it honestly does seem a bit sketchy. how, without free will,(as in...their own choosing)would they know about this abundance of food on land? humor me, i really don't know, and you appear to, so enlighten me.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by Piran...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 03:47:41 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 3:47am

Originally posted by Piranha

There's relatively little roman rock structures still intact after all this time...but a wood boat made it?...near the top of a completely exposed/weather beaten mtn? Anyway, (assuming the iranians didn't just put some old wood there for publicity purposes), just because someone might have built something out of wood near the top of a mtn doesn't mean it was a boat or even used.

merry x-mas
well, what if studies are done(by scientists, we don't want creationalists getting in there and messing anything up now)to show that that boat of gigantic perportions is indeed the ark used by Noah by the command from the hand of God?...did you know, X in x-mas refers to Jesus Christ? just thought i'd throw that out there...anyway...MERRY CHRISMAS!!!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by Caleb9060906Christian...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 03:42:25 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 3:42am

Originally posted by Caleb9060906

Christian and proud of it
right on dude! representin Christ, not afraind to share His light.(Lecrae - Represent)

Jesus Christ : Christian and proud of it

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:31:09 +0000
Author: Caleb9060906
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 12:31am

Christian and proud of it

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by fishkur Originally...

Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:25:17 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/20/2011 at 12:25am

Originally posted by fishkur

Originally posted by sgreen

So, instead of "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs today", it was more like "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs over the next million years or so"? How did sea life know that there weren't any animals already on land?
They didn't have to know. They just adapted to a new situation and thrived because of it. If there was already lots of competition on land, the new generations would not have survived and that specific variation would not have successfully reproduced. You claim that you have studied evolution extensively yet fail to grasp its foundations.
Would you mind posting the quote of me claiming I have studied evolution "extensively"? I'm failing to grasp why I would refer to a few recent hours of study as extensive. If I did, I retract.

I don't know if you read the whole of what I was responding to, but the issue was why sea life would move to land. Mech9t5's statement implied that the evolution of sea life to land animal was a conscious act of will and that the first to make the change did so due to knowledge of the existence of a compatible food source and a lack of competition for that food source. I was poking fun at that, nothing more. Anyhoo, on we go...

Jesus Christ : I can't believe this evolution/creationism...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:45:52 +0000
Author: LittleShooey
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 8:45pm

I can't believe this evolution/creationism bickering is still going!

There's a place for religion and there is a place for science. It's when you start blending the two that things start getting weird.

I have no doubt that they found a large wooden ship.
But really? A large wooden ship could have only belonged to one moment in history?

At this point in history, there are human beings found on every continent and thousands of islands. Ships, canoes, rafts were probably pretty commonplace by then. And we have seashells/sea fossils in the Sierras. It's not uncommon for petrified matter to roll up into the mountains on the plate they're on.

Anyways, enjoy your debate guys. Don't take yourself too seriously, okay?

Jesus Christ : There's...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 20:23:46 +0000
Author: Piranha
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 8:23pm

There's relatively little roman rock structures still intact after all this time...but a wood boat made it?...near the top of a completely exposed/weather beaten mtn? Anyway, (assuming the iranians didn't just put some old wood there for publicity purposes), just because someone might have built something out of wood near the top of a mtn doesn't mean it was a boat or even used.

merry xmas

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider when...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:45:31 +0000
Author: kikko
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 4:45pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

when ones foundation is built on sand...have you ever built a sand castle? anyway...not my point. if what you claim of the infamous evolution is true, then we should see thousands of half evolved mamals. agreed? we should see thousands of fossils supporting your argument. otherwise you are just frontin' homie. you want us christians to proove the Bible but don't seem to have any proof as to where these fossils be.

i guess you've never heard of or been to a museum? there are many fossil exhibits that do show the process of evolution. does "neanderthal" or "cro magnon" ring a bell?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 16:37:54 +0000
Author: rook
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 4:37pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by fishkur

Originally posted by sgreen

So, instead of "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs today", it was more like "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs over the next million years or so"? How did sea life know that there weren't any animals already on land?

They didn't have to know. They just adapted to a new situation and thrived because of it. If there was already lots of competition on land, the new generations would not have survived and that specific variation would not have successfully reproduced. You claim that you have studied evolution extensively yet fail to grasp its foundations.
when ones foundation is built on sand...have you ever built a sand castle? anyway...not my point. if what you claim of the infamous evolution is true, then we should see thousands of half evolved mamals. agreed? we should see thousands of fossils supporting your argument. otherwise you are just frontin' homie. you want us christians to proove the Bible but don't seem to have any proof as to where these fossils be. additionally, if you look throughout the news, you'll see how things in the bible have been found, verifying the Bible's truth and legitimacy. the ark has been found, here is the proof.

IRAN - Iranian officials confirmed today that they have found Noah’s Ark!
A team of top Iranian archaeologists discovered the prominent ancient boat at just over 13,000 feet on Mount Suleiman in Iran’s Elburz mountain range over the weekend.
“It is absolutely, certainly Noah’s ark,” said Tariz Ibaq, president of the Koran Archaeology Search and Exploration Institute, based in Tehran. The group went on an expedition five months ago and were pleased to make the dramatic discovery.
Photos taken by KASE members show a prow-shaped outcrop, made of petrified wood, emerging from a ridge in the mountains.
“We have had thin sections of the rock and identified ancient wood cell structures,” Ibaq said.
Iranian leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said this proves that Noah’s ark came to its final resting placein Iran and proves that Iranians are God’s “chosen people.”
The story of Noah’s ark is told in three major world religions: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
The Book of Genesis describes a great flood created by God “to destroy all life under the heavens.”
But before the flood, God told Noah, one of his human followers, to build an ark and fill it with two of every species on the Earth.
Once Noah had done this, it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. After 7 months and 17 days the waters receded, according to Genesis, and the ark came to rest on the mountains in Iran.
Most Bible scholars had interpreted this to refer to Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey, but according to Iranian authorities, it is Iran where the famous ark came to rest.
“The Bible gives us a compass direction here, and it is not in the direction of Turkey. Instead it points directly towards Iran,” said Biblical scholar Christopher Rigaux.

Are you serious...... do you understand how big an ark would need to be to hold 2 of every animal in the world and their needed food for 7 months......

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardsliderah,...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 14:44:22 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 2:44pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

ah, the age old JOKE...Hell is hot, and at least all of my friends will be there . if you only knew the reality of Hell . if you knew what it was like...instant 'dislike' button. (couldn't resist a quick line for the frontline. i ain't frontin' this time.) Hell is a place of torture and agony. all the horror movies on earth COMBINED can't even scratch the surface to how bad and evil Hell is. imagine LIVING in one of the worst horror films. having some evil animal/zombie cut you up into a million pieces.(sorry, i don't watch horror films, not my taste...) but imagine the worst movie, then put yourself in place of the victim. then imagine all the horror movies combined, being performed on you all at the same time. now imagine that process going on forever. that's a small taste of Hell. and BTW, complete seperation from: everyone you know, light, peace... your senses are hightened so you feel everything to the umpth degree. non-stop torture. an overwhelming feeling of dread. and you may ignore God now...(knowing fully that He is real and the way, truth, life) but in Hell you won't even know God exists. total seperation from God. complete darkness. and it's not just dark, like without light, but a darkness super saturated with evil. there are also huge beasts ripping you apart.(did i mention you can't die?)
What is the biblical support for the highlighted description of hell?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardsliderah,...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 12:29:15 +0000
Author: fishkur
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 12:29pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

ah, the age old JOKE...Hell is hot, and at least all of my friends will be there . if you only knew the reality of Hell . if you knew what it was like...instant 'dislike' button. (couldn't resist a quick line for the frontline. i ain't frontin' this time.) Hell is a place of torture and agony. all the horror movies on earth COMBINED can't even scratch the surface to how bad and evil Hell is. imagine LIVING in one of the worst horror films. having some evil animal/zombie cut you up into a million pieces.(sorry, i don't watch horror films, not my taste...) but imagine the worst movie, then put yourself in place of the victim. then imagine all the horror movies combined, being performed on you all at the same time. now imagine that process going on forever. that's a small taste of Hell. and BTW, complete seperation from: everyone you know, light, peace... your senses are hightened so you feel everything to the umpth degree. non-stop torture. an overwhelming feeling of dread. and you may ignore God now...(knowing fully that He is real and the way, truth, life) but in Hell you won't even know God exists. total seperation from God. complete darkness. and it's not just dark, like without light, but a darkness super saturated with evil. there are also huge beasts ripping you apart.(did i mention you can't die?)

Are you for real? You're going to go with "some evil animal/zombie cut you up into a million pieces" and then sit back and say that evolution is a make-believe sandcastle?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by )(nfinit)(I...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 12:06:00 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 12:06pm

Originally posted by )(nfinit)(

I encourage discussion and both sides always have valid points. Many can be proven, many cannot. You can have faith in God, or whatever you choose. But if eternity is involved I do suggest proper research.

I find the more I have discussions with people the more I find a constant truth. If you were born in to religion it is much easier to grasp than if you are not. I was born into religion. My faith has come easily but I do not have a wealth of knowledge in it. For those who come from non religious backgrounds it is extremely difficult. It's even more difficult when people throw Hell in your face constantly. People have flaws, misconceptions, biases, etc etc. Be open to others viewpoints. Whether Christian or non Christian. You may just learn something.
very interesting. i hope i don't come across as a know-it-all/bible thumper. but as you said, people who grew up with 'religion' can grasp it easier. i am only 20 years old and have little 'professional' education...like biblical seminary or whetever, but i was raised on the amazing(and true)stories found in the bible. they were just interesting back then. but now that i'm older, i see the other side of them. the faith of Daniel and the wisdom he had to stick to the wegan diet instead of the king's meat, and looking healthier for it. and as you said, to me, it just makes sense. i've read a book, "23 minutes in Hell" and it more accurately describes Hell. it's the story of a guy who went there, and his experience. ultimately, until God reveals himself to people, they are blind, and will stay that way. debating won't help that much. keepin it real, ya'll know the deal.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapaloozaI'm...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 11:38:04 +0000
Author: GeckosGoMoo
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 11:38am

Originally posted by namsapalooza

I'm sure you'll be pleased to find that pretty soon you're going to have a lot of handicapped offspring because of inter-breeding. That's why it's illegal to have kids with your cousin!

What the science experiment proves, is that it's not possible to start an entire population of animals like we have them today from just two single animals from that species.

Oh, I forgot to mention this in my first post.
In Asia, it's been common practice(and is currently) since the beginning of civilization to marry their cousin, in order to keep their blood lines pure. They may be a bit shorter than those of euro-descent, but that's hardly the "handicap" you were referring to.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by GeckosGoMoo Originally...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 11:31:10 +0000
Author: wpiass
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 11:31am

Originally posted by GeckosGoMoo

Originally posted by snowboardslider

IRAN - Iranian officials confirmed today that they have found Noah’s Ark!

So they found an ancient boat in a coincidental place, which is proof that this ancient boat is most definitely Noah's Arc, and that Noah did in fact pack (at the least) six million animals onto it?

Have you ever thought critically, once, in your entire life? Let's ignore the animals for now, for I'm sure that "God made it possible."

They found an ancient boat with cells, near Iran. Every boat of that time had cells, where do you think they kept their slaves, or prisoners? Where is the proof that this specific boat is Noah's Arc? If Noah could have built a boat back then, how come the people who inhabited the area surrounding Iran couldn't have too? How do you know that the scientists didn't just find a huge slave-trading ship, hence all the cells?

It amazes me how people believe everything an article says, as long as it uses the words "Scientists say..."

did they find it with our new, secret (formerly) drone? just goes to show that everything else on this thread does, which is that believing whatever is convenient and best suits your story if far easier than looking into reality.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardsliderIRAN...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 11:25:46 +0000
Author: GeckosGoMoo
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 11:25am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

IRAN - Iranian officials confirmed today that they have found Noah’s Ark!

So they found an ancient boat in a coincidental place, which is proof that this ancient boat is most definitely Noah's Arc, and that Noah did in fact pack (at the least) six million animals onto it?

Have you ever thought critically, once, in your entire life? Let's ignore the animals for now, for I'm sure that "God made it possible."

They found an ancient boat with cells, near Iran. Every boat of that time had cells, where do you think they kept their slaves, or prisoners? Where is the proof that this specific boat is Noah's Arc? If Noah could have built a boat back then, how come the people who inhabited the area surrounding Iran couldn't have too? How do you know that the scientists didn't just find a huge slave-trading ship, hence all the cells?

It amazes me how people believe everything an article says, as long as it uses the words "Scientists say..."

Edit: I read the article more closely and realized what they found is "ancient wood cell structures", as in, they microscopically found wood within the rock. What the shtook How do you make a jump from "We found microscopic wood in this rock" to, "We found Noah's Arc!" It sounds to me like that wood could have come from anything, such as a shovel.

Jesus Christ : Not trying to pick a fight, but...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 11:01:39 +0000
Author: )(nfinit)(
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 11:01am

Not trying to pick a fight, but your experiment with animals wouldn't hold true. Inbreeding is only problematic if there are genetic defects. Then the likelihood of passing those defects on is even higher. Animals inbreed quite often, they don't have the same issues with it that humans do :)

In fact some species are still asexual. Pretty much the highest form of inbreeding.

I encourage discussion and both sides always have valid points. Many can be proven, many cannot. You can have faith in God, or whatever you choose. But if eternity is involved I do suggest proper research.

I find the more I have discussions with people the more I find a constant truth. If you were born in to religion it is much easier to grasp than if you are not. I was born into religion. My faith has come easily but I do not have a wealth of knowledge in it. For those who come from non religious backgrounds it is extremely difficult. It's even more difficult when people throw Hell in your face constantly. People have flaws, misconceptions, biases, etc etc. Be open to others viewpoints. Whether Christian or non Christian. You may just learn something.

Jesus Christ : By the way until the Smithsonian...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:45:52 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 10:45am

By the way until the Smithsonian or a similarly reputable institution carbon dates that boat, we can safely ignore it as something made up by people wanting to be seen as the 'chosen people'. Moreover, even if the 'ark' they found is from the correct time period, it doesn't prove it's Noah's ark. We'll have to rely on good old fashioned science and its crazzzzy DNA tests and such to give an indicator as to whether it's possible that it is Noah's ark or not. Until then it's a fancy lump of old wood. And you know, even if they should find that the boat is from the correct time period and two of every species of animal (good luck fitting everything on there, that boat would have to be gargantuan in proportions) were on it, it still doesn't prove that the bible is true. The story could have been written for a number of reasons and only one of them is that god commanded it.

On a side note: You can prove that Noah's ark can't possibly be true by starting a little science experiment of your own. If you want, you can do it with animals, but it'd be even more fun to do it by yourself. So either make sure that you have two animals or find yourself a willing partner and then start having offspring. Then make sure that only the parents and/or the children have more offspring. You'll probably have to get a little incestuous from time to time to keep the species going.

I'm sure you'll be pleased to find that pretty soon you're going to have a lot of handicapped offspring because of inter-breeding. That's why it's illegal to have kids with your cousin!

What the science experiment proves, is that it's not possible to start an entire population of animals like we have them today from just two single animals from that species.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider so...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:28:48 +0000
Author: VermontRider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 10:28am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

so the Christians are really the crazy ones...believing in things unseen, praying to a God that doesn't exist. what happens when you die and come face2face with God and realize...THEY WERE RIGHT! well, it'll be too late then. to all of a sudden be overwhelmed by the fact that you have rejected Him your whole life, and are going to Hell.(laugh now, because you won't be then)

Jesus Christ : ^ I take it you watch a lot of...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:28:15 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 10:28am

^ I take it you watch a lot of Fox News.

What's the source for your story? World Nut Daily?

Did you see the part where the story said you, as an American, aren't one of the 'chosen people'?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by fishkur Originally...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:14:56 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 10:14am

Originally posted by fishkur

Originally posted by sgreen

So, instead of "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs today", it was more like "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs over the next million years or so"? How did sea life know that there weren't any animals already on land?

They didn't have to know. They just adapted to a new situation and thrived because of it. If there was already lots of competition on land, the new generations would not have survived and that specific variation would not have successfully reproduced. You claim that you have studied evolution extensively yet fail to grasp its foundations.
when ones foundation is built on sand...have you ever built a sand castle? anyway...not my point. if what you claim of the infamous evolution is true, then we should see thousands of half evolved mamals. agreed? we should see thousands of fossils supporting your argument. otherwise you are just frontin' homie. you want us christians to proove the Bible but don't seem to have any proof as to where these fossils be. additionally, if you look throughout the news, you'll see how things in the bible have been found, verifying the Bible's truth and legitimacy. the ark has been found, here is the proof.

IRAN - Iranian officials confirmed today that they have found Noah’s Ark!
A team of top Iranian archaeologists discovered the prominent ancient boat at just over 13,000 feet on Mount Suleiman in Iran’s Elburz mountain range over the weekend.
“It is absolutely, certainly Noah’s ark,” said Tariz Ibaq, president of the Koran Archaeology Search and Exploration Institute, based in Tehran. The group went on an expedition five months ago and were pleased to make the dramatic discovery.
Photos taken by KASE members show a prow-shaped outcrop, made of petrified wood, emerging from a ridge in the mountains.
“We have had thin sections of the rock and identified ancient wood cell structures,” Ibaq said.
Iranian leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said this proves that Noah’s ark came to its final resting placein Iran and proves that Iranians are God’s “chosen people.”
The story of Noah’s ark is told in three major world religions: Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
The Book of Genesis describes a great flood created by God “to destroy all life under the heavens.”
But before the flood, God told Noah, one of his human followers, to build an ark and fill it with two of every species on the Earth.
Once Noah had done this, it rained for 40 days and 40 nights. After 7 months and 17 days the waters receded, according to Genesis, and the ark came to rest on the mountains in Iran.
Most Bible scholars had interpreted this to refer to Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey, but according to Iranian authorities, it is Iran where the famous ark came to rest.
“The Bible gives us a compass direction here, and it is not in the direction of Turkey. Instead it points directly towards Iran,” said Biblical scholar Christopher Rigaux.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider so...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:12:28 +0000
Author: itr43
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 10:12am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

so the Christians are really the crazy ones...believing in things unseen, praying to a God that doesn't exist. what happens when you die and come face2face with God and realize...THEY WERE RIGHT! well, it'll be too late then. to all of a sudden be overwhelmed by the fact that you have rejected Him your whole life, and are going to Hell.(laugh now, because you won't be then)

Based on your beliefs, can you explain why a murdering rapist can go to heaven if he believes in jesus. But the person whom he killed can't cause he doesn't believe?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider so...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 10:02:05 +0000
Author: itr43
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 10:02am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

so true, to label a belief 'close minded' without REALLY looking into it, is wrong. i am interested to LEARN what other religions and science has to say. i want to know the truth for myself. however, as unbiased as i try to be, i can't help but see the truth, wisdom, and principles that the Bible has to offer that show me how to live life to the fullest. i guess it is a struggle for everybody, to take what they know and set it aside to learn what others 'know to be true'. i am uneducated, but i am convinced that if God is who He says He is in the Bible, we will see His handywork throughout life, the world, and Science.

Originally posted by snowboardslider

oops, i did it again. didn't really read your comment. so here goes an attempt at a better answer. there is no chance whatsoever, that the Bible is wrong. it was written by 40 different people who were given the words by God. also, there isn't the slightest possibility that any other religion is right, or that it will take you to Heaven. go ahead and call me 'close-minded', but if you actually read the Torah, and other religions scriptures, and study them, and compare them to the Bible, you will see their contradictions and how they are not remotely true. i haven't personally read other religions' scriptures, but i have friends who have.

You already labeled yourself to be close minded.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:59:57 +0000
Author: fishkur
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 9:59am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by fishkur

Originally posted by vfrdude04

Did anybody see the new Colbert Report on Comedy Central this week? He was ripping on Christmas and God in general, i'm surprised the Network would put on stuff like that. It makes me think twice about watching Comedy Central since they've went so sacrilegious.

So they're going to hell, right? Ooops, I guess hell would have to exist for that to happen. My bad.

I fully understand that the Bible speaks (in volumes) about hell. Plenty of books talk about a man that wiggles down your chimney once a year to deposit presents.

Shall I assume that both are truth because it is written down and published?

No. But choose to believe because Jesus talked about hell more than any other subject, and also because many of Jesus' friends and followers who got to hang around him were willing to be put to death in defense of who they thought/knew he was. Otherwise, why would they have chosen to be persecuted and die for the cause?

You are missing my point. Prove any of what you just said to me about Jesus' followers and the supposed persecution. If it is true because it is in the Bible, then I demand you recognize the existence of Santa Claus (not the saint, I mean the one who flies around the world in a sleigh) because people have written about Him.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by rook Originally...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:56:16 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 9:56am

Originally posted by rook

Originally posted by snowboardslider

so the Christians are really the crazy ones...believing in things unseen, praying to a God that doesn't exist. what happens when you die and come face2face with God and realize...THEY WERE RIGHT! well, it'll be too late then. to all of a sudden be overwhelmed by the fact that you have rejected Him your whole life, and are going to Hell.(laugh now, because you won't be then)

I don't want to go to heaven...... NONE of my friends will be there......

ah, the age old JOKE...Hell is hot, and at least all of my friends will be there . if you only knew the reality of Hell . if you knew what it was like...instant 'dislike' button. (couldn't resist a quick line for the frontline. i ain't frontin' this time.) Hell is a place of torture and agony. all the horror movies on earth COMBINED can't even scratch the surface to how bad and evil Hell is. imagine LIVING in one of the worst horror films. having some evil animal/zombie cut you up into a million pieces.(sorry, i don't watch horror films, not my taste...) but imagine the worst movie, then put yourself in place of the victim. then imagine all the horror movies combined, being performed on you all at the same time. now imagine that process going on forever. that's a small taste of Hell. and BTW, complete seperation from: everyone you know, light, peace... your senses are hightened so you feel everything to the umpth degree. non-stop torture. an overwhelming feeling of dread. and you may ignore God now...(knowing fully that He is real and the way, truth, life) but in Hell you won't even know God exists. total seperation from God. complete darkness. and it's not just dark, like without light, but a darkness super saturated with evil. there are also huge beasts ripping you apart.(did i mention you can't die?)

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreenSo,...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:55:37 +0000
Author: fishkur
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 9:55am

Originally posted by sgreen

So, instead of "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs today", it was more like "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs over the next million years or so"? How did sea life know that there weren't any animals already on land?

They didn't have to know. They just adapted to a new situation and thrived because of it. If there was already lots of competition on land, the new generations would not have survived and that specific variation would not have successfully reproduced. You claim that you have studied evolution extensively yet fail to grasp its foundations.

Jesus Christ : You see, for Christians...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:33:20 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 9:33am

You see, for Christians the thing to most look forward to about heaven is seeing Jesus, the object of our worship and affection. If our family or friends are there then that is just icing on the cake. Plus, who says you can't make new friends in heaven?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider so...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:06:36 +0000
Author: rook
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 9:06am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

so the Christians are really the crazy ones...believing in things unseen, praying to a God that doesn't exist. what happens when you die and come face2face with God and realize...THEY WERE RIGHT! well, it'll be too late then. to all of a sudden be overwhelmed by the fact that you have rejected Him your whole life, and are going to Hell.(laugh now, because you won't be then)

I don't want to go to heaven...... NONE of my friends will be there......

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 To...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:04:33 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 9:04am

Originally posted by mech9t5

To compare science to religion is just a farce. Stop trying to draw parallels between the 2.

The parallel to be drawn between the two is that they both are a faith system, in which you believe to give you answers and truth.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 How...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:00:07 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 9:00am

Originally posted by mech9t5

How can anyone claim that "god made everything" to be a "pillar of truth"?

Sorry, should have said it's a "pillar of truth" specifically for Christians, and actually for many other world religions too.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by )(nfinit)(Science...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:56:02 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 8:56am

Originally posted by )(nfinit)(

Science and religion do not have to be independent. I listened to a presentation over a white paper that was done on genetics pointing to a primary couple. It is interesting.

I feel that many people have a bias one direction or another. Whatever your bias may be. I always believe that if you search both sides openly you will find your answer. The trick is, how can we not let our biases dictate.

Imagine being the person who thought the world may be round instead of flat...
so true, to label a belief 'close minded' without REALLY looking into it, is wrong. i am interested to LEARN what other religions and science has to say. i want to know the truth for myself. however, as unbiased as i try to be, i can't help but see the truth, wisdom, and principles that the Bible has to offer that show me how to live life to the fullest. i guess it is a struggle for everybody, to take what they know and set it aside to learn what others 'know to be true'. i am uneducated, but i am convinced that if God is who He says He is in the Bible, we will see His handywork throughout life, the world, and Science.

Jesus Christ : so the Christians are reallythe...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:47:19 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 8:47am

so the Christians are really the crazy ones...believing in things unseen, praying to a God that doesn't exist. what happens when you die and come face2face with God and realize...THEY WERE RIGHT! well, it'll be too late then. to all of a sudden be overwhelmed by the fact that you have rejected Him your whole life, and are going to Hell.(laugh now, because you won't be then)

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 08:39:06 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 8:39am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

I wasn't trying to draw parallels between religion and science. That was incidental. I was trying to draw a parallel between your attitude toward science and that of a cult follower.

clearly you failed.

why don't you try to draw the same parallel between you/your religion and a cult. You'll find many more similarities. In fact, if you did it objectively, you'd come to the conclusion that you are in a cult.

Too bad it is impossible for you to do it objectively.
actually, if you personally were to pick up a book and do some research for yourself...instead of spouting off things that aren't true...i KNOW for a fact you would find that Christianity is the way to go. how is it my 'duty' to prove my religion isn't a cult. i know it's not. just read the bible(with an open mind which you claim to have)and you will se the truth. you yourself compare it to another religion that you have examined for yourself.

Jesus Christ : Science and religion do not have...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:43:42 +0000
Author: )(nfinit)(
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 7:43am

Science and religion do not have to be independent. I listened to a presentation over a white paper that was done on genetics pointing to a primary couple. It is interesting.

I feel that many people have a bias one direction or another. Whatever your bias may be. I always believe that if you search both sides openly you will find your answer. The trick is, how can we not let our biases dictate.

Imagine being the person who thought the world may be round instead of flat...

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen I...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:23:12 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 7:23am

Originally posted by sgreen

I wasn't trying to draw parallels between religion and science. That was incidental. I was trying to draw a parallel between your attitude toward science and that of a cult follower.

clearly you failed.

why don't you try to draw the same parallel between you/your religion and a cult. You'll find many more similarities. In fact, if you did it objectively, you'd come to the conclusion that you are in a cult.

Too bad it is impossible for you to do it objectively.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Since...

Mon, 19 Dec 2011 07:21:30 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/19/2011 at 7:21am

Originally posted by sgreen

Since there are millions of people who, at the very least, claim to have experienced the new birth, just as he does, how can you say the experience is not repeatable? Do you have a legitimate reason to dispute his or anyone else's salvation claim, other than your own doubt?
For something to be a legitimate theory in science and not simply a "claim", it must be repeatable 100% of the time. I thought that was obvious. Repeatable to some simply means the model is wrong. As in the example of newton, millions of people believed it but it was still wrong in the end.

Originally posted by sgreen

  You tell him he can't say for certain he knows God, but you give no reason why. Why can't he say for certain he knows God? Just because you say so?
Why? because it is impossible for a human to KNOW god for certain. Not because I say so but because the BIBLE SAYS SO. Psalm 145:3 Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised; And His greatness is unsearchable. God cannot be known because he is god. So, how can you say for CERTAIN that the being that slidur experienced is god and not something else (the devil, an angel, an alien, his own pysche?

Originally posted by sgreen

  Last, "What if I prayed for snow and got snow? It snows all the time... is it a miracle? NO." Why is it not a miracle in that case?

Because, if you take this example into CONTEXT... it is not a miracle. Slider said that he PRAYED for a something and got it... THUS it was a miracle. The point is that just because you prayed for something and got it, it does not automatically make it a miracle.

IF you were going to say that snow in itself is a miracle, don't even go there. It is not within the context from which the analogy was used.

Religion has a problem with cause/effect relationships making links where they don't exist.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5Your...

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:37:29 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 11:37pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Your questions show me that you don't understand science at all. The whole basis of science is not to accept a claim until you have proof of it. In fact, it is quite disturbing how you relate science to religion. Science, in this case, "evolutionary science" is not a religion.

...
...
...

That's how science works. Science does not make claims that are not backed up by something and reviewed by other scientists.

When I learned about the laws of motion, we not only learned it from textbooks, but we also conducted experiments. The famous feather and hammer experiment on the moon further provided proof of the laws of motion.

Religion is 100% claims with nothing to back them up and no one to review the results. To compare science to religion is just a farce. Stop trying to draw parallels between the 2.
I wasn't trying to draw parallels between religion and science. That was incidental. I was trying to draw a parallel between your attitude toward science and that of a cult follower.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:29:26 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 11:29pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

agreed. all you said makes sense. however, you don't know God, so you can't say who He is or is not. and you can't say that Christianity is or isn't because you aren't a Christian. just like i can't say that Science isn't real(that would be dumb and ignorant)because i haven't done research or anything. YOU know it's real because you have seen the experiments/research/scientific evidence. I know that Christianity is real because of the experiences i have had. you can't tell me that i am delusional or making up the experiences i have had(and do have). if you were married, could i tell you that your wife wasn't real? no. of course, she is physically here. you may not believe that there is a God, but i do, and my prayers do not go unanswered. there are specifid things God has saved my from in my life that have pointed me to Him. i had 2 holes in my heart when i was a few months old. i was gonna die...the whole church assembly prayed for me and the doctors came in to find that one of the holes had closed up. are you gonna tell me that wasn't God?
First, as I said stop comparing science to religion. My experience with science experiments is the same experience that everyone else has. It is an experience that is repeatable and yields the same results.

regarding your heart, you think it's god because you are ignorant. I also had holes in my heart and nobody prayed for me. The holes also closed up on their own. Is it gods work? No. It happens all the time. Is that a miracle? No. You just attribute things to god for NO REASON. What if I prayed for snow and got snow? It snows all the time... is it a miracle? NO.

Last, you cant say for certain you know god either. how do you know it isn't the devil? He has been known to trick people.
Since there are millions of people who, at the very least, claim to have experienced the new birth, just as he does, how can you say the experience is not repeatable? Do you have a legitimate reason to dispute his or anyone else's salvation claim, other than your own doubt?

You tell him he can't say for certain he knows God, but you give no reason why. Why can't he say for certain he knows God? Just because you say so?

Last, "What if I prayed for snow and got snow? It snows all the time... is it a miracle? NO." Why is it not a miracle in that case?

Jesus Christ : Kill people. burn shit. shtook...

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:19:38 +0000
Author: Amills646
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 11:19pm

Kill people. burn shit. shtook school. hahahahahahahahahahaahahahaha I had too

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 23:01:24 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 11:01pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Nope the wolf has been domesticated into a 'cute cuddly pet'. Micro Evolution at work.
the wolf did not "change" from it's basic genes into say, an elephant. it changed slightly to match it's environment. as humans have changed to adapt to their environment...wether it be adapting to the large lifestyle of McDonalds, or how jamacians run races barefoot.
You already stated you don't understand science. You should stop talking about evolution because you don't know what you're talking about. of course a wolf isn't going to change into an elephant. If a wolf changes into anything it will be something UNKNOWN which does not exist today. evolution can make an animal change into another EXISTING animal. That is just retarded.
You're going to harass him for overstating the obvious? Are intolerance and name-calling recessive traits or dominant? Has ignorance ever stopped you from speaking out?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 12:13:03 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 12:13pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Nope the wolf has been domesticated into a 'cute cuddly pet'. Micro Evolution at work.
the wolf did not "change" from it's basic genes into say, an elephant. it changed slightly to match it's environment. as humans have changed to adapt to their environment...wether it be adapting to the large lifestyle of McDonalds, or how jamacians run races barefoot.

You already stated you don't understand science. You should stop talking about evolution because you don't know what you're talking about. of course a wolf isn't going to change into an elephant. If a wolf changes into anything it will be something UNKNOWN which does not exist today. evolution can make an animal change into another EXISTING animal. That is just retarded.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider agreed....

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 12:09:29 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 12:09pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

agreed. all you said makes sense. however, you don't know God, so you can't say who He is or is not. and you can't say that Christianity is or isn't because you aren't a Christian. just like i can't say that Science isn't real(that would be dumb and ignorant)because i haven't done research or anything. YOU know it's real because you have seen the experiments/research/scientific evidence. I know that Christianity is real because of the experiences i have had. you can't tell me that i am delusional or making up the experiences i have had(and do have). if you were married, could i tell you that your wife wasn't real? no. of course, she is physically here. you may not believe that there is a God, but i do, and my prayers do not go unanswered. there are specifid things God has saved my from in my life that have pointed me to Him. i had 2 holes in my heart when i was a few months old. i was gonna die...the whole church assembly prayed for me and the doctors came in to find that one of the holes had closed up. are you gonna tell me that wasn't God?

First, as I said stop comparing science to religion. My experience with science experiments is the same experience that everyone else has. It is an experience that is repeatable and yields the same results.

regarding your heart, you think it's god because you are ignorant. I also had holes in my heart and nobody prayed for me. The holes also closed up on their own. Is it gods work? No. It happens all the time. Is that a miracle? No. You just attribute things to god for NO REASON. What if I prayed for snow and got snow? It snows all the time... is it a miracle? NO.

Last, you cant say for certain you know god either. how do you know it isn't the devil? He has been known to trick people.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapaloozaNope...

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 09:26:06 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 9:26am

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Nope the wolf has been domesticated into a 'cute cuddly pet'. Micro Evolution at work.
the wolf did not "change" from it's basic genes into say, an elephant. it changed slightly to match it's environment. as humans have changed to adapt to their environment...wether it be adapting to the large lifestyle of McDonalds, or how jamacians run races barefoot.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapalooza Originally...

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 09:19:25 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 9:19am

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Nope the wolf has been domesticated into a 'cute cuddly pet'. Evolution at work.

There was an interesting article in National Geographic several months ago about (I think) Russians trying to domesticate foxes. Very good read.
interesting indeed, it's called evolution. and the same ocurance appefars in the olympics. the fastest time for men in the 70's wouldn't even qualify for the women's! that is micro evolution at work. people developing muscles and changing their genes...not changing from ape to human.

Hahaha that's laughable. I'm sorry, but your example from the Olymnpics is implying that the fastest runners from back then were breeding with each other and that's why we have even faster runners now. I reckon it has more to do with people eating better and training more purposefully now. Unless you've heard of an amateur eugenics project to 'create' better athletes. Really. I think the only person to seriously consider doing something so silly was Hitler.

EDIT: By the by, no one is implying that an ape changed into a human. Evolution says both apes and humans may have evolved from a third, different ancestor many, many moons ago.
what i was implying was, genes that are passed down obviously affect what traits we have. people who were atheletes then passed on theose genes(along with eating and excercising right). so in theory, people can ovolve on the micro level by living heathily.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 07:23:55 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 7:23am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Nope the wolf has been domesticated into a 'cute cuddly pet'. Evolution at work.

There was an interesting article in National Geographic several months ago about (I think) Russians trying to domesticate foxes. Very good read.
interesting indeed, it's called evolution. and the same ocurance appefars in the olympics. the fastest time for men in the 70's wouldn't even qualify for the women's! that is micro evolution at work. people developing muscles and changing their genes...not changing from ape to human.

Hahaha that's laughable. I'm sorry, but your example from the Olymnpics is implying that the fastest runners from back then were breeding with each other and that's why we have even faster runners now. I reckon it has more to do with people eating better and training more purposefully now. Unless you've heard of an amateur eugenics project to 'create' better athletes. Really. I think the only person to seriously consider doing something so silly was Hitler.

EDIT: By the by, no one is implying that an ape changed into a human. Evolution says both apes and humans may have evolved from a third, different ancestor many, many moons ago.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapaloozaNope...

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 07:15:05 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 7:15am

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Nope the wolf has been domesticated into a 'cute cuddly pet'. Evolution at work.

There was an interesting article in National Geographic several months ago about (I think) Russians trying to domesticate foxes. Very good read.
interesting indeed, it's called micro-evolution. and the same ocurance appefars in the olympics. the fastest time for men in the 70's wouldn't even qualify for the women's! that is micro evolution at work. people developing muscles and changing their genes...not changing from ape to human.

Jesus Christ : Nope the wolf has been domesticated...

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 06:59:42 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 6:59am

Nope the wolf has been domesticated into a 'cute cuddly pet'. Evolution at work.

There was an interesting article in National Geographic several months ago about (I think) Russians trying to domesticate foxes. Very good read.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapaloozaI...

Sun, 18 Dec 2011 06:55:53 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/18/2011 at 6:55am

Originally posted by namsapalooza

I found this to be pretty a propos in light of recent discussions:

so basically. the dog has changed from 'fierce warrior' to 'cute cuddely pet'. :-)

Jesus Christ : I found this to be pretty a propos...

Sat, 17 Dec 2011 13:55:14 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/17/2011 at 1:55pm

I found this to be pretty a propos in light of recent discussions:

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Sat, 17 Dec 2011 07:48:07 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/17/2011 at 7:48am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

...

Luke 1:30-33 is not a passage about creation.
it sure doesn't. but try this: Genesis 1:1 "in the begining, God created the Heavens and the Earth." saying that this verse is not valid proof because it says so in the Bible is just like me saying you can't believe in scientists who have found the data you claim credifies Evolution.
Ya. that's exactly what it's like. Of course they are the same. Of course I should believe in Genesis. I mean, why do I need any evidence at all? It's obvious common sense right? Scientists are wasting time and money conducting tests and gathering data. What a bunch of idiots.

However, I'm still looking for an explanation of creation beyond "POOF" as sgreen seems to be implying it didn't happen that way.
No, that's not what I'm implying. Genesis 1:1 sums it up.

Why do you believe science's claims? How did you come by your faith in the scientific explanation for the existence of the universe? Were you ever skeptical of the idea? Did you require science to provide all the evidence you considered necessary to accept the theory? Did you personally verify the info you heard and found in textbooks or other media? Or did you just walk up to the evolutionary Kool-Aid stand, throw down your 50-gallon hydro-pack, and say, "Fill'er up!"?

Now, in case I didn't make myself clear, I'd like to know if, when you were in the process (if there was any process to it) of becoming a disciple of evolutionary science, you made any demands upon science to convince you of its claims, as you are of Christianity, or did you just take it all in unchallenged?

Your questions show me that you don't understand science at all. The whole basis of science is not to accept a claim until you have proof of it. In fact, it is quite disturbing how you relate science to religion. Science, in this case, "evolutionary science" is not a religion.

In science, you are allowed to throw away what you thought was "absolute truth". In religion you cannot. If I find a better model to describe a system, I will drop the old one with no problem. You cannot. If you find a better model, you are no longer christian. That's how religion works. It is inflexible. You cannot add new information or remove erroneous information.

The best example is Newton's laws of motion. We can experiment and prove that the laws of motion are true. ALL scientists believed this to be accurate. Einstein proved that it was not accurate through mathematics and later it was proven with experimentation. Science does not cling to newton's model of physics. Science has accepted newton's laws were inaccurate and incorporated einstein's work into the laws of motion to improve the model.

Just recently there was an experiment that produced results that would have destroyed Einstein's theory. The results were published and the scientists were careful not to make claims that Einstein was wrong. The results were verified and reviewed by the scientific community. An error was found and the results were proven to be erroneous.

That's how science works. Science does not make claims that are not backed up by something and reviewed by other scientists.

When I learned about the laws of motion, we not only learned it from textbooks, but we also conducted experiments. The famous feather and hammer experiment on the moon further provided proof of the laws of motion.

Religion is 100% claims with nothing to back them up and no one to review the results. To compare science to religion is just a farce. Stop trying to draw parallels between the 2.

agreed. all you said makes sense. however, you don't know God, so you can't say who He is or is not. and you can't say that Christianity is or isn't because you aren't a Christian. just like i can't say that Science isn't real(that would be dumb and ignorant)because i haven't done research or anything. YOU know it's real because you have seen the experiments/research/scientific evidence. I know that Christianity is real because of the experiences i have had. you can't tell me that i am delusional or making up the experiences i have had(and do have). if you were married, could i tell you that your wife wasn't real? no. of course, she is physically here. you may not believe that there is a God, but i do, and my prayers do not go unanswered. there are specifid things God has saved my from in my life that have pointed me to Him. i had 2 holes in my heart when i was a few months old. i was gonna die...the whole church assembly prayed for me and the doctors came in to find that one of the holes had closed up. are you gonna tell me that wasn't God?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Sat, 17 Dec 2011 05:53:03 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/17/2011 at 5:53am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

...

Luke 1:30-33 is not a passage about creation.
it sure doesn't. but try this: Genesis 1:1 "in the begining, God created the Heavens and the Earth." saying that this verse is not valid proof because it says so in the Bible is just like me saying you can't believe in scientists who have found the data you claim credifies Evolution.
Ya. that's exactly what it's like. Of course they are the same. Of course I should believe in Genesis. I mean, why do I need any evidence at all? It's obvious common sense right? Scientists are wasting time and money conducting tests and gathering data. What a bunch of idiots.

However, I'm still looking for an explanation of creation beyond "POOF" as sgreen seems to be implying it didn't happen that way.
No, that's not what I'm implying. Genesis 1:1 sums it up.

Why do you believe science's claims? How did you come by your faith in the scientific explanation for the existence of the universe? Were you ever skeptical of the idea? Did you require science to provide all the evidence you considered necessary to accept the theory? Did you personally verify the info you heard and found in textbooks or other media? Or did you just walk up to the evolutionary Kool-Aid stand, throw down your 50-gallon hydro-pack, and say, "Fill'er up!"?

Now, in case I didn't make myself clear, I'd like to know if, when you were in the process (if there was any process to it) of becoming a disciple of evolutionary science, you made any demands upon science to convince you of its claims, as you are of Christianity, or did you just take it all in unchallenged?

Your questions show me that you don't understand science at all. The whole basis of science is not to accept a claim until you have proof of it. In fact, it is quite disturbing how you relate science to religion. Science, in this case, "evolutionary science" is not a religion.

In science, you are allowed to throw away what you thought was "absolute truth". In religion you cannot. If I find a better model to describe a system, I will drop the old one with no problem. You cannot. If you find a better model, you are no longer christian. That's how religion works. It is inflexible. You cannot add new information or remove erroneous information.

The best example is Newton's laws of motion. We can experiment and prove that the laws of motion are true. ALL scientists believed this to be accurate. Einstein proved that it was not accurate through mathematics and later it was proven with experimentation. Science does not cling to newton's model of physics. Science has accepted newton's laws were inaccurate and incorporated einstein's work into the laws of motion to improve the model.

Just recently there was an experiment that produced results that would have destroyed Einstein's theory. The results were published and the scientists were careful not to make claims that Einstein was wrong. The results were verified and reviewed by the scientific community. An error was found and the results were proven to be erroneous.

That's how science works. Science does not make claims that are not backed up by something and reviewed by other scientists.

When I learned about the laws of motion, we not only learned it from textbooks, but we also conducted experiments. The famous feather and hammer experiment on the moon further provided proof of the laws of motion.

Religion is 100% claims with nothing to back them up and no one to review the results. To compare science to religion is just a farce. Stop trying to draw parallels between the 2.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 We...

Sat, 17 Dec 2011 05:25:55 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/17/2011 at 5:25am

Originally posted by robnezz23

We don't know EXACTLY HOW it happened (the mechanism), but I think I speak for most Christians when I say that that is not what matters most.  This is just one of the many topics on which the Bible is relatively silent. That's like asking: How did Jesus raise from the dead? Nobody was there to witness how it actually went down when he rolled away the stone and stepped out of the grave, but when you believe that God is all-powerful you believe that anything in his divine will is possible.  The reality that God made everything stands as a pillar of truth; whether it was a POOF moment, or whether he said "Abra-cadabra" or whether he had the whole fabric of the world in a huge cauldron and summoned the powers of Harry Potter is somewhat irrelevant.

So you're saying "POOF" is a good way of describing creation (I believe sgreen concurs). Is this supposed to make it more or less believable?

How can anyone claim that "god made everything" to be a "pillar of truth"? Don't you think that the fact that you are comparing the way god created the universe to harry potter is kind of telling? I would equate the bible to a harry potter book too. Both are interesting stories and both show how fantastic the human imagination can be.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by carebear Originally...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:34:41 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 4:34pm

Originally posted by carebear

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by carebear

teaching the Bible as literature
Now that actually sounds interesting. But then it'd be more like taking a Shakespeare class, which sounds swell.

I suggested because I actually took this in HS and thought it was interesting. Granted, I was probably the only non-religious person in the class, but interesting nonetheless. And yes, waaaay better than Shakesspeare, which I agree is about as awesome as a swift kick in the junk!

Meh I don't mind Shakespeare. I do think looking at the Bible as a work of literature and studying the narrative that way would be really interesting. There are probably a few colleges that offer such a course... Hmmm...

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapalooza Originally...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:25:11 +0000
Author: carebear
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 4:25pm

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by carebear

teaching the Bible as literature

Now that actually sounds interesting. But then it'd be more like taking a Shakespeare class, which sounds swell.

I suggested because I actually took this in HS and thought it was interesting. Granted, I was probably the only non-religious person in the class, but interesting nonetheless. And yes, waaaay better than Shakesspeare, which I agree is about as awesome as a swift kick in the junk!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by carebearteaching...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:19:39 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 4:19pm

Originally posted by carebear

teaching the Bible as literature

Now that actually sounds interesting. But then it'd be more like taking a Shakespeare class, which sounds swell.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by wpiass Originally...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 15:48:18 +0000
Author: carebear
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 3:48pm

Originally posted by wpiass

Originally posted by rook

The problem with teaching creationism as a non-relgious scientific theory is it would be a really easy/short subject. Everything was created....... end of subject.

i know, sounds pretty silly, right?

Maybe if you don't spin it as "teaching Creationism" (which is really just the same as saying religious school), but more like teaching the Bible as literature, then it may be more acceptable and less offensive to others.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by rookThe...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:48:52 +0000
Author: wpiass
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 2:48pm

Originally posted by rook

The problem with teaching creationism as a non-relgious scientific theory is it would be a really easy/short subject. Everything was created....... end of subject.

i know, sounds pretty silly, right?

Jesus Christ : ^^ that's true and everything...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:48:46 +0000
Author: rook
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 2:48pm

^^ that's true and everything can be spun anyway you want to spin it (NOTHING is free of bias)........ Until we have a time lapse video taken over a few 100 million years showing a species evolve or god shows up and creates something new for the world to see (neither of which are ever going to happen), then this argument is unwinable on either side.

Jesus Christ : Here's an article I found...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:41:32 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 2:41pm

Here's an article I found interesting:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

Especially this passage:
"Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty";there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complexworld. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flowdeductively from stated premises and achieve certainty onlybecause they are not about the empirical world.Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, thoughcreationists often do (and then attack us falsely for astyle of argument that they themselves favor). In science"fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that itwould be perverse to withhold provisional consent." (Stephen J. Gould)

Jesus Christ : The problem with teaching creationism...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 14:31:34 +0000
Author: rook
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 2:31pm

The problem with teaching creationism as a non-relgious scientific theory is it would be a really easy/short subject. Everything was created....... end of subject.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by rookThat's...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:53:25 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 1:53pm

Originally posted by rook

That's exactly what I am saying. Until I see someone/something (whatever) create a living thing from scratch (even a bacteria) that's what I am going with.
likewise, how can i believe in Evolution when i have never seen a dinosour turn into a bird?(you know you haven't seen this, you just have faith that it happened. Evolution is a good theory as to where we came from, but only a theory. still tought in schools as the truth though. schools should teach Creation as a theory as well in that case.)

Jesus Christ : That's exactly what I am...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:13:53 +0000
Author: rook
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 1:13pm

That's exactly what I am saying. Until I see someone/something (whatever) create a living thing from scratch (even a bacteria) that's what I am going with.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by rook I...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 13:04:46 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 1:04pm

Originally posted by rook

I have seen species evolve with my own eyes. . . . that's all the proof I need.
so what you're saying is, because you have watched some bacteria change and morph into(???) then a DINOSAUR can come from a BIRD?!?!
(or vice versa, however you claim)

Jesus Christ : I have seen species evolve with...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 12:54:03 +0000
Author: rook
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 12:54pm

I have seen species evolve with my own eyes....... that's all the proof I need.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 12:25:09 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 12:25pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

...

Luke 1:30-33 is not a passage about creation.
it sure doesn't. but try this: Genesis 1:1 "in the begining, God created the Heavens and the Earth." saying that this verse is not valid proof because it says so in the Bible is just like me saying you can't believe in scientists who have found the data you claim credifies Evolution.
Ya. that's exactly what it's like. Of course they are the same. Of course I should believe in Genesis. I mean, why do I need any evidence at all? It's obvious common sense right? Scientists are wasting time and money conducting tests and gathering data. What a bunch of idiots.

However, I'm still looking for an explanation of creation beyond "POOF" as sgreen seems to be implying it didn't happen that way.
No, that's not what I'm implying. Genesis 1:1 sums it up.

Why do you believe science's claims? How did you come by your faith in the scientific explanation for the existence of the universe? Were you ever skeptical of the idea? Did you require science to provide all the evidence you considered necessary to accept the theory? Did you personally verify the info you heard and found in textbooks or other media? Or did you just walk up to the evolutionary Kool-Aid stand, throw down your 50-gallon hydro-pack, and say, "Fill'er up!"?

Now, in case I didn't make myself clear, I'd like to know if, when you were in the process (if there was any process to it) of becoming a disciple of evolutionary science, you made any demands upon science to convince you of its claims, as you are of Christianity, or did you just take it all in unchallenged?

Jesus Christ : We don't know EXACTLY...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 09:32:20 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 9:32am

We don't know EXACTLY HOW it happened (the mechanism), but I think I speak for most Christians when I say that that is not what matters most.  This is just one of the many topics on which the Bible is relatively silent. That's like asking: How did Jesus raise from the dead? Nobody was there to witness how it actually went down when he rolled away the stone and stepped out of the grave, but when you believe that God is all-powerful you believe that anything in his divine will is possible.  The reality that God made everything stands as a pillar of truth; whether it was a POOF moment, or whether he said "Abra-cadabra" or whether he had the whole fabric of the world in a huge cauldron and summoned the powers of Harry Potter is somewhat irrelevant.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Fri, 16 Dec 2011 05:29:27 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/16/2011 at 5:29am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by carebear

Animals evolving into totally different looking ones over millions and millions of years DOES make sense and there is even tons of data proving it, where (even at the genetic level now) we can follow the evolution from one species to the next.

So this sounds silly to you but a magic man in the sky that suddenly snapped his fingers one day and POOF there was the world, then builds a guy out of dirt and POOF there is man, then takes one of his ribs and POOF there is woman. This really makes more sense to you than evolution?!? Really?!?
Magic man in the sky ... snapped his fingers ... POOF there was the world ... builds a guy out of dirt ... POOF there is man ... takes one of his ribs ... POOF there is woman.

Wow. When you put it like that...
What translation are you reading from?

Luke 1:30-33
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

why don't you explain how the universe, planets, humans, animals, etc. were created then?

Luke 1:30-33 is not a passage about creation.
it sure doesn't. but try this: Genesis 1:1 "in the begining, God created the Heavens and the Earth." saying that this verse is not valid proof because it says so in the Bible is just like me saying you can't believe in scientists who have found the data you claim credifies Evolution.

Ya. that's exactly what it's like. Of course they are the same. Of course I should believe in Genesis. I mean, why do I need any evidence at all? It's obvious common sense right? Scientists are wasting time and money conducting tests and gathering data. What a bunch of idiots.

However, I'm still looking for an explanation of creation beyond "POOF" as sgreen seems to be implying it didn't happen that way.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Thu, 15 Dec 2011 05:26:14 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/15/2011 at 5:26am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by carebear

Animals evolving into totally different looking ones over millions and millions of years DOES make sense and there is even tons of data proving it, where (even at the genetic level now) we can follow the evolution from one species to the next.

So this sounds silly to you but a magic man in the sky that suddenly snapped his fingers one day and POOF there was the world, then builds a guy out of dirt and POOF there is man, then takes one of his ribs and POOF there is woman. This really makes more sense to you than evolution?!? Really?!?
Magic man in the sky ... snapped his fingers ... POOF there was the world ... builds a guy out of dirt ... POOF there is man ... takes one of his ribs ... POOF there is woman.

Wow. When you put it like that...
What translation are you reading from?

Luke 1:30-33
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

why don't you explain how the universe, planets, humans, animals, etc. were created then?

Luke 1:30-33 is not a passage about creation.
it sure doesn't. but try this: Genesis 1:1 "in the begining, God created the Heavens and the Earth." saying that this verse is not valid proof because it says so in the Bible is just like me saying you can't believe in scientists who have found the data you claim credifies Evolution.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Thu, 15 Dec 2011 05:07:21 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/15/2011 at 5:07am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by carebear

Animals evolving into totally different looking ones over millions and millions of years DOES make sense and there is even tons of data proving it, where (even at the genetic level now) we can follow the evolution from one species to the next.

So this sounds silly to you but a magic man in the sky that suddenly snapped his fingers one day and POOF there was the world, then builds a guy out of dirt and POOF there is man, then takes one of his ribs and POOF there is woman. This really makes more sense to you than evolution?!? Really?!?
Magic man in the sky ... snapped his fingers ... POOF there was the world ... builds a guy out of dirt ... POOF there is man ... takes one of his ribs ... POOF there is woman.

Wow. When you put it like that...
What translation are you reading from?

Luke 1:30-33
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

why don't you explain how the universe, planets, humans, animals, etc. were created then?

Luke 1:30-33 is not a passage about creation.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by carebearAnimals...

Wed, 14 Dec 2011 22:48:58 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/14/2011 at 10:48pm

Originally posted by carebear

Animals evolving into totally different looking ones over millions and millions of years DOES make sense and there is even tons of data proving it, where (even at the genetic level now) we can follow the evolution from one species to the next.

So this sounds silly to you but a magic man in the sky that suddenly snapped his fingers one day and POOF there was the world, then builds a guy out of dirt and POOF there is man, then takes one of his ribs and POOF there is woman. This really makes more sense to you than evolution?!? Really?!?
Magic man in the sky ... snapped his fingers ... POOF there was the world ... builds a guy out of dirt ... POOF there is man ... takes one of his ribs ... POOF there is woman.

Wow. When you put it like that...
What translation are you reading from?

Luke 1:30-33
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by wpiass Originally...

Wed, 14 Dec 2011 14:32:21 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/14/2011 at 2:32pm

Originally posted by wpiass

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by robnezz23

Joy to the world, the Lord is come! May the spirit of the first Christmas be with all of you this year!
Thank you, robnezz23. May God bless you and your family, also.

mazel tov!
feliz navidad! prospero ano

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:51:28 +0000
Author: wpiass
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/14/2011 at 11:51am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by robnezz23

Joy to the world, the Lord is come! May the spirit of the first Christmas be with all of you this year!
Thank you, robnezz23. May God bless you and your family, also.

mazel tov!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Joy...

Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:01:53 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/14/2011 at 9:01am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Joy to the world, the Lord is come! May the spirit of the first Christmas be with all of you this year!
Thank you, robnezz23. May God bless you and your family, also.

Jesus Christ : Joy to the world, the Lord...

Wed, 14 Dec 2011 08:40:08 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/14/2011 at 8:40am

Joy to the world, the Lord is come! May the spirit of the first Christmas be with all of you this year!

Jesus Christ : word, so absurd to be spendin...

Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:42:41 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/13/2011 at 6:42pm

word, so absurd to be spendin every dime all the time for grimy greasy food like Cici's. i can't lie, i like the fries at five guys. but why, sonny, got me spendin all my money, my hard earned cash doesn't last, gone fast, cast away every d...ay for gas. catastrophe, the atrophie of my brain, i'm going insane. membrane bout to expload with the load of information. now i'm in formation for the nation, national guard.(i think i should stop now, holy cow, it's time for bed, got a final in the mornin, i might be dead if i don't get some discreet sleep.)
this is a freestyle, i threw down on facebook. hope you guys like it!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by CLoSeRWhy...

Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:41:28 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/13/2011 at 6:41pm

Originally posted by CLoSeR

Why do we need to have this discussion on a snowboard forum.. someone lock this thread already!
because there is freedom in America. at least there was...go look at the other random threads. that shows the freedom we have here in America. freedom of speech and of press.

Jesus Christ : Why do we need to have this discussion...

Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:23:41 +0000
Author: CLoSeR
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/13/2011 at 6:23pm

Why do we need to have this discussion on a snowboard forum.. someone lock this thread already!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by carebear Originally...

Tue, 13 Dec 2011 18:09:55 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/13/2011 at 6:09pm

Originally posted by carebear

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by mech9t5

I'm sorry but you can call it a cop out or whatever. I'm not going to explain evolution to you. If you want to learn, I suggest you start with wikipedia. By your question about how did they know there was no animal on land, it is clear you don't get evolution.

yup! you're trying to find the "design" behind evolution and it's not going to work. animals adapt to their environment. they don't 'decide' to suddenly grow lungs or arms...

my bad! i keep doing this. (by accident, really) posting their post without adding anything. so now i will. evolution doesn't really make sense. the idea that a dinosour can turn into a bird is, if you admit it, is rather odd. it also really looks as strange as us crazy christians talking to an unseen being, expecting an answer(which i can claim i reciece, as you claim evolution is real...even though you haven't actually seen evolution in proccess)

But we have seen evolution in process! Viruses and bacteria evolve all the time: that's why we go from one flu to the next from year to year. And there are many other examples.

EDIT: Also, listen to Ken Miller for a minute. He's a Roman Catholic biologist who still believes in evolution. Big thinkers in evolution on PBS.

Animals evolving into totally different looking ones over millions and millions of years DOES make sense and there is even tons of data proving it, where (even at the genetic level now) we can follow the evolution from one species to the next.

So this sounds silly to you but a magic man in the sky that suddenly snapped his fingers one day and POOF there was the world, then builds a guy out of dirt and POOF there is man, then takes one of his ribs and POOF there is woman. This really makes more sense to you than evolution?!? Really?!?
God and His works(found in the Bible) does make more sense when balanced with everything else He says through the Bible to us. like, how to live and ways ot gain wisdom and understanding. i admit that there is more to the evolution proccess than i know or understand. but on the flip side, there is more to God that you guys don't understand to pass Him off as...fake. i'll at least humor you on evolution, because i'm not an educated dude when it comes to these things. i'm willing to learn about evolution with an open mind. I DESIRE TRUTH, JUST LIKE YOU. and i am willing to look for it. consider this, (and just humor me on this one), Evolution was right all along..well then, i should be able to read up on it and see it to be true. additionally, i encourage you guys who doubt God and the Bible,(as i do evolution)to just pick one up sometime(as i will study the evolution proccess), and find for yourself if God is real.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapalooza Originally...

Tue, 13 Dec 2011 16:22:22 +0000
Author: carebear
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/13/2011 at 4:22pm

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by mech9t5

I'm sorry but you can call it a cop out or whatever. I'm not going to explain evolution to you. If you want to learn, I suggest you start with wikipedia. By your question about how did they know there was no animal on land, it is clear you don't get evolution.

yup! you're trying to find the "design" behind evolution and it's not going to work. animals adapt to their environment. they don't 'decide' to suddenly grow lungs or arms...

my bad! i keep doing this. (by accident, really) posting their post without adding anything. so now i will. evolution doesn't really make sense. the idea that a dinosour can turn into a bird is, if you admit it, is rather odd. it also really looks as strange as us crazy christians talking to an unseen being, expecting an answer(which i can claim i reciece, as you claim evolution is real...even though you haven't actually seen evolution in proccess)

But we have seen evolution in process! Viruses and bacteria evolve all the time: that's why we go from one flu to the next from year to year. And there are many other examples.

EDIT: Also, listen to Ken Miller for a minute. He's a Roman Catholic biologist who still believes in evolution. Big thinkers in evolution on PBS.

Animals evolving into totally different looking ones over millions and millions of years DOES make sense and there is even tons of data proving it, where (even at the genetic level now) we can follow the evolution from one species to the next.

So this sounds silly to you but a magic man in the sky that suddenly snapped his fingers one day and POOF there was the world, then builds a guy out of dirt and POOF there is man, then takes one of his ribs and POOF there is woman. This really makes more sense to you than evolution?!? Really?!?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Tue, 13 Dec 2011 16:03:16 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/13/2011 at 4:03pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by mech9t5

I'm sorry but you can call it a cop out or whatever. I'm not going to explain evolution to you. If you want to learn, I suggest you start with wikipedia. By your question about how did they know there was no animal on land, it is clear you don't get evolution.

yup! you're trying to find the "design" behind evolution and it's not going to work. animals adapt to their environment. they don't 'decide' to suddenly grow lungs or arms...

my bad! i keep doing this. (by accident, really) posting their post without adding anything. so now i will. evolution doesn't really make sense. the idea that a dinosour can turn into a bird is, if you admit it, is rather odd. it also really looks as strange as us crazy christians talking to an unseen being, expecting an answer(which i can claim i reciece, as you claim evolution is real...even though you haven't actually seen evolution in proccess)

But we have seen evolution in process! Viruses and bacteria evolve all the time: that's why we go from one flu to the next from year to year. And there are many other examples.

EDIT: Also, listen to Ken Miller for a minute. He's a Roman Catholic biologist who still believes in evolution. Big thinkers in evolution on PBS.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Tue, 13 Dec 2011 14:46:36 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/13/2011 at 2:46pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by mech9t5

I'm sorry but you can call it a cop out or whatever. I'm not going to explain evolution to you. If you want to learn, I suggest you start with wikipedia. By your question about how did they know there was no animal on land, it is clear you don't get evolution.

yup! you're trying to find the "design" behind evolution and it's not going to work. animals adapt to their environment. they don't 'decide' to suddenly grow lungs or arms...
my bad! i keep doing this. (by accident, really) posting their post without adding anything. so now i will. evolution doesn't really make sense. the idea that a dinosour can turn into a bird is, if you admit it, is rather odd. it also really looks as strange as us crazy christians talking to an unseen being, expecting an answer(which i can claim i reciece, as you claim evolution is real...even though you haven't actually seen evolution in proccess)

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapalooza Originally...

Mon, 12 Dec 2011 19:12:54 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/12/2011 at 7:12pm

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by mech9t5

I'm sorry but you can call it a cop out or whatever. I'm not going to explain evolution to you. If you want to learn, I suggest you start with wikipedia. By your question about how did they know there was no animal on land, it is clear you don't get evolution.

yup! you're trying to find the "design" behind evolution and it's not going to work. animals adapt to their environment. they don't 'decide' to suddenly grow lungs or arms...

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 John...

Mon, 12 Dec 2011 18:51:40 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/12/2011 at 6:51pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

John Chapter 10 verse 14-18: 14 I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

The image of us as sheep - dirty, dumb, and defenseless - is not flattering at all. All glory and honor be to our Heavenly Father.
wow dude, i never thought about sheep in that regard. truely humbling. we think that we all that, while God could squash us like, splat. and yet He still accepts us as we are. if i were God(be grateful i am not!), there would be a lot less people recieving underserved grace.

Jesus Christ : John Chapter 10 verse 14-18:...

Mon, 12 Dec 2011 10:50:32 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/12/2011 at 10:50am

John Chapter 10 verse 14-18: 14 I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

The image of us as sheep - dirty, dumb, and defenseless - is not flattering at all. All glory and honor be to our Heavenly Father.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Mon, 12 Dec 2011 04:42:36 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/12/2011 at 4:42am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

To my knowledge, I have not found ANY ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed.
So, it's possible that you have found an "ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed", but just don't know it?
I'm sorry but you can call it a cop out or whatever. I'm not going to explain evolution to you. If you want to learn, I suggest you start with wikipedia. By your question about how did they know there was no animal on land, it is clear you don't get evolution.

regarding the statement you quoted, of course I can't say 100% whether or not there are any articles or studies that were peer reviewed or not.
Then what was the point of bringing it up? What I 'get' is that your own understanding is questionable at best. You'd be a lot better off to just stick to the assertion that evolution, by whatever definition you are using, can be considered factual and leave the explanations to the big boys. Better yet, you should probably leave the whole issue in the hands of somebody who knows what to do with it. The more you say, the sillier you sound. The smartest thing you've said since you started posting on this thread, is to recommend researching evolution from reputable sources.

thats ok. i get that religion teaches you to attack what you dont understand and they teach you to be close minded and blind to facts in order that you continue to believe. i know my understanding of the subject. educated people dont think "the more i say, the sillier i sound"

in fact edcucated people would say the same about you.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Mon, 12 Dec 2011 03:34:35 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/12/2011 at 3:34am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

To my knowledge, I have not found ANY ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed.
So, it's possible that you have found an "ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed", but just don't know it?
I'm sorry but you can call it a cop out or whatever. I'm not going to explain evolution to you. If you want to learn, I suggest you start with wikipedia. By your question about how did they know there was no animal on land, it is clear you don't get evolution.

regarding the statement you quoted, of course I can't say 100% whether or not there are any articles or studies that were peer reviewed or not.
Then what was the point of bringing it up? What I 'get' is that your own understanding is questionable at best. You'd be a lot better off to just stick to the assertion that evolution, by whatever definition you are using, can be considered factual and leave the explanations to the big boys. Better yet, you should probably leave the whole issue in the hands of somebody who knows what to do with it. The more you say, the sillier you sound. The smartest thing you've said since you started posting on this thread, is to recommend researching evolution from reputable sources.
i agree. HOWEVER, this is why i don't like big debates...because i know my lack of knowledge would make Christianity, or whatever i am debating, look bad.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 23:22:31 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/11/2011 at 11:22pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

To my knowledge, I have not found ANY ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed.
So, it's possible that you have found an "ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed", but just don't know it?
I'm sorry but you can call it a cop out or whatever. I'm not going to explain evolution to you. If you want to learn, I suggest you start with wikipedia. By your question about how did they know there was no animal on land, it is clear you don't get evolution.

regarding the statement you quoted, of course I can't say 100% whether or not there are any articles or studies that were peer reviewed or not.
Then what was the point of bringing it up? What I 'get' is that your own understanding is questionable at best. You'd be a lot better off to just stick to the assertion that evolution, by whatever definition you are using, can be considered factual and leave the explanations to the big boys. Better yet, you should probably leave the whole issue in the hands of somebody who knows what to do with it. The more you say, the sillier you sound. The smartest thing you've said since you started posting on this thread, is to recommend researching evolution from reputable sources.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5I'm...

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 09:46:57 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/11/2011 at 9:46am

Originally posted by mech9t5

I'm sorry but you can call it a cop out or whatever. I'm not going to explain evolution to you. If you want to learn, I suggest you start with wikipedia. By your question about how did they know there was no animal on land, it is clear you don't get evolution.

yup! you're trying to find the "design" behind evolution and it's not going to work. animals adapt to their environment. they don't 'decide' to suddenly grow lungs or arms...

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 05:15:00 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/11/2011 at 5:15am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

To my knowledge, I have not found ANY ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed.
So, it's possible that you have found an "ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed", but just don't know it?

I'm sorry but you can call it a cop out or whatever. I'm not going to explain evolution to you. If you want to learn, I suggest you start with wikipedia. By your question about how did they know there was no animal on land, it is clear you don't get evolution.

regarding the statement you quoted, of course I can't say 100% whether or not there are any articles or studies that were peer reviewed or not.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted...

Sun, 11 Dec 2011 01:39:22 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/11/2011 at 1:39am

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by exastronaut

Slider, you went on to point out that a woodpecker has a lot of unique traits and that it is, indeed, a very specialized animal. However, you did nothing to disprove that it could have taken it's current form through numerous, successive, slight modifications. You seem to be making the assumption that this bird has always been smashing it's head into trees since the beginning of time (whenever that may have been). It's not only physical characteristics that are modified over time, behavior is as well.

'Survival of the fittest' doesn't just mean bigger, faster, stronger. It's also about filling a niche. Bamboo is an awful source of nutrition, so animals don't rely on it in their diet. Except the panda does exclusively. It found a food source that it didn't have to compete for. Besides physically being able to process such a tough food source, pandas also move slowly and purposefully to save energy. Those characteristics would have to change together. There's not much competition for insects high up in trees either. It is entirely possible that some birds underwent physical and behavioral modifications to thrive on a food source with little competition.

Slidur hasn't made up the mouse trap analogy or wood pecker example at all. I've heard about these 2 things before. This is the uneducated delusional ID drivel that comes from creationists pretending to understand evolution trying to disprove it.

To my knowledge, I have not found ANY ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed. All their crap are just claims without a single shred of evidence.

The analogy and example itself PROVES 100% that they do not understand how evolution works. They think the woodpecker's ancestor did not peck wood and then suddenly one day the offspring pecked wood. That's evolution to them... no wonder it doesn't make sense.

You know why there is no creationist who seems to understand evolution? It's because once the creationist understands, they are no longer creationists.
Is 'crap' a scientific term?

Does the universe count as a shred of evidence? Do you know what the biblical stance on 'intelligent design' is?

How does any of this excerpt follow the 'scientific method'? What is your evidence and how would you demonstrate any of this?
Originally posted by mech9t5

For example, from water to land... since all animals were in the water, it was a huge advantage to be able to get food from land (no competition). Any animal that made it to land would flourish. And it wasn't an immediate "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs today". It was more like I can spend 5 mins out of water, next mutation was 6 mins, and so on until they could stay on land indefinitely.

So, instead of "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs today", it was more like "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs over the next million years or so"? How did sea life know that there weren't any animals already on land?

And this-
Originally posted by mech9t5

To my knowledge, I have not found ANY ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed.
So, it's possible that you have found an "ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed", but just don't know it?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Sat, 10 Dec 2011 15:51:29 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/10/2011 at 3:51pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by return2heaven

i did see that comment by sgreen... guess we can't have sgreen agreeing with mech now, can we?
kinda seemed like he thought it was mech who brought up the mouse trap argument and without even thinking he just went into "auto disagree with mech" mode lol

nope sgreen will never agree with me... haha.
I'm glad at least he believes the mouse trap is a stupid analogy for irreducible complexity.
Also, FYI irreducible complexity has been proven to be a flawed argument too.
I just wish people who disagree with evolution and support ID (IC) would just go LEARN about evolution and biology from REPUTABLE sources and not propaganda sources before concluding it is false

haha yup. turns out he didn't press the delete button fast enough :)

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by return2heaveni...

Sat, 10 Dec 2011 11:17:16 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/10/2011 at 11:17am

Originally posted by return2heaven

i did see that comment by sgreen... guess we can't have sgreen agreeing with mech now, can we?
kinda seemed like he thought it was mech who brought up the mouse trap argument and without even thinking he just went into "auto disagree with mech" mode lol

nope sgreen will never agree with me... haha.

I'm glad at least he believes the mouse trap is a stupid analogy for irreducible complexity.

Also, FYI irreducible complexity has been proven to be a flawed argument too.

I just wish people who disagree with evolution and support ID (IC) would just go LEARN about evolution and biology from REPUTABLE sources and not propaganda sources before concluding it is false

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapaloozai...

Sat, 10 Dec 2011 11:13:42 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/10/2011 at 11:13am

Originally posted by namsapalooza

i can't speak for carebear, but i do believe jesus actually existed. i just don't see any proof that conclusively shows that he was exactly who you say he is. but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that issue.

I also believe someone named Jesus Christ existed. He was probably a great guy... but was he god? What if he was just god's tool doing god's will? That happens all the time no? god performs miracles through everyday people. Does it make those people god? Nope.

As I said before, it is a huge leap of faith to believe in god and I think it's an even bigger leap of faith to believe Jesus was god.

Jesus Christ : I'm not here to argue...

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 19:11:05 +0000
Author: vfrdude04
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/09/2011 at 7:11pm

I'm not here to argue back and forth. I firmly believe in Jesus and God, and i'm going to continue that. People who dont believe cant say anything to me to get me to change my mind, just like there is nothing i could say to them to make them think differently. My dad was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis (MS) back when i was a teenager. It was a rough time for us for a few years and having an in house nurse stop by every so often to do checkups. And after many years of prayer and interceding his health begin to get better and he eventually didnt show any more symptoms of MS. He then went back in to the doctor to see what was up, and the doctor told him there was no sign of MS in his body. So that is definitely healing, so dont try to feed me mindless information from Google that God doenst exist.

But, i just really wanted to share a video spreading around my college campus, and i think it expresses exactly of how society has changed it's view towards sex and other things. It's a great lyrical poem. Check it out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlJFvxad1_A

Jesus Christ : i did see that comment by sgreen......

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 15:19:56 +0000
Author: return2heaven
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/09/2011 at 3:19pm

i did see that comment by sgreen... guess we can't have sgreen agreeing with mech now, can we?
kinda seemed like he thought it was mech who brought up the mouse trap argument and without even thinking he just went into "auto disagree with mech" mode lol

Jesus Christ : whoa what just happened. i saw...

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 15:00:28 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/09/2011 at 3:00pm

whoa what just happened. i saw a reply to the above comment by sgreen and it's now completely disappeared. and it agreed with mech9t5 saying that the mouse trap is a bad analogy for Darwin's complex organ since it would have been constructed by man through a trial and error process.

anyway...

Originally posted by robnezz23

Very cute big smile. I can't tell if you're doing that to jab me in the side trying to lighten the mood a little, or if it's more of an evil smile.
Regardless, I'm curious: What is your theory about what happened to Jesus near the end of his time here on Earth?

EDIT: Wait, now I remember. Don't bother answering that, because I remember that you don't believe Jesus was ever here in the first place... carry on...

i can't speak for carebear, but i do believe jesus actually existed. i just don't see any proof that conclusively shows that he was exactly who you say he is. but we'll just have to agree to disagree on that issue.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by exastronautSlider,...

Fri, 09 Dec 2011 04:27:11 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/09/2011 at 4:27am

Originally posted by exastronaut

Slider, you went on to point out that a woodpecker has a lot of unique traits and that it is, indeed, a very specialized animal. However, you did nothing to disprove that it could have taken it's current form through numerous, successive, slight modifications. You seem to be making the assumption that this bird has always been smashing it's head into trees since the beginning of time (whenever that may have been). It's not only physical characteristics that are modified over time, behavior is as well.

'Survival of the fittest' doesn't just mean bigger, faster, stronger. It's also about filling a niche. Bamboo is an awful source of nutrition, so animals don't rely on it in their diet. Except the panda does exclusively. It found a food source that it didn't have to compete for. Besides physically being able to process such a tough food source, pandas also move slowly and purposefully to save energy. Those characteristics would have to change together. There's not much competition for insects high up in trees either. It is entirely possible that some birds underwent physical and behavioral modifications to thrive on a food source with little competition.

Slidur hasn't made up the mouse trap analogy or wood pecker example at all. I've heard about these 2 things before. This is the uneducated delusional ID drivel that comes from creationists pretending to understand evolution trying to disprove it.

To my knowledge, I have not found ANY ID argument that was scientifically conducted and peer reviewed. All their crap are just claims without a single shred of evidence.

The analogy and example itself PROVES 100% that they do not understand how evolution works. They think the woodpecker's ancestor did not peck wood and then suddenly one day the offspring pecked wood. That's evolution to them... no wonder it doesn't make sense.

You know why there is no creationist who seems to understand evolution? It's because once the creationist understands, they are no longer creationists.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 21:54:11 +0000
Author: exastronaut
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 9:54pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by kikko

slider it's plain to see that you just don't know what evolution is... natural selection etc...
not all creatures needed to change in order to survive. some were able to withstand the earth's great changes which caused widespread death among many organisms. Charles Darwin observed that not all creatures perished during these great environmental crisis and were able to reproduce, and their offspring inherited the immunities that allowed their predecessors to survive and these immunities would in turn be passed down from generation to generation. you do know who Darwin is don't you?

Oh, I do. I've deeply studied. I've just learned more than what the evolutionists will tell you. Let us quote Darwin then: "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."
--Charles Darwin, Origin of Species
The household item that exemplifies this is the common mousetrap. The full list of parts is: Hammer, Spring, Holding Bar, Catch, and the Platform. Without a single one of these parts, no mice can be caught. Thus, all of the parts were A. purposely designed, and B. assembled simultaneously.
In nature, we see countless animals that also have this "condition". Since you didnt seek those truthes for yourself, i'll elaborate here about the common and antievolutionary woodpecker.

I feel that your analogy is very weak. The hammer, spring, holding bar, catch, and platform were developed independently over time and brought together. No one invented all of those things all at once for the sole purpose of the mousetrap.

Slider, you went on to point out that a woodpecker has a lot of unique traits and that it is, indeed, a very specialized animal. However, you did nothing to disprove that it could have taken it's current form through numerous, successive, slight modifications. You seem to be making the assumption that this bird has always been smashing it's head into trees since the beginning of time (whenever that may have been). It's not only physical characteristics that are modified over time, behavior is as well.

'Survival of the fittest' doesn't just mean bigger, faster, stronger. It's also about filling a niche. Bamboo is an awful source of nutrition, so animals don't rely on it in their diet. Except the panda does exclusively. It found a food source that it didn't have to compete for. Besides physically being able to process such a tough food source, pandas also move slowly and purposefully to save energy. Those characteristics would have to change together. There's not much competition for insects high up in trees either. It is entirely possible that some birds underwent physical and behavioral modifications to thrive on a food source with little competition.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by kikkoslider...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 21:13:28 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 9:13pm

Originally posted by kikko

slider it's plain to see that you just don't know what evolution is... natural selection etc...
not all creatures needed to change in order to survive. some were able to withstand the earth's great changes which caused widespread death among many organisms. Charles Darwin observed that not all creatures perished during these great environmental crisis and were able to reproduce, and their offspring inherited the immunities that allowed their predecessors to survive and these immunities would in turn be passed down from generation to generation. you do know who Darwin is don't you?

Oh, I do. I've deeply studied. I've just learned more than what the evolutionists will tell you. Let us quote Darwin then: "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."
--Charles Darwin, Origin of Species
The household item that exemplifies this is the common mousetrap. The full list of parts is: Hammer, Spring, Holding Bar, Catch, and the Platform. Without a single one of these parts, no mice can be caught. Thus, all of the parts were A. purposely designed, and B. assembled simultaneously.
In nature, we see countless animals that also have this "condition". Since you didnt seek those truthes for yourself, i'll elaborate here about the common and antievolutionary woodpecker.

I'm not going to be so bold as to think you know what a woodpecker does so let me tell you. it pounds its skull into solid wood to find food.
Its beak, designed to hammer its way into the hardest of trees, is unlike that of other birds. To help with the absorption of the constant pounding, the woodpecker has uniquely resilient tail feathers. It uses its tail feathers and feet to form a tripod effect as it clings to the tree. Even its feet are specially designed to enable it to move up, down, and around, vertical tree trunks. The feet of the woodpecker have two toes in front and two toes in back. Most other birds have three toes in front and one in back.
When the woodpecker braces itself to chisel a hole, the tail feathers bend and spread, buttressing the bird against the rough tree surface. In this way feet and tail form an effective tripod to stabilize the blows of hammering into wood.
The bird even has a piece of cartilage in its head that acts as a shock absorber.
The tongue of a woodpecker is in a class by itself. When chiseling into a tree, the woodpecker will occasionally come across insect tunnels. Its tongue is long and slender and is used to probe these tunnels for insects. The tip is like a spearhead with a number of barbs or hairs pointing rearward. This facilitates securing the insect while transporting it to the beak. A sticky glue-like substance coats the tongue to aid in this process as well." The bird produces another secretion to dissolve the glue on swallowing.
Its predecessor thrusted its head into a tree upon seeing an insect and crushed its own skull. it was too late to think of a thicker skull, cartilage, and stronger tail feathers.
Educate yourself.Apparently, you forgot Evolution was still a theory.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 18:28:45 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 6:28pm

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Very funny stuff. Thanks.

It's not a comedy... though I do get how it might be funny to some that religious folks can be so ignorant in such basic science.
Maybe I owe you an apology. I didn't think you were being serious. I thought you were conducting another 'experiment', creating straw men and then presenting sarcastic counter-arguments that mirrored your opponent's arguments.

If what you wrote is in any way representative of what is commonly taught as a scientific response to the question of where the universe came from and how it came to its present state, it's nothing but a poorly reasoned-out house of cards. The Random Chance argument is built on speculation. Does science not know the difference between probability and possibility?

do you know what the difference is between probability and possibility? Do you know what the words "random chance" means? The argument presented by snowboardslider did not deny possibility but denied probability by the use of the words "random chance". So, I am showing how probable it is.

besides, if you want to talk about a poorly reasoned-out house of cards, lets talk about the fake science called "intelligent design". That is the most absurd argument for god trying to pass as science I have ever heard.

Or, let's talk about what creationist believe. Things just magically appeared. That's of course a much better explanation that has absolutely no evidence, reason, or even a poorly reasoned-out house of cards to back it up. The argument simply is... it was written in the bible so it must be true. You win. with evidence like that, how can I NOT believe in creation?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by carebear Not...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:24:53 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 3:24pm

Originally posted by carebear

Not really. namsapalooza's right on. In both cases, they are committing themselves to death for some other person. Well wait, maybe not...in the case of the OSL, they actually DID go through with it so I guess they were technically a little truer to their cause.

Very cute big smile. I can't tell if you're doing that to jab me in the side trying to lighten the mood a little, or if it's more of an evil smile.
Regardless, I'm curious: What is your theory about what happened to Jesus near the end of his time here on Earth?

EDIT: Wait, now I remember. Don't bother answering that, because I remember that you don't believe Jesus was ever here in the first place... carry on...

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:59:27 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 2:59pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Very funny stuff. Thanks.

It's not a comedy... though I do get how it might be funny to some that religious folks can be so ignorant in such basic science.
Maybe I owe you an apology. I didn't think you were being serious. I thought you were conducting another 'experiment', creating straw men and then presenting sarcastic counter-arguments that mirrored your opponent's arguments.

If what you wrote is in any way representative of what is commonly taught as a scientific response to the question of where the universe came from and how it came to its present state, it's nothing but a poorly reasoned-out house of cards. The Random Chance argument is built on speculation. Does science not know the difference between probability and possibility?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:54:10 +0000
Author: carebear
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 2:54pm

Originally posted by robnezz23

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by batmanwest

Originally posted by snowboardslider

i'm glad I can talk about God somewhere with other believers and even get points for it!
I think this sums it all up a little better...if you ask me.

Concurred.

This is also the only thread on this forum where you don't get spammed for fracking quadruple posting. Double standards much?

Originally posted by robnezz23

many of Jesus' friends and followers who got to hang around him were willing to be put to death in defense of who they thought/knew he was.

So did Osama bin Laden's followers.

I'd argue that killing yourself and being killed are two different things entirely. Plus, these people actually witnessed Jesus performing miracles like healing people and walking on water.

Not really. namsapalooza's right on. In both cases, they are committing themselves to death for some other person. Well wait, maybe not...in the case of the OSL, they actually DID go through with it so I guess they were technically a little truer to their cause.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapalooza Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:47:43 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 2:47pm

Originally posted by namsapalooza

Originally posted by batmanwest

Originally posted by snowboardslider

i'm glad I can talk about God somewhere with other believers and even get points for it!
I think this sums it all up a little better...if you ask me.

Concurred.

This is also the only thread on this forum where you don't get spammed for fracking quadruple posting. Double standards much?

Originally posted by robnezz23

many of Jesus' friends and followers who got to hang around him were willing to be put to death in defense of who they thought/knew he was.

So did Osama bin Laden's followers.

I'd argue that killing yourself and being killed are two different things entirely. Plus, these people actually witnessed Jesus performing miracles like healing people and walking on water.

Jesus Christ : How many of you guys went to schools...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:17:32 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 2:17pm

How many of you guys went to schools where they taught you creationism?

Jesus Christ : Fellow christian and snowboarder...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:07:04 +0000
Author: samolo
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 2:07pm

Fellow christian and snowboarder checking in!
Kudos for starting this post, I'll check it regularly!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslideri'm...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 13:55:55 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 1:55pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

i'm sure that may make perfect sense to you. but i think i'll have to be close minded towards evolution until proper proof is provided...but isn't that the way you feel about God in general. false until prooven otherwise?

See, the difference between god and science is that there is actual evidence that can be demonstrated. The proof does not require "faith". The proof of evolution is in the many papers, textbooks, etc. out there. Just because you have not read it does not mean the proof does not exist or isn't "proper".

The DNA evidence that Man and Chimp (different species) were descended from a common ancestor is irrefutable. The evidence can be reproduced and demonstrated easily.

The so called evidence for god cannot be reproduced or demonstrated at all. In fact, I have yet to see even a single shred of proper or improper evidence. There is literally ZERO evidence for god.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by batmanwest Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 13:46:55 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 1:46pm

Originally posted by batmanwest

Originally posted by snowboardslider

i'm glad I can talk about God somewhere with other believers and even get points for it!
I think this sums it all up a little better...if you ask me.

Concurred.

This is also the only thread on this forum where you don't get spammed for fracking quadruple posting. Double standards much?

Originally posted by robnezz23

many of Jesus' friends and followers who got to hang around him were willing to be put to death in defense of who they thought/knew he was.

So did Osama bin Laden's followers.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by fishkur Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 13:45:23 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 1:45pm

Originally posted by fishkur

Originally posted by vfrdude04

Did anybody see the new Colbert Report on Comedy Central this week? He was ripping on Christmas and God in general, i'm surprised the Network would put on stuff like that. It makes me think twice about watching Comedy Central since they've went so sacrilegious.

So they're going to hell, right? Ooops, I guess hell would have to exist for that to happen. My bad.

I fully understand that the Bible speaks (in volumes) about hell. Plenty of books talk about a man that wiggles down your chimney once a year to deposit presents.

Shall I assume that both are truth because it is written down and published?

No. But choose to believe because Jesus talked about hell more than any other subject, and also because many of Jesus' friends and followers who got to hang around him were willing to be put to death in defense of who they thought/knew he was. Otherwise, why would they have chosen to be persecuted and die for the cause?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 13:11:51 +0000
Author: fishkur
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 1:11pm

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Very funny stuff. Thanks.

It's not a comedy... though I do get how it might be funny to some that religious folks can be so ignorant in such basic science.

Okay.. let's try you then, the non-religious, yet scientific. Do any of these seem familiar to you: Cambrain explosion, irreducable complexity, Haekles drawings.... id like you to check out these for yourself and see what truth is in them. while you're at it, explain to me how the platypus, woodpecker, and bombardier beetle evolved into their current state. Ill help you out.. they didnt.
my friend, evolution is the science of ignorance. But please check these out for yourself. Reminder: if you don't check them out, you are Close-Minded.

Key difference between "close-minded science people" and "close-minded religious people" though....
Darwin actually wrote a chapter about the Cambrian explosion try to address it. Who is the ignorant one?

Not sure where you're going with the beetle/woodpecker thing/platypus thing. Are you just dismissing efficient biological systems or successful defense mechanisms because you don't understand them?

As for the irreducible complexity thing...thanks that was a good read!

The guy who made it up basically had to eat his own words.
from wikipedia:
[quote]While testifying at the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trial Behe conceded that there are no peer-reviewed papers supporting his claims...

...nor are there any peer-reviewed articles supporting his argument that certain complex molecular structures are "irreducibly complex."/[quote]

I highly recommend everyone follow snowboardslidur's advice and read up on irreducible complexity, specifically the section "Argument from ignorance"

Excellent, and fully conclusive evidence of god!

Jesus Christ : slider it's plain to see...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 13:07:52 +0000
Author: kikko
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 1:07pm

slider it's plain to see that you just don't know what evolution is... natural selection etc...
not all creatures needed to change in order to survive. some were able to withstand the earth's great changes which caused widespread death among many organisms. Charles Darwin observed that not all creatures perished during these great environmental crisis and were able to reproduce, and their offspring inherited the immunities that allowed their predecessors to survive and these immunities would in turn be passed down from generation to generation. you do know who Darwin is don't you?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:44:55 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 12:44pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by sgreen

Very funny stuff. Thanks.

It's not a comedy... though I do get how it might be funny to some that religious folks can be so ignorant in such basic science.

Okay.. let's try you then, the non-religious, yet scientific. Do any of these seem familiar to you: Cambrain explosion, irreducable complexity, Haekles drawings.... id like you to check out these for yourself and see what truth is in them. while you're at it, explain to me how the platypus, woodpecker, and bombardier beetle evolved into their current state. Ill help you out.. they didnt.
my friend, evolution is the science of ignorance. But please check these out for yourself. Reminder: if you don't check them out, you are Close-Minded.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by vfrdude04Did...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:36:53 +0000
Author: fishkur
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 12:36pm

Originally posted by vfrdude04

Did anybody see the new Colbert Report on Comedy Central this week? He was ripping on Christmas and God in general, i'm surprised the Network would put on stuff like that. It makes me think twice about watching Comedy Central since they've went so sacrilegious.

So they're going to hell, right? Ooops, I guess hell would have to exist for that to happen. My bad.

I fully understand that the Bible speaks (in volumes) about hell. Plenty of books talk about a man that wiggles down your chimney once a year to deposit presents.

Shall I assume that both are truth because it is written down and published?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by batmanwest Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:25:45 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 12:25pm

Originally posted by batmanwest

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by forumfreak53

Hey Snowboardslider!
Thanks for this great forum...I think it's great way to connect with fellow believers in Christ. It's also nice for one not to be reading and all of a sudden,"!@$?*!@%!!!"

Bravo for you who made it!
thanks dude! i'm glad I can talk about God somewhere with other believers and even get points for it!

I think this sums it all up a little better...if you ask me.
no dude, i actually desire to be a part of the community and reply to threads(in non spamming ways). you are blind if you think that my comments are spamming. i am recently replying a lot because i found out how to quote previous posts that i didn't know how to reply to before. so yes, i am getting my 5 points a day(currently)because there are many un-answered quotes i had and have yet to reply to.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:21:55 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 12:21pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by robnezz23

OK, hang on... By "all animals were in the water," what you are implying is a common ancestor, right? Like one single cell that started all of life as we know it.
But if "humans are humans... apes are apes" then you are also saying that each species spontaneously sprung to life. And humans have always been of the human "species" but at one point we lived in the water.
Which is it?

I'm not sure if you're trolling me or you actually don't understand...

I am indeed implying a common ancestor. And there is no contradiction in what I've said. How does "humans are humans and apes are apes" mean that these species spontaneously sprung to life?

Apes and humans had a common ancestor that was neither ape nor human. And at that point in time humans and apes didn't even exist. For simplicity, the concept is that this common ancestor split into 2 branches, humans and apes. And it was only then that humans and apes existed.

Let me clarify something... When I read "apes" and continued to use "apes vs humans" I assumed that snowboardslider was referring to the monkeys, chimps, gorilla, etc. we see today.

Technically, the "great apes" is the super family classification that includes all primates without tails. This includes humans. But don't let that confuse you... it just means that humans are much more closely related to a chimp than a monkey.

Chimps are the closest to humans. It has been proven (using DNA) that chimps share a single common ancestor (which does not exist today). We would have to go back further to find a common ancestor between humans and gorillas... we would have to back even further to find a common ancestor between humans and monkeys. That's how evolution works. We branch off into different species. and those species don't exist until there are enough changes in the dna to be classified as a "new" species.

i'm sure that may make perfect sense to you. but i think i'll have to be close minded towards evolution until proper proof is provided...but isn't that the way you feel about God in general. false until prooven otherwise?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by vfrdude04Did...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 12:08:41 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 12:08pm

Originally posted by vfrdude04

Did anybody see the new Colbert Report on Comedy Central this week? He was ripping on Christmas and God in general, i'm surprised the Network would put on stuff like that. It makes me think twice about watching Comedy Central since they've went so sacrilegious.
yeah, sadly, that is typical of comedy. itss hard to find clean ones. check out 'bananas'.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by batmanwest Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 11:39:22 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 11:39am

Originally posted by batmanwest

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by forumfreak53

Hey Snowboardslider!
Thanks for this great forum...I think it's great way to connect with fellow believers in Christ. It's also nice for one not to be reading and all of a sudden,"!@$?*!@%!!!"

Bravo for you who made it!
thanks dude! i'm glad I can talk about God somewhere with other believers and even get points for it!

I think this sums it all up a little better...if you ask me.
no, not really. is is nice to get points, but i am more interested in what people have to say. if it seems that way. itss because i just found out how to reply to previous posts. but if you will notice, isve not been spamming. what i reply is legit conversation.

Jesus Christ : Did anybody see the new Colbert...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 11:36:41 +0000
Author: vfrdude04
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 11:36am

Did anybody see the new Colbert Report on Comedy Central this week? He was ripping on Christmas and God in general, i'm surprised the Network would put on stuff like that. It makes me think twice about watching Comedy Central since they've went so sacrilegious.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowboardslider Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 11:32:26 +0000
Author: batmanwest
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 11:32am

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by forumfreak53

Hey Snowboardslider!
Thanks for this great forum...I think it's great way to connect with fellow believers in Christ. It's also nice for one not to be reading and all of a sudden,"!@$?*!@%!!!"

Bravo for you who made it!
thanks dude! i'm glad I can talk about God somewhere with other believers and even get points for it!

I think this sums it all up a little better...if you ask me.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 Thoughts...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 11:30:49 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 11:30am

Originally posted by robnezz23

Thoughts for the day:

Religion tells you what you can do to get to God. Gospel tells you what God has done by coming to you.
Religion is: I obey, therefore I am accepted. Gospel is: I am accepted, therefore I obey.
sums it all up. no strings attached

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreen Originally...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 11:26:09 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 11:26am

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by namsapalooza

^ mech is right. there's no such thing as macro-evolution, it's all micro.
incidentally, 'species' are merely a classification system made up by scientists to help them sort living organisms. if you look at the genetic code of these organisms, you'll find that they're often a lot more similar than you'd think. once you have this in mind, it's a lot less of a leap to think of one type of animal evolving into another (like the birds coming from dinosaurs mentioned above).
But a leap, nonetheless.
a leap of faith i dare say. like how it takes more faith to believe that an animal could actually change from one state to another...without seeing it for yourself, is quite a leap for mankind. people do say the same thing about God though. like, we believe in things unseen. personally, i have experienced God and know He's real. but if you can't even believe that my experience is real...how do you expect me to believe in evolution, which you claim is real? you haven't seen things evolve from dinosour to bird, or have you? like i thought. a leap of faith.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by forumfreak53Hey...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 11:17:56 +0000
Author: snowboardslider
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 11:17am

Originally posted by forumfreak53

Hey Snowboardslider!
Thanks for this great forum...I think it's great way to connect with fellow believers in Christ. It's also nice for one not to be reading and all of a sudden,"!@$?*!@%!!!"

Bravo for you who made it!
thanks dude! i'm glad I can talk about God somewhere with other believers and even get points for it!

Jesus Christ : Thoughts for the day:Religion...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 08:28:58 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 8:28am

Thoughts for the day:

Religion tells you what you can do to get to God. Gospel tells you what God has done by coming to you.
Religion is: I obey, therefore I am accepted. Gospel is: I am accepted, therefore I obey.

Jesus Christ : Hey Snowboardslider!Thanks for...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:35:04 +0000
Author: forumfreak53
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 7:35am

Hey Snowboardslider!
Thanks for this great forum...I think it's great way to connect with fellow believers in Christ. It's also nice for one not to be reading and all of a sudden,"!@$?*!@%!!!"

Bravo for you who made it!

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 OK,...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 07:11:46 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 7:11am

Originally posted by robnezz23

OK, hang on... By "all animals were in the water," what you are implying is a common ancestor, right? Like one single cell that started all of life as we know it.
But if "humans are humans... apes are apes" then you are also saying that each species spontaneously sprung to life. And humans have always been of the human "species" but at one point we lived in the water.
Which is it?

I'm not sure if you're trolling me or you actually don't understand...

I am indeed implying a common ancestor. And there is no contradiction in what I've said. How does "humans are humans and apes are apes" mean that these species spontaneously sprung to life?

Apes and humans had a common ancestor that was neither ape nor human. And at that point in time humans and apes didn't even exist. For simplicity, the concept is that this common ancestor split into 2 branches, humans and apes. And it was only then that humans and apes existed.

Let me clarify something... When I read "apes" and continued to use "apes vs humans" I assumed that snowboardslider was referring to the monkeys, chimps, gorilla, etc. we see today.

Technically, the "great apes" is the super family classification that includes all primates without tails. This includes humans. But don't let that confuse you... it just means that humans are much more closely related to a chimp than a monkey.

Chimps are the closest to humans. It has been proven (using DNA) that chimps share a single common ancestor (which does not exist today). We would have to go back further to find a common ancestor between humans and gorillas... we would have to back even further to find a common ancestor between humans and monkeys. That's how evolution works. We branch off into different species. and those species don't exist until there are enough changes in the dna to be classified as a "new" species.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by sgreenVery...

Thu, 08 Dec 2011 06:25:52 +0000
Author: mech9t5
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/08/2011 at 6:25am

Originally posted by sgreen

Very funny stuff. Thanks.

It's not a comedy... though I do get how it might be funny to some that religious folks can be so ignorant in such basic science.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by namsapalooza^...

Wed, 07 Dec 2011 23:32:14 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/07/2011 at 11:32pm

Originally posted by namsapalooza

^ mech is right. there's no such thing as macro-evolution, it's all micro.
incidentally, 'species' are merely a classification system made up by scientists to help them sort living organisms. if you look at the genetic code of these organisms, you'll find that they're often a lot more similar than you'd think. once you have this in mind, it's a lot less of a leap to think of one type of animal evolving into another (like the birds coming from dinosaurs mentioned above).
But a leap, nonetheless.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by mech9t5 Originally...

Wed, 07 Dec 2011 23:24:32 +0000
Author: sgreen
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/07/2011 at 11:24pm

Originally posted by mech9t5

Originally posted by snowboardslider

Originally posted by robnezz23

^You could make that claim about all religions, spiritual groups, or cults. So are you against all world religions? And how do you answer the eternal question: Why are you here?
random chance. ya see my close minded friend, zillions of years ago, there was a cosmic explosion(even though, scientifically, matter can't randomly appear). furthermore, there was an omeba, who evolved into a water mamal, who evolved into a land mamal(somehow, although we haven't YET found all the evidence, nor have we discovered how this being could shapeshift without dying. after all, we are talking about survival of the fitest, during this evolution, they would be weak, and probably eatin), who evolved into a bigger animal, who evolved into an ape, who evolved into a human(who is still evolving, F.Y.I.).

Random Chance
Religious people like to talk about how improbable it is that life came from random chance however, it seems none of these people making this assertion has any knowledge of probabilities. We are talking probabilities in a HUGE universe. There are literally trillions and trillions of stars in the universe.

The probability that a planet is in the "sweet spot" distance from their sun (also called the goldilocks zone) so it is not too hot/cold, water to be liquid, etc. for life is very low. Maybe 1 million to 1? 1 billion to 1? Some estimate that there are 100 trillion trillion stars in the universe. Based on the probability of 1 billion to 1, that would mean there are 100000 trillion planets in the sweet spot (100 trillion trillion divided by 1 billion).

And in fact, they have recently found a planet in the goldilocks zone orbiting a star that is almost the twin of our own sun. It has a 290 day year and 22C temp (72F). It's far away though (600 light years). The bottom line is that there are likely PLENTY of planets in the goldilocks zone.

So, then we ask what is the probability of life on one of these planets? 1 billion to 1? 1 trillion to 1? Even at 1 trillion to 1, we have 100000 trillion planets in the sweet spot. This means there are 100,000 planets in the universe with life.

You just have to realize how big the universe is and you'll see that "random chance" becomes 100% certainty.

Where did matter come from?
Why is it that religious people always ask the question where did all the matter come from in the big bang? It MUST have been created. Well, why don't they ask the same about god? where did god come from? he MUST have been created. Oh but god is god. That's not an answer.

Matter/Energy cannot be created or destroy. Is it not possible that matter has always existed? Just as you believe god has always existed? Why would you assume matter/energy HAD to be created?

The Big Bang
There are theories on how this happened. But they are theories only.

There is one called string theory which says there are multiple universes and occasionally they bump into each other.

Another theory (which I think is falling out of favour) is the expansion/contraction theory where the universe simply cycles from expansion to contraction. When we get to the contraction stage, the universe collapses in on itself and then explodes. Meaning the big bang happens more than once and is cyclical.

Evolution
There can be no doubt about evolution. It has been proven time and time again. Most religious people who dispute evolution just don't understand it. Evolution is many many many SMALL changes over LONG periods of time. The mutations didn't make them weaker, if it did, they died out. If it made them stronger, they had more babies.

For example, from water to land... since all animals were in the water, it was a huge advantage to be able to get food from land (no competition). Any animal that made it to land would flourish. And it wasn't an immediate "oh, I'm gonna grow lungs today". It was more like I can spend 5 mins out of water, next mutation was 6 mins, and so on until they could stay on land indefinitely.

Last... humans did not evolve from apes, chimps, monkeys, etc. Humans are humans. We changed over time from an ape-like creature. Apes are apes, chimps are chimps. We once looked, acted, etc. very much like apes/chimps but we were NOT them. We are COUSINS and NOT descendants.
Very funny stuff. Thanks.

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by robnezz23 OK,...

Wed, 07 Dec 2011 10:52:49 +0000
Author: namsapalooza
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/07/2011 at 10:52am

Originally posted by robnezz23

OK, hang on... By "all animals were in the water," what you are implying is a common ancestor, right? Like one single cell that started all of life as we know it.
But if "humans are humans... apes are apes" then you are also saying that each species spontaneously sprung to life. And humans have always been of the human "species" but at one point we lived in the water.
Which is it?

who are you quoting? i don't see anything written by anyone that says what you're quoting.

EDIT: nevermind, i just saw that you're quoting mech's original post about evolution.

if you had read my post, you wouldn't be asking this question. it's the last post on the previous page.

Jesus Christ : OK, hang on...By "all...

Wed, 07 Dec 2011 10:13:59 +0000
Author: robnezz23
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/07/2011 at 10:13am

OK, hang on... By "all animals were in the water," what you are implying is a common ancestor, right? Like one single cell that started all of life as we know it.
But if "humans are humans... apes are apes" then you are also saying that each species spontaneously sprung to life. And humans have always been of the human "species" but at one point we lived in the water.
Which is it?

Jesus Christ : Originally posted by snowj720 the...

Wed, 07 Dec 2011 10:09:26 +0000
Author: snowj720
Subject: 39508
Posted: Dec/07/2011 at 10:09am

Originally posted by snowj720

the bible was written years after the stories in it took place, it was translated, re-written, re-translated, re-written, etc. Man wrote the bible, mans own motives and interpretations were filtered into most of the re-writes.
If anyone today were to say-"My invisible friend told me to write this book" we'd lock them up in a nut house.

Carlin broke religion down pretty well-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE&feature=fvst
[TUBE]www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE&feature=fvst[/TUBE]