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Topic ClosedGeez, why is everyone dying-

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Shakazulu View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Geez, why is everyone dying-
    Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 5:53am
Just got back from rushing my girlfriend to the airport.  Her 32 year old sister apparently has some sort of kidney ailment thats incredibly serious.  The sucky part is thats its totally treatable, but she doesn't believe in western medicine and won't let the doctors help her (recently decided to become a spiritualistic hippy).  She is staying in bed until she passes on now.  Whomever she was dating isn't there anymore, and she didn't want to die alone (wasn't even going to tell the rest of the family), so she called my girlfriend and told her the deal.
 
Mai is alternating between total shock and anger right now.  But she is flying there now.  I don't even know what to think.  Her sister just seems like she wants to die, which makes no sense.  A few months ago she was hiking and living off the land, and now she doesn't want to be here anymore.  Its been very clearly explained to her that her life can be saved easilly and she simply doesn't care.
 
Both Mai and myself are really struggling trying to respect her beliefs, either way this really sucks.   I talk to her mother all the time on the phone and I'm not supposed to anything to her about all this, as her sister doesn't want her to know.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 6:01am
Wow Shak that sucks so much.  It really puts your gf in a tough spot. 

I am also trying to deal with the passing of a close family member.  It's never easy, but I think it's always harder when it comes at such an early age.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 6:48am
WOW, ... that sucks beyond comprehension. On 1 hand you want to respect her wishes, but on the other hand you want to try and do something that will get her to seek treatment because you don't want to lose her.
 
I have to think thats going to be pretty rough on her Mom though, are they estranged or something?
 
I'm sorry that you or any other person has to go through this.
A thermos keeps hot stuff hot, and cold stuff cold.....BUT HOW DOES IT KNOW???
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 7:00am
Actually, everyone has good relationships with the exception of my girlfriend and her sister.  Though Mai hadn't seen her family in years, she speaks on the phone with most of them all the time.  The exception being her sister.  She moved out and went on to the corporate world, then decided to drop everything and go the spiritual path recently.  Her and my girlfriend hadn't spoken in years prior to this summer.
 
I'm sitting at home, trying to get the focus to head to the office and it just gets worse.  I checked the mail and her sister must have been thinking about this for a few days, because she sent a check for a her life savings and a note to cash it and give it to her mom when she passes.  I just took it out of the mailbox. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 8:03am
This is reminiscent of the book The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down.  It's about a Hmong girl that develops epilepsy, but her parents don't believe in western medicine.  It's a pretty tough situation to be in.  Hope everything turns out for the best.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 8:09am
woah bro im sorry that sucks...its gotta be hard for both of you even if you werent close, losing someone you know if always hard no matter what, if you need anything were all here for you and your gf and both of your families
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 8:20am
Originally posted by percept

This is reminiscent of the book The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down.  It's about a Hmong girl that develops epilepsy, but her parents don't believe in western medicine.  It's a pretty tough situation to be in.  Hope everything turns out for the best.
 
Its tough because up until just recently, she was totally fine with it.  Either way, I'm letting go of that aspect right now and respecting her wishes.  Just really strange to see someone so young that wants to die.
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percept View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 8:48am
I'm sure she doesn't want to die, she probably sees it a different way.  Has she thought about living it up until her time comes?  Or is she completely bed ridden or too weak to do anything?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 8:58am

Your right, she means it a different way.  Paraphrasing a bit here, but "her spirit has already left this world, she is just waiting for her body to follow".

Doctors say she could be hiking mountains again in three weeks if she wanted.  She is choosing to spend her time in bed until she dies.  Apparently its one of those things that would not normally be life threatening in the modern era, but is lethal if you don't treat it.  I still don't have all the details back yet.  My girlfriend is going to speak with the doctor again.  Her sister will now only speak with an acupuncture specialist out in the jungle somewhere (they are on a remote island in hawaii), who said she needs medical treatment as well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 9:57am
Wow...

It sucks not being able to help her coz she doesn't want to be treated.

I'm sorry that you and your girlfriend are in this situation.

I hope she changes her mind soon enough before it's too late.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 5:41pm
Well, my girlfriend dragged her into a doctor, she is not going to die.  However there is a question as to whether she is sane enough to take care of herself now, so we are working through that with the rest of the family.  Apparently even the people in her cult or whatever a fearing for her well being and think she is a danger to herself.
 
I can't figure this one out at all, she spent two weeks at my house less than a month ago, and while she was definately on a spiritual kick, she wasn't insane.  My girlfriend says she doesn't even recognize her from a few weeks ago.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 6:01pm
Originally posted by shakazulu12

Well, my girlfriend dragged her into a doctor, she is not going to die.  However there is a question as to whether she is sane enough to take care of herself now, so we are working through that with the rest of the family.  Apparently even the people in her cult or whatever a fearing for her well being and think she is a danger to herself.
 
I can't figure this one out at all, she spent two weeks at my house less than a month ago, and while she was definately on a spiritual kick, she wasn't insane.  My girlfriend says she doesn't even recognize her from a few weeks ago.


this is good news.  at least her cult isn't stubborn enough in their beliefs to ignore the value of life. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 6:50pm
I really should stop calling it a cult, but I don't really have any other way to describe it.  My girlfriend says they seem pretty normal, just have different views on life, which I totally don't have a problem with.  They are at a loss as to how she gotthis way, like she has been brainwashing herself the past few weeks for no reason and to no end purpose.  At least I can sleep a little easier tonight.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 8:23pm
i'm sorry for whatever you, your girlfriend, and anyone else is going through. it's tough.

shaka, i know you're more or less accepting of it or what have you. my question is this, what is the problem with dying? we're dying when we're born. it's a simple fact of life. we're all so very afraid of death because we're reared that way. death is not something to discuss or to be embraced. spiritual, hippie, cult, however people choose to dice it, that's how it goes.

we're all brainwashed to a degree, wouldn't you all agree with that? couldn't it just be possible that she IS ready to go? simply because her family members aren't ready to let them go, doesn't mean that that person is not ready to go. it's possible that she has already gone through the stages of grieving and acceptance of her death and welcomed it.

and what's wrong with not taking western medicine? there are TONS of people that don't follow western medicine. hell, before western civilization came along, practically NO ONE lived on western medicine. do some research. you'll find that prior to western medicine becoming so large and overpowering, the most common causes of death were accidents and the like. now the most common causes of death is cancer, heart disease, lower respiratory disorders, diabetes, etc.

don't take this the wrong way, please. i'm a pre-med/bio major myself, however, we have to accept that maybe a person has accepted death already. just because we don't accept it doesn't mean they're not ready to die. that'd be unfair now, wouldn't it?
peace.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/27/2008 at 9:16pm

It sounds like there's a little more going on then simply not wanting to see "western" doctors. I'm not going to try to diagnose someone based solely on a post to SS - but i will say this, there are certain situations were treatment both physical and mental - can be forced on someone against thier will if they are in a mental state that would prohibit them from being of sound mind and judgement.

 
on a side note - this "cult" you're talking about - what's the name of it?
 
I'm here for the gangbang....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2008 at 3:18am
shtook SHAKA. shtook. that sucks man... but you gotta let people live their life. even if it means they choose to die. it sounds trite, but i believe if you don't let people live their life, what's the point? i think it's irrational and crazy for people not to take advantage of "Western" medicine, but it's not my decision. it sounds stupid and Matrix-like, but it all boils down to choice.
 
on a side note, let me know if there is ANYTHING we can do. we'll be thinking of you guys.
2010? More Like 1910
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2008 at 6:58am

You guys are totally right about respecting the way people choose to live their life.  And sorry if my posts sound like I have a problem with that.  My problem with her dying is that she is dragging my girlfriend and I into it and telling us to lie to her own mother/rest of amily about it.  Why is this something we should be forced into the position to do?  What if I believe her mother has the right to know?  What is her mother going to think when she finds out me and my girlfriend knew she was going to die and denied her a chance to speak with her daughter again?  That is all I'm really pissed off about.  To be honest, I don't have a problem with someone refusing western medicine, or following their beliefs.  I do have a problem when people force those beliefs onto other people and then are totally unaccepting of the fact that other people may not be as inclined as they are to go along with them.  thats where the source of anger is in.  I talk to my girlfriends mother all the time, I have probably spoken to her ten times since my girlfriend left.  Each time she has asked where my girlfriend was and I have had to lie about it each time.  How do you think that makes me feel? 

Oh, and the information about her liver was all wrong, its another problem that isn't even that serious, she wasn't going to die anyway, just be sick all the time.  Even the healer agreed with this last night.  But now she is refusing to believe any of them western medicine or traditional medicine.  She can choose to die if she wants to, but why drag so many other people into it with absolutely no regard for their feelings in the matter?
 
I should stop calling it a cult, like I said before, its more like some kind of colony or something like that.  In fact, I even spoke to some of them last night and they actually sympathized with my situation.  Going further, I actually RESPECT their way of life tremendously.  I live the exact opposite of how they do.  I bust my behind 18 hours a day, as a slave to my business.  It gives me gratification and I like it.  However, don't think for a second I have never been in envy of those who have cast away all the stupid troubles of the modern world and live a simple life.  In fact, the more I work, the more I respect people like that. 
 
Anyway, I'm blabbering and I don't think I can accurately describe what I'm trying to say. My anger about being dragged into it like this is tainting the way I'm describing it.  At the end of the day, if she chooses to go, I wish her the best in her transition.  I just don't like the lies about it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2008 at 7:09am
By the way, thanks for letting me vent guys.  I haven't really spoken to anyone really about this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2008 at 7:30am
it does sound like a cult (FYI)... is it the catholic church?
2010? More Like 1910
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2008 at 7:31am
ps - sounds like you need to either:
 
A) buy more motorcycle stuff
B) buy more snowboard stuff
OR
C) all of the aboveLOL
2010? More Like 1910
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2008 at 8:10am
Originally posted by esy.iam

i'm sorry for whatever you, your girlfriend, and anyone else is going through. it's tough.

shaka, i know you're more or less accepting of it or what have you. my question is this, what is the problem with dying? we're dying when we're born. it's a simple fact of life. we're all so very afraid of death because we're reared that way. death is not something to discuss or to be embraced. spiritual, hippie, cult, however people choose to dice it, that's how it goes.

we're all brainwashed to a degree, wouldn't you all agree with that? couldn't it just be possible that she IS ready to go? simply because her family members aren't ready to let them go, doesn't mean that that person is not ready to go. it's possible that she has already gone through the stages of grieving and acceptance of her death and welcomed it.

and what's wrong with not taking western medicine? there are TONS of people that don't follow western medicine. hell, before western civilization came along, practically NO ONE lived on western medicine. do some research. you'll find that prior to western medicine becoming so large and overpowering, the most common causes of death were accidents and the like. now the most common causes of death is cancer, heart disease, lower respiratory disorders, diabetes, etc.

don't take this the wrong way, please. i'm a pre-med/bio major myself, however, we have to accept that maybe a person has accepted death already. just because we don't accept it doesn't mean they're not ready to die. that'd be unfair now, wouldn't it?


i think the decision of whether or not to go should be made with an unclouded mind.  The fact that she was so influenced by these supernatural beliefs, imo, distorts her viewpoint a bit.  I'm sure there are people that are ready to go, but couldn't you say this about the 30 some members of heaven's gate?  In their minds, they were probably ready to go. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2008 at 9:43am
Well, I don't know if I would say her mind is clouded or not when it comes to supernatural beleifs.  Again, she can believe what she wants.  Interestingly enough, the group she is living with now does believe in the spiritualistics of beings and loving of nature, but dont support the fact that she gave up on life, particularly now that it appears her life wasn't in danger.
 
I guess what really throws me off is less than a month ago, we were hiking through the forest near my house, going crawdad fishing etc.  I thought she was a little cooky on her views but had no real issues with them.  To hear that she is giving up on life just doesn't even fit the image of the person I know.  My girlfriend says its almost impossible to communcate with her now and she doesn't even recognize her as a person.  Mai is coming back home in a couple of days, just making sure that one last test comes back ok and is just going to let her do what she wants at this point.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2008 at 9:44am
Originally posted by hoon

ps - sounds like you need to either:
 
A) buy more motorcycle stuff
B) buy more snowboard stuff
OR
C) all of the aboveLOL
 
How about a series 13 motorcycle themed snowboard? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2008 at 10:38am
dude all I have to say is that sucks. My mom had cancer a few years ago and didn't want chemo, so we were all sad, but then she finally said, "I'll do it for my kids," and so she did, but she ended up dying in 06'. Which really sucks cause I'm only 14 now... dang, Anyways I'm glad she is better and I hope that she realizes that her mind might have been clouded by her beliefs. I mean, I'm fine with that, but you gotta let them sort it out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2008 at 10:56am
Yeah, just trying to work through it.  I also think if she chooses to continue with the belief she wants to die, she needs to spend a little time relfecting on how that affects others.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/29/2008 at 2:02pm
I don't even know if I can retype the story I just got told, but I'll try.  I actually laughed a little bit.
 
They got an appointment with one of the top rated local holistic medicine guys.  He also is well versed on western medicine as well, though he obviously believes in natural cures (no argument from me there).  Anyhow, the sister proceeds to explain to him that she knows exactly what is wrong with her spirit etc and the different dimensions that she is on vs everyone else.
 
He lays her on a table, does some sort of thing with a long horn (animal one, not the instrument), blows through it (girlfriend said it was like a lord of the rings battle horn) and states that he   has rid her of the spirit that was inside of her.  No issues here from me either (like I said, believe what you want, and he understands her better than I would).
 
Then takes the time to have a talk with her and explain that she is quite possibly one of the most mis-aligned people he has ever met and that her issues with her spirit lay in the fact that she is trying to model her spirit after everyone elses who she thinks is ideal and is totally blind to herself.  From what I understand, this conversation took well over an hour and my girlfriend said it was one of the most interesting ones she had been involved in for some time.  A little background, the sister believes she knows everything about the universe right now, which is why she has blown off all the doctors that tell her anything that is against what she thinks.  She had this guy on a pedestal as far as knowledge goes and was excited for this meeting today.  He actually said she had brainwashed herself to the point of absurdity and was going way too far.  To the extent that she was killing her own body with her mind.  Pretty much what my girlfriend, myself, and those in her colony had been saying, but none of us were able to communicate with her on her terms. 
 
Anyhow, she went home and ate food for the first time in weeks without puking.  My girlfriend is staying for a while though and trying to book more time with the doctor.  The fear is that she will eventually blow him off as well and go right back to what she was doing before meeting him.  Though we are hoping thats a slim chance considering his position and the level of respect he holds amongst those in the area.
 
Anyhow, just thought I would give an update. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/29/2008 at 7:30pm
wow good idea, whoever thought of it
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