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  Quote ippollite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Review Spam
    Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 3:23am
im giving most credit on the spam hammer to DTJ here. Id also LOVE to see more mods. Its pretty evident the old guard are gone for good. Heres to hoping they switch shit up sooner rather than later. :) 
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  Quote Sintexo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 5:12am
Originally posted by derbytownjoe

if you look over at the 5 and out thread.....
the user had almost 1400 pts...
so me and ipps were thinking.... that there has to be some kind of bug in the system, when 792+79 equals 1399......

I think its just the way points are displayed.  It says you get 3 per review even though you get five, so when a review gets spammed, it thinks only 3 points get removed when really its 5.

729/3 = 243*5 = 1215

so much closer to the 1400.

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  Quote derbytownjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 5:17am
Originally posted by Sintexo

Originally posted by derbytownjoe

if you look over at the 5 and out thread.....
the user had almost 1400 pts...
so me and ipps were thinking.... that there has to be some kind of bug in the system, when 792+79 equals 1399......

I think its just the way points are displayed.  It says you get 3 per review even though you get five, so when a review gets spammed, it thinks only 3 points get removed when really its 5.

729/3 = 243*5 = 1215

so much closer to the 1400.


yea thats kinda what we were thinking....

'cept it was 

792/3 = 264*5 = 1320 + 79 = 1399...... 
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  Quote Sintexo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 5:34am
Originally posted by derbytownjoe

yea thats kinda what we were thinking....

'cept it was 

792/3 = 264*5 = 1320 + 79 = 1399...... 

Yea... that's totally what I meant. haha

Reading properly FTW
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Sintexo

Originally posted by derbytownjoe

yea thats kinda what we were thinking....

'cept it was 

792/3 = 264*5 = 1320 + 79 = 1399...... 

Yea... that's totally what I meant. haha

Reading properly FTW

Also, seeing as she joined 3 days ago and already had 1400 points... does that mean there is a bug when it comes to brand reviews, in that you can do more than 5 a day?


I think the Forum Spam counter is irrelevant as they count 3s but the total by the looks of it is still added and subtracted in 5s.  I watched as DTJ and Ipps were flagging, her Product Reviews count went down in increments of 5 and so did her total points.  As long as her total now is correct, then there's no real bug.  Just a display error on the "Points Lost" tally.

I'd be happy to be an Expert Member Mod as well! Wink haha  I nominate ctoma too, well, if he minimizes the direct attack posts to members. LOL
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  Quote Sintexo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 11:11am
In that case, we should probably remove the parts of the posts that mention it.
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 11:17am
Are the people that designed and coded this points system from SS no longer with TS?  Wouldn't it be a better solution to maximize it with the product reviews instead?  At least it's out in the open now and we all know about it.  There are a lot of short brand reviews but most were posted a LONG time ago.  I'll continue to report suspicious activity here whenever I can.  But yeah, trying to make it a secret again would still allow cheaters to prosper.

EDIT:  Or even just a simpler way to look at one member's entire list of brand reviews and be able to flag there, as is possible with product reviews.
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  Quote Sintexo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 11:37am
Honestly I've found a few bugs that I've passed along multiple times that still exist.  They will probably find a bug like this much higher on their priority to fix, but honestly I don't think anyone is really scouring the forums for things to fix.  I just think that having the posts there forever will result in more people trying to do it than helping an employee notice and try and fix it.
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 11:38am
Here are a couple more trying to break the system:

http://www.trusnow.com/profile_reviews.asp?PF=354217&view=brandreviews

http://www.trusnow.com/profile_reviews.asp?PF=354218&view=brandreviews

Seeing as how their IDs are off by just one digit and they signed up on the same date, I think it's the same person.
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  Quote Sintexo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 11:42am
How do you find people who are posting new brand reviews?  I can't even find a good way to locate people trying to do this.  Again, another good reason to take down mention of it.
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 11:49am
Sadly there's no easy way to do it.  You have to click on each brand to check.  Then the newest post is at the top.  Unfortunately, they're not dated so you then have to check their profile and reviews to see recent activity.  Then it's your call to report them here or not.  I just look for short ones that didn't put any effort into it.


EDITED: I don't know who did it but thank you, I've been made aware. Smile  No disrespect was meant at all.  Peace.
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  Quote ippollite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 1:39pm
i think i caught most of the worst offenders yesterday. Heres what you needto do to flag a brand review:

Go to the section (snowboarding----------->camping) and click on one of them.
Then a bunch of other menus appear, one of which is the brand menu.
Scroll over it (dont click on it). Then click on your brand of choice.
Scroll to the very bottom of it. 
Voila - brand reviews for that brand.
Flag review.
If you spot another one, wait for page to reload, scroll way the hell back down.
Flag review.
Go to next brand on the list. 

Then when you complete each section, go to the next one - bleh! 

Its a MAAAAAAASSSSSIIIIIIIIIVVVVVVVVEEEEEEE  pain in the nuts. Still, i expected it to be worse than it was. Thankfully there is much less exploitation of it than i thought there would be. 
That being said, i wont be piling through it again for a while. Its someone elses turn :p 
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 1:44pm
Wait, we can flag too?  I've tried flagging product reviews but the page just refreshes quickly and nothing happens.  I thought you had to be expert or staff to flag.
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  Quote derbytownjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 1:44pm
ooooooorrrrrrrr when in any specific section, say 'shoes' click at the top on 'all brands'
then you have all of the brands from which to click from.... but its easier to right-click and open each brand in a new tab to search for what/who you're looking for.


either way its WAYYYYYYYY PITA!!!!!
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  Quote Sintexo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by fj5

Wait, we can flag too?  I've tried flagging product reviews but the page just refreshes quickly and nothing happens.  I thought you had to be expert or staff to flag.

It takes 3 flag's from a regular member to spam a review, and only one from an expert/mod.  At least, I believe that's how it works.  So unless you were the third person to flag it, it would appear as if nothing happened.  The problem is if someone has a million reviews, and you aren't an expert, after the page refreshes you have to continuously keep scrolling down to find the one you left off at.

Edit:  Maybe it was 5.
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  Quote derbytownjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 1:49pm
(how it is/was supposed to work is that) normal members click on the plus or minus buttons.... 
ie. helpful or spam..... 
for every 5 'minuses' it was supposed to automatically spam/flag the review.... but personally ive never seen it work quite like that.....
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 1:52pm
So either 5 minuses, 3 regular member flags, or 1 expert/staff flags... ok, makes sense.

Well I put in my flags for below.  Anyone care to join me?



Originally posted by fj5

Here are a couple more trying to break the system:

http://www.trusnow.com/profile_reviews.asp?PF=354217&view=brandreviews

http://www.trusnow.com/profile_reviews.asp?PF=354218&view=brandreviews

Seeing as how their IDs are off by just one digit and they signed up on the same date, I think it's the same person.
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  Quote sideways99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 2:11pm
Omg, I started flagging brand reviews about 45 minutes ago and my hand has gone numb.
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  Quote ippollite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 2:56pm
i wouldnt bother dude. It was a 2 hour joint mission yesterday just to clear one persons reviews. Im pretty sure the system only actually allows for us to flag reviews. I know theres the 5 minuses and its gone theory, but i see plenty of reviews at 7 or 8 minuses still waiting on a flag. Lots of bugs in the whole flagging system im afraid. So id encourage you all to not waste too much of your own time. :) Its much faster to just pop in a link to the user profile here and DTJ will happily flag them. Ill um and ah about it :p 
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  Quote Angry Midget Yo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 2:57pm
So ultimately our flagging does nothing?  Interesting.
Sessions sucks hairy monkey balls, the end.
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  Quote ippollite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/05/2012 at 3:06pm
i cant confirm for sure. But we can test it out. Next dude that pops up, flag their reviews, ill not flag it and let it build as high as it goes. Lets see if the review ever vanishes from the site or the person who gets flagged loses points for it. It might be like the 3 point bug. Maybe they do lose the review, it just displays incorrectly. :) Lets science! 
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  Quote ctoma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/06/2012 at 3:49pm
See Jack write reviews.  Reviews suck.  See Jack lose points.

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  Quote ippollite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/06/2012 at 3:50pm
yay! a test case. Okay, heres the plan. I aint flagging it. Lets see if five negative reviews drop the points total even if it doesnt delete the actual review. 

I should also add, i know the reviews arent great, but the crew one he made a bit of an effort on. The s90s one has to go though. Dont discourage him too much please :) 
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  Quote Sintexo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/06/2012 at 4:00pm
1 flag
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/06/2012 at 6:22pm
I just gave him another NO for the S90 and he's up to 7.  It doesn't look like his points went down.  Was this method intended to punish bad reviews without adding to the spam count?

EDIT: I just flagged it now too.
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  Quote Sintexo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/06/2012 at 6:26pm
I always thought we had to "flag" the review to get it removed (3, or 5 from a regular user, whatever the magic number was).  I never thought the "yes" or "no" did anything.
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  Quote ippollite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/06/2012 at 6:29pm
Ah, i see how it works now. Just logged into my other account (without any mod powers) and the flag came up on the s90s. So yeah, it works. You have to also flag it once the flag appears. 
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/06/2012 at 6:56pm
Wait what?  I just refreshed it and it's gone.  What do you mean after the flag appears?  The flag review button is always there, isn't it?

His other review was up to minus 4 so I made it 5, and flagged it.  It's still there.
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  Quote ippollite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/06/2012 at 6:58pm
is it? I have no idea. :) Its always there for me when i log in, but thats because you know... :)  just assumed it didnt appear until the prerequisite number of no's appeared. But maybe its only the number of times it gets "flagged!"
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/06/2012 at 11:53pm
Sorry to do this to you again Ipps and Derbs, but here's another one who needs to have ALL his brand reviews taken down:

If it wasn't for his lame revive, I wouldn't have caught him so thanks to AJD13 for that!
http://www.trusnow.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42040

Ugh, he has a lot of short product reviews too:
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/07/2012 at 12:13am
Ok, so this brand review exploit has been around for a couple years I think...

OMG, looking at the Ride brand alone... oh man, this won't be fun:

I'm sure many of them already have their tshirts and goggles already:
http://www.trusnow.com/profile_points.asp?PF=300248 (355 pts from brand reviews alone)
http://www.trusnow.com/profile_points.asp?PF=312621 (360 pts ...) ==> last forum activity August 2011
http://www.trusnow.com/profile_points.asp?PF=312090 (225 pts ...) ==> last forum activity January 2011
http://www.trusnow.com/profile_points.asp?PF=291855 (285 pts ...) ==> last forum activity January 2011
http://www.trusnow.com/profile_points.asp?PF=311329 (305 pts ...) ==> last forum activity December 2010
http://www.trusnow.com/profile_points.asp?PF=301111 (175 pts ...) ==> last forum activity November 2010

Almost all of the brand reviews from above were either empty or almost no effort.

Finally, 

http://www.trusnow.com/profile_points.asp?PF=315319 (305 pts, though he put SOME thought in SOME of his)

Ok, I give up for now.  I don't know what you guys want to do about these people.  Like I said, I think they already have their tshirts, some of them goggles, but it doesn't look like they spend much time in the forums, just brand reviews.
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  Quote CassinoNorth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/07/2012 at 6:17am
Unfortunately that's the way the company sees it, reviews are worth more than adding to anything in the forum.

So as a 3 and out spammer what's more beneficial to you, 15 points from 3 reviews or 5 points from 5 posts?


I get it, it's unfortunate, but I get it.
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/07/2012 at 10:59am
Ipps, if a regular member like myself flags something (1/5), do you as an Expert Member see that somehow?  An indicator of accumulating flags from regular members?
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/07/2012 at 2:41pm
Damn only if i got onto this brand review... instead I flagged for actually putting effort into writing reviews based on my experience.
quite bs
those are a lot of points from peeps leaving "empty reviews?" dunno how that's possible.
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  Quote ippollite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/07/2012 at 5:05pm
ive heard people say that a lot on these forums. And once i go anc look at their profile im usually met with 2 lines of bullshit. I went to yours and i honestly cant think of a reason why your malavita review got pulled. 
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  Quote ctoma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/08/2012 at 11:33am
I can't believe he considered this a review:

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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/08/2012 at 11:51am
^ I flagged it first then I tried to click No (-) after but it stayed at 1.  I guess I should have clicked No (-) first?
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  Quote chillwill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/08/2012 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by ctoma

I can't believe he considered this a review:



What do you mean?  The fact that his girlfriend is a crazy cat lady doesn't help you to decide if it's a good board or not?

You sure are hard to please ctoma.  I suppose you wanted actual information and details about the snowboard and it's performance?
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  Quote chillwill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 1:10am
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  Quote chillwill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 2:56pm
Another scummy spammer.  And he didn't even wait till 4 in the morning like they usually do.

http://www.trusnow.com/profile.asp?PF=355361
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 3:39pm
These seem to be randomly generated, computer program?  Instead of just spam flagging them, can you just delete the entire account?
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  Quote ippollite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 3:47pm
its a convoluted and complex situation. :) I think the consensus went frm leave them alone and let someone delete the account to spam them anyways even if it screws up account deletion. Easiest answer, new proper mods so that the two or three who do sign in dont have to continually be online to sort it out. More mods = more options to deal with them. 
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by ippollite

ive heard people say that a lot on these forums. And once i go anc look at their profile im usually met with 2 lines of bullshit. I went to yours and i honestly cant think of a reason why your malavita review got pulled. 
Thanks for the support Ippollite I appreciate it.
but i'm still stuck with a red card, can't do em brand reviewsWink
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  Quote ippollite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 4:13pm
Alas have no powers to reverse a flag. Only staff can do it i believe. Youll have to contact one of them to get it fixed (i have zero power or influence with them too just before you ask :p). 

Id ask them to look at your malavita, dakine travel bag, and ruler boot reviews. Basically theres no doubt youve used them for their purpose based on what you wrote. The malavita is a decent review, the others okay, but way beyond the minimum. 

Borderline reviews might be the splice one and the stomp pad. Stomp pad reviews are generally bullshit to be honest. But i guess people need to know if it sticks. The problem with your review is that last line stating youll see how it goes this season - implying of course youve only really stuck it on your board and havent yet used it with snow. 
The splice one was okay, but needs just a little more comparison to other goggles when you make a claim like the field of vision is just okay. My splices seem pretty damn good to be honest. I also ride with EG2s which are great, and though the splices feel a bit smaller, the field of vision is still way beyond other goggle ive used prior to them (phenoms, targa 2s). So the Okay needs qualification - okay compared to what? 

So again, comparisons always help make the case a bit stronger and add detail to your review.

Beware of reviewing stuff though that you havent used in the place youre supposed to be using them. It might just be how you wrote (i dont think it is though), but the impression i got from a couple of your boot reviews was that you tried them on at a shop and reviewed them based on that. This is definitely the stuff of flagging. Also beware of using the same phrases ("4 stars, minus one point for..." and "they could pack out..." And beware of qualifiers like "could" in the phrase "could pack out", since they immediately tell the person reading that you dont actually know, which means you havent actually tested them anywhere near enough to comment on them. 

Hope that helps for future if you do get some reviews reinstated (the malavita should certainly be reinstated). Good luck on it! :) 
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 4:59pm
Thanks again this time for the constructive feedback. it was a little hard to swallow to be honest, but very valid.
I'll admit I have some half ass reviews but the product only commands so much attention ie stomp pads, lol its a stomp pad it sticks. done.  I forget what I wrote for it, its been awhile as for how it'll go this season...I think i took it off my old board and stuck it on my new one, Seeing if it continued to stick., So far it STUCK! i'm surprised.

As for the splice and FOV I was comparing it to my Crowbars which is a very similar goggle. I was expecting more somehow. If i'm looking I could see the inner frame through my peripherals .

as per the -1star and reason for it, I believe to be valid.  What is it that doesn't fly about it?
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  Quote ippollite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 5:55pm
Doh! posted on the wrong account... :)


...
Its curious you find splices have only an okay field of vision compared to crowbars. Each to their own. Of the two i picked up the splices precisely because they seemed like they had a bigger field of vision. i wont stress the point though because i havent ridden the crowbars, and ten minutes in a shop based on a flimsy memory tells you very little... :) 

The minus 1 star problem is the repetition of the phrase to any moderator looking through your list of reviews. They see the same phrasing and it impels you to look through to see just how much repetitive phrasing you can find. If you start seeing overly repeitive phrasing you might consider that the person reviewing it is phoning it in a bit, or worse, simply mixing their phrasing to garner points. Its not a flag in itself, but its circumstantial evidence building up to a flag/lock out. 

Heres a nuaghty secret... but genuinely we do really want to flag as many reviews as we possibly can. 

I know that sounds obverse to what you think, but reviews should only be carried out by people who can offer genuinely informed information on the product. Its not really a free for all like the forums. Youre basically doing a job for TruSnow and being paid with 5 points instead of one foryour time and trouble. So if you do a shitty job of it, we have zero hesitation to flag them. As i say then, its best when writing reviews to consider that. We're really looking for patterns of behaviour a lot of the time (continually throwing out 3 reviews then leaving every day, or repetition of stock phrases are good patterns... other patterns thti would take into consideration is padding nonsense, and type of items you choose to review - stomp pads are a great way to catch out points spammers im afraid for the very reason you listed... what can you really say about it? You can find super short reviews of them, and you can find reallllllly over the top long winded reviews of them. But you find people running to them for points precisely because they think they dont have to think about what they need to say on them. Its like shooting fish in a barrel for us just by the very action of trying to review one. Which of course sounds cyncial. There are good ways to review a stomp pad. It just needs to be informative, lack fluff, basically talk about its grip, display, its board stickiness, and ease of removal. You dont need to say too much, but you do need to say enough. Goldilocks. The fact that someone is reviewing them though is suspect and builds on the circumstantial profile thats being built in case of a duff review... :) 

I know i sound like a bureaucrat in these situations but i genuinely like the reviews section. I was very protective of it against the vagaries of the points system since i consider it a genuinely useful and helpful part of the site. If people use it for free points, it loses its legitimacy. Arguably it has long since gone way the hell beyond that line, but its nice if we can keep trying to encourage good reviews. So though i no longer trust a word that anyone writes in there, i live in hope that people may see its mutually beneficial to post good reviews over empty reviews for points. :) 

So yep, the considerations that go into flagging are complicated and arent just based on only whats written. To be sure, reviews are DEFINITELY flagged based on their own merit, but if its borderline, circumstantial evidence starts playing a bigger part in the decisions. Understand though, flags shouldnt really happen if the review is decent regardless (unless its copied from another site - as actually used to happen, or you've recopied the exact same post on a different year model for the same item). Circumstantial information only factors in if the review is kinda lame anyway. :) Hope this helps explain more than youd ever want to know about it :p
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/11/2012 at 11:24pm
Originally posted by chillwill

Another scummy spammer.  And he didn't even wait till 4 in the morning like they usually do.

http://www.trusnow.com/profile.asp?PF=355361

This guy's at it again, 3 more posts with mumbo jumbo jerseys?
Check out my channel & SUBSCRIBE! www.youtube.com/fj5
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  Quote ctoma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/13/2012 at 7:56am
Dude is trying to market his vacation planning business here....

http://www.trusnow.com/profile_posts.asp?pf=358199
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  Quote bootleg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/13/2012 at 1:23pm
wow spammer preaching promo http://www.trusnow.com/profile.asp?PF=358931
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  Quote chillwill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/17/2012 at 12:20am
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