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Topic ClosedBroken Capita Horrorscope

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Broken Capita Horrorscope
    Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 7:35pm
it has been requested so I will make its own topic.

since part of what I do for a living is RCFA (root cause fai lure analysis) I feel that I must give Capita the due diligence of the full story.

When I first got my horrorscope I mounted a set of Union Contacts to it with the supplied hardware.  I tightened them with the supplied bolts and the bindings would not secure to the board.  When I tightened a little more the supplied bolts pushed through into the base, I was not happy.

So how the board cracked...
I went for a jump and cleared the landing, about a 15' to 20' drop.  My bindings were tweaked  and my ankle paid the price.  I didn't notice any damage to the board initially.  I go out riding again and notice a crack underneath the binding.  As soon as I got back I took it to my local shop to see what they thought about the warranty.

After my local shop reviewed the damage they felt it was a warranty issue and sent the board in.


the crack initiated here (pic below)



Capita returned the board a declared that the warranty was due to the inserts fai-lure and not due to the stress exerted by the bindings during the bad landing.  My main question is that the board took 30+ days of riding with no crack.  One bad landing and it broke.  I also can't deny the fact that the screw pushed through, which is my fault and Capita's. 

Today was the first day I was able to actually evaluate the fai-lure and given the time of year and how many people try to warranty boards, I understand their skepticism.

The actual response is what I don't like, makes it seem like I did it on purpose.  The fai-lure happened when I cleared the landing, my ankle to the beating as well.  Wish they would have warrantied it.
"
Capita denied your claim and are not replacing the board because they 
feel the kind of stress that would cause that kind of breakage is not
covered under warranty."


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 7:40pm
damn, that sucks im sorry!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 7:42pm
it happens.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 7:45pm
That's a weird response, almost like its completely arbitrary on what they deem a certain "kind of stress" is.

That being said, the screw pushing through could have definitely weakened the board.

They still should have warrantied it though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 7:55pm
Sorry to see that and the outcome.

Were the Union bolts too long? After this experience, would this stop you from getting another Capita board? I just ask because I was thinking about getting a 2010 Capita Indoor but maybe the warranty wouldn't exactly be a selling point knowing this happened to you.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 8:02pm
that really sucks. at least you got plenty ride from it. maybe epoxy that stuff together and get some of that plastic stuff to fill out the hole where the screw was pushed in?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 8:05pm
Wow I haven't seen a board crack like that before.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 8:10pm
Originally posted by jimster716

Sorry to see that and the outcome.

Were the Union bolts too long? After this experience, would this stop you from getting another Capita board? I just ask because I was thinking about getting a 2010 Capita Indoor but maybe the warranty wouldn't exactly be a selling point knowing this happened to you.


no they make good boards, this isn't a typical break.


I didn't push the screw through the base as in leave a hole, I just dimpled it a little bit.  but it could have been enough.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 8:14pm
Here's an Idea

Complain to Capita sooooooo much they get fed up with you and give you a new board, or at least a rebate. Threaten to never buy any of their products ever again (they won't know if you actually do), and by then hopefully you'll have a new board.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 8:15pm
you landed bad and it cracked... it happens.  its like snapping a skateboard.... you cant warranty a board when it happens like that.  it sucks, and we all totally understand (as do the companies), but its simply not covered by warranty.. its not a manufacturing defect.

what capita was saying is that they dont think the crack happened because of some weird reason or defect, it was because you landed and snapped it.

if i were you, i would want it to be warrantied and i would have tried, but theres only so much you can do.  as far as if i think its actually a warranty issue.. its hard to say.  i have a horrorscope with contacts as well, with union hardware, and i dont see how it wouldnt fasten the board or how the screws could be long enough to go through that far unless you werent using the washers or something.  i dont know how this could be a random case for you alone.. all the screws, bindings, mounting disks, and inserts are the same on all the boards.. so....... yeah.  and even if it was because of the screw thing.. i would have to lean toward that being your fault more than "capitas fault."  like i said......... i just dont see how you could be a special case in the first place.. how could the screws go down that far?

it sucks, but thats the way it is.  i think they could have warrantied it for you, but it would have been more of a favor... and i dont think the fact that they chose not to warranty it was a bad move on their part, its totally understandable.  and since you do this kind of thing for a living apparently, you understand how hard it is to determine the cause of these things, and how hard it is for companies to decide whether or not to warranty.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 8:21pm
i thought unions where the ones who had shorter screws?

im not really getting a good idea of the damage from the pictures.  did the screws seperate the internal layers of the board? that plus the force of the landing cause the inserts to can i help you fix this thread? pm me and crack the board? is it still safe to ride or does it pull the inserts up/out with mounting the bindings now?

sorry to hear what happened.  hope your ankle is better.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2009 at 8:46pm
pre-09 unions had the slightly shorter screws.. 09s have more normal length ones, but theyre not longer than normal screws.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 1:49am
I find it a little odd that the crack is length wise on the board and underneath the binding. 

If I were you, I'd write a letter. Tell them exactly what you think, and why you think they should replace the board. I probably don't need to tell you this, but DO NOT say things like, "I'll never buy another Capita." Doing so only gives them the impression that you're unreasonable, have already made up your mind, and are just trying to get something for free. 

The way I see it, a board should be able to withstand 2 seasons of riding or 100+ days. 2 seasons of riding is going to include some bad landings etc etc. There is the occasional freak occurence of a super gnarly board breaking landing. I wasn't there, so I can't really say if this was one of those landings, but I know Joel to be a reasonable person. So, I'm inclined to say if he doesn't think his board should have broke on that landing, it probably wasn't that gnarly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 1:51am
Originally posted by snakehockey2

Here's an Idea

Complain to Capita sooooooo much they get fed up with you and give you a new board, or at least a rebate. Threaten to never buy any of their products ever again (they won't know if you actually do), and by then hopefully you'll have a new board.

Possibly one of the worst Ideas evar. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 2:16am
Capita denied your claim and are not replacing the board because they feel the kind of stress that would cause that kind of breakage is not covered under warranty."
You should respond to them, and say:

Under idea circumstances the forces necessary to cause such an issue may in fact be extreme.
However, extreme forces at play are not the only potential cause.
The other potential cause - is in fact a defect in the construction and/or materials of the board, in which case far less extreme force would be needed to cause such damage.

Given the lack of extreme forces at play when this incident took place, one can only assume that the board is in fact defective.
The flaw in your analysis of what would be necessary to cause such damage, is in that you assume that the board is 100% sound to begin with.
The whole point behind the warrante claim, is that it in NOT in fact 100%, and thus your entire context for examination is flawed.

thank you - and I look forward to recieving my replacement.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 2:22am
I find it a little odd that the crack is length wise on the board and underneath the binding. 

Yea - for some reason - that doesn't strike me as the kind of crack that would show up from just a really crappy landing. Right under the binding - along the length of the board? Just doesn't seem right, unless you have the bindings cranked down WAYYYYYyyy too tight. Even then - I don't think it would just be a straight crack from insert to insert like that, and it wouldn't be all along one side and one side only....




I'm here for the gangbang....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 2:43am
dang that sucks dude, like some have already said i think its worth a try to give them a call or seeing if you can talk to someone else.  Speaking about Fai-lure analysis, this would be a perfect case where i could do some FEA.  I could draw all the components in CAD then do an analysis on how much the screws really effected the structural integrity of the board as well as the actual forces required to cause the crack.  Sorry for the nerd talk, i couldn't help myself Confused.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 2:54am
You Nerd. TongueLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 2:58am
Originally posted by dlaw

dang that sucks dude, like some have already said i think its worth a try to give them a call or seeing if you can talk to someone else.  Speaking about Fai-lure analysis, this would be a perfect case where i could do some FEA.  I could draw all the components in CAD then do an analysis on how much the screws really effected the structural integrity of the board.  Sorry for the nerd talk, i couldn't help myself Confused.

Pretty sure Joel could do this himself, he's pretty nerdy too, he just chooses to not present that side on these forums.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 4:29am

If you file a compaint against Capita with the Better Business Bureau, they will probably give you a new board.  Everytime I have filed a complaint with the BBB, I get what I want.  The company usually wants to resolve the complaint to get that off their record. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 4:37am

At this point I have to agree with spenser, despite the fact that I wanted them to warranty the board, you cannot prove whether it was an actual defect or originated from the insert.  So it is really there choice and just a matter of what the choose to do.  I may write them a letter explaining my point but it will still be their choice.

@spenser - my hs is a 148 the original screws were NOT short enough to attach the contacts.  I had to get the short screws so I could actually get clamping force on the binding.  This isn't my first rodeo Wink
 
fmea is more applicable here dlaw.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 4:37am
I have ridden with Joel all season and he does ride hard.  However I don't feel like the board should have cracked from the bad landing.  IMHO I feel that Capita should warranty the board.  Part of my reason being he used to ride a custom that he snapped the tail on when he landed wrong.  Burton warrantied his board no questions asked.  If Capita wants to keep growing as a company they need to take care of their clients.  Between all the BS I see with Union bindings coming loose all the time, the fact that union bindings dimpled the base of this board and now the fact that they won't warranty  board I am about to the point where I will never buy anything C3.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 4:43am
Originally posted by BRUIZZA

I have ridden with Joel all season and he does ride hard.  However I don't feel like the board should have cracked from the bad landing.  IMHO I feel that Capita should warranty the board.  Part of my reason being he used to ride a custom that he snapped the tail on when he landed wrong.  Burton warrantied his board no questions asked.  If Capita wants to keep growing as a company they need to take care of their clients.  Between all the BS I see with Union bindings coming loose all the time, the fact that union bindings dimpled the base of this board and now the fact that they won't warranty  board I am about to the point where I will never buy anything C3.
 
it's true that bru has a lot less trouble with his setups than I do with mine.  I remember a day at Steamboat where I was defending the fact that my bindings hadn't come loose in awhile and it was probably a fluke.  two runs later I threw my board because the damn bindings were loose again.
 
Originally posted by heischjr

If you file a compaint against Capita with the Better Business Bureau, they will probably give you a new board.  Everytime I have filed a complaint with the BBB, I get what I want.  The company usually wants to resolve the complaint to get that off their record. 

 
capita/c3 isn't necessarily out of line.  in their position I would have come to a similar conclusion to what they did.  so I would be a hypocrite for going to the BBB. 
 
 
 
For the record, I really enjoyed the horrorscope.  I do not believe C3 is completely out of line, I was just disappointed in the result.  Given that I have broken 2 burton boards and had them warrantied easily, I was just hoping for the same.  Then again not every company has the funding that the big b has either.  Times are tough for everyone.  Maybe C3 has to be more careful about their warranties these days and I understand.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 4:46am
LOL I wish I had a video of you chucking your board because you were so pissed the bindings were loose AGAIN!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 5:06am
[/QUOTE]
 
capita/c3 isn't necessarily out of line.  in their position I would have come to a similar conclusion to what they did.  so I would be a hypocrite for going to the BBB. 
 
 
 For the record, I really enjoyed the horrorscope.  I do not believe C3 is completely out of line, I was just disappointed in the result.  Given that I have broken 2 burton boards and had them warrantied easily, I was just hoping for the same.  Then again not every company has the funding that the big b has either.  Times are tough for everyone.  Maybe C3 has to be more careful about their warranties these days and I understand.
[/QUOTE]
 
I understand.  I guess I misunderstood you.  The BBB was just an option if you felt you were treated unfairly by Capita and if you felt 100% that they owed you a new board. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 5:34am
I don't think I have ever seen a crack there before. Also definitely use the response provided by Sinix, it is awesome and I am going to save it for my use if I ever break a board. It sucks how companies make so much money, but can't warranty every board. Well it is obvious since tons of people would try and scam the companies. It just sucks.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 6:59am
c3 and I will most likely still be friends, I like the capita boards.  I will probably not be getting any more Unions though, but that is just preference.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 7:06am
So that's teh story...that crack is so weird...it doesn't make sense that the crack went all the way up the board through each of the binding holes...gah, but yea i'd email them a couple more times just to prove your point of what you think...if they still won't budge on warrantying it then at least you made a valiant effort.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 7:15am
so all in all did we decided if your binding was loose when you made the landing?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 9:09am
the binding was secure.  I only had the problem with securing the Union Contacts on the binding.  I was riding with my Datas, which I have never had trouble attaching (only trouble with the straps).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 9:16am
so i feel your pain but are you totally supirsed?  the Horrorscope was one of the softest board out there, and your doing huge jumps on it.. the board wasnt made to do that kind of riding.  and with bindings like Datas on it.. sounds like a recipe for disaster.  but really that sucks. get in touch with your local capita rep and see if he can hook it up with a pro form or a sample for cheap.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 9:23am
actually I told my local shop i would break it before the season.  it's the location of the break that surprised me.  as for the datas...I am sure the lack of flex in the baseplate contributed.
 
I will get a broform out of it though.  All is not lost.  But for a park/jib board, it will be hard to replace.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 9:46am
that sucks but at least you sound like a reasonable guy.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 10:20am
That is a strange place for a board to break
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 10:37am
Originally posted by spenser

you landed bad and it cracked... it happens.  its like snapping a skateboard.... you cant warranty a board when it happens like that.  it sucks, and we all totally understand (as do the companies), but its simply not covered by warranty.. its not a manufacturing defect.


If they say that the board cracked due to insert can i help you fix this thread? pm meure, that sounds like a manufacture warranty.  Also since Union is C3, you would think that the screws being too short or too long would be something they would take care of.

A snowboard cracking is not like a skateboard cracking. you cannot prevent good skateboarders from breaking skateboards due to wear and tear.  You can prevent snowboards from breaking under normal wear and tear.  I know that snapita's break a lot, and I can understand that they don't warranty most of them because they would loose money.  But most of snowboard companies will warranty a board no matter how the board can i help you fix this thread? pm mes, as long as it is strapped to your feet at the time.  Capita use to warranty any break within the first year for any reason.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 10:43am
that sucks joel.  hope your ankle is healing up. 

with all these problems with c3, i wonder how the union bandwagoners are thinking now. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 10:52am
thats rough.......but I'd still like a sierrascope :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 10:56am
don't let the fact that I broke mine deter you from getting one.  I would still recommend this board, in fact I will probably look at get another capita next year.  I got my money's worth.  the board was fun.  guth is quite correct in stating that I rode the board in conditions it was necessarily intended for...
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 11:00am
Originally posted by HuKiT

Originally posted by spenser

you landed bad and it cracked... it happens.  its like snapping a skateboard.... you cant warranty a board when it happens like that.  it sucks, and we all totally understand (as do the companies), but its simply not covered by warranty.. its not a manufacturing defect.


If they say that the board cracked due to insert can i help you fix this thread? pm meure, that sounds like a manufacture warranty.  Also since Union is C3, you would think that the screws being too short or too long would be something they would take care of.

A snowboard cracking is not like a skateboard cracking. you cannot prevent good skateboarders from breaking skateboards due to wear and tear.  You can prevent snowboards from breaking under normal wear and tear.  I know that snapita's break a lot, and I can understand that they don't warranty most of them because they would loose money.  But most of snowboard companies will warranty a board no matter how the board can i help you fix this thread? pm mes, as long as it is strapped to your feet at the time.  Capita use to warranty any break within the first year for any reason.

who says capitas break a lot?  a lot of snowboards break.  and its hard to say, anyway.  i mean, youll probably see more capitas breaking compared to neversummer, just for the fact alone that TONS more people who are jibbing and doing things that could snap a board are riding capitas, compared to neversummer.  its a brand thing, and a board thing (cheap jib board to thrash, like the stairmaster).  there are way too many factors to really quantify what those statistics mean or why they are the way they are.

landing heavy on the tail is somewhat common, and sometimes it snaps.  thats just how it is.  it seems like the bolt thing would likely have something to do with it, but how can you prove it?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 11:16am
Originally posted by spenser

cheap jib board to thrash


I've worked in board shops for 5 years, and I've been ridding for 12 years.  I've personally broken more capitas then anything else.  And of the capitas I've sold I've seen a higher percentage come back broken.  Your right that a lot of it has to do with the fact that they are a cheap jib board.  But they are designed that way, to be a more or less disposable board.  I personally love them for the way they ride.  But I know that when I buy a capita it's going to be a ton of fun, and probably break within 30 days of ridding, and when I buy a libtech I'm going to fork out quit a bit more, it's not going to be super light, but it's going to be a freaking tank.  I'm not hatting on capita, those are just the facts according to my personal experience.
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Stass View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 11:50am
Joel that sucks!
Go buy another one next season and add to your growing collection of boards Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 12:11pm
damn Joel, that blows.
bummed to hear they wouldnt warranty it, but we are in a recession and like you said its a smaller company - maybe theyre being tight on their warranties?

still its a weird break...

Originally posted by STAFF GUTH

so i feel your pain but are you totally suprised?  the Horrorscope was one of the softest board out there, and your doing huge jumps on it.. the board wasnt made to do that kind of riding.  and with bindings like Datas on it.. sounds like a recipe for disaster.  but really that sucks. get in touch with your local capita rep and see if he can hook it up with a pro form or a sample for cheap.  
My thought exactly Levi hah... The Horrorscope is super soft so hitting a big jump is almost asking to break it... just suprised about where it actaully broke... prettttty weird.

Good thing you have like 5 other boards! hah
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 3:49pm
Sorry to hear that they won't warranty it, Joel. I'm sure if you tried hard enough, they would end up replacing the board, but I understand where you are coming from. Plus, it isn't like you don't have 4 or 5 other boards Wink
 
I did think it was rather funny that you and my husband were both tearing up the park that day at Keystone with your cracked boards though, lol.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 4:03pm
I would just be interested to see where the vertical laminate is in the core in relation to the binding inserts. I mean, one bad fall i could understand some minor cracking between the binding inserts, and if you kept riding on it and took more bad falls I could see it opening up even more - but a crack like that from one bad fall is just Confused
I'm here for the gangbang....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 4:20pm
well your horrorscope would be great as wall art. drill through the base and mount it above your bed haha
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/13/2009 at 5:53pm
sinix I rode the board for 3 days after the crack initiated.  It started under my binding so I couldn't see it until it progressed.



it will make good wall art!

Thanks Jenn, come out again soon and your husband and I can break a couple more boards.
x_X
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