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Topic ClosedLuger Dies at Olympic Training

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rook View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Luger Dies at Olympic Training
    Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 11:16am
http://www.ctvolympics.ca/skeleton/news/newsid=39315.html?cid=rsstsn


Wow shitty start for the Games.   There is a video link on the site too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 11:22am
I saw that video. I was shocked they didnt have those polls covered in padding. Not sure it would have helped much since he was going so fast but its better than slamming into steel. Poor kid was only 21 too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 11:34am
Ya,  it kind of sucks to because the FiBT (luge/skeleton/bobsled association) approved the track design over saw the construction and approved the safety, and now are throwing the builders (the Vancouver Olympic committee) under the bus saying the track is too fast, and too dangerous.  

So sad, but I am not sure padding would have helped he was going over 140Km/H (87mph), but they need to do something (netting, padding, make the whole thing a circle so you can fly out, I'm not sure what)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 11:35am
Yeah, this sounds like it has great potential to get really messy.  People pointing fingers and athletes voicing concerns even before his death is not a good start.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 11:40am
wow the video is so scary... it happened so fast...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 11:42am
Ya it will get messy, right now everyone is pointing fingers at everyone.

When I was there for the World Cup last year the athletes had dubbed the last S-turn before the bottom (2 corners before where this happened) 50/50 because you had a 50/50 chance of making it with out falling.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 11:51am
more fuel to the Fire, released before this incident:

Why this track means fear

The Globe and Mail
By Jeff Blair, The Globe and Mail
Comment.viewTotComments(39462)

What we have here is a veritable Citius Altius Fortius checkmate.

Canada will make its stand against the German medal machine in bobsleigh, luge and skeleton on a track that's hit the outer limits of sliding sports.

Early in the planning for the 2014 Sochi Games, the Russian hosts were told flatly by the sport's governing bodies: those speeds at the Whistler Sliding Centre? Don't even dream of trying to match them.

Think about that: how many sports have essentially stood up and said: Enough!

The sport has screamed Uncle, Onkel and Dyadya.

"In 30 years, who knows?" said Canadian luger Jeff Christie, a Vancouver native who represents the athletes. "But I know that the FIL [the governing body] has told tracks that in the future, 135ish [kilometres an hour] is about it."

But that won't be 'it' in Whistler.

The two fastest speeds in World Cup luge and bobsleigh history were recorded here last season. German luger Felix Loch hit 153.937 km/h. Janis Minins of Latvia became the first four-man bobsleigh driver to reach 153 km/h - more than five km/h better than the fastest time posted on the World Cup this year, on the natural ice surface at St. Moritz, a track with fewer perils than Whistler's.

Whistler's reputation was established in November, 2008 when Loch damaged shoulder tendons in a crash and was one of three lugers hospitalized, and Canadian bob driver Pierre Lueders crashed in Corner 7, which was instantly named Lueders' Loop.

Holcomb has since claimed that the course was designed backward, with tighter turns near the bottom where sleds max-out the speed. And American luger Tony Benshoof told NBC: "When I first got on this track, I thought that somebody was going to kill themselves."

Turn 13 banks sharply to the left and sends the sleds into a horseshoe-shaped curve that slings them to the finish line. Two-time overall World Cup bobsleigh champion Steve Holcomb nicknamed it "50/50" after half the sleds crashed during the World Cup training run. Some track modifications since then will give the drivers a little more leeway going into it during the Olympics.

"There is a human limit," says Canadian luge coach and former German doubles medalist Wolfgang Staudinger. "I hope we don't increase the speed of our tracks. Whistler is on the limit."

"You never say never," says Terry Gudzowsky, the former Canadian bobsledder who heads the FIBT's track commission and who consulted on Whistler and Sochi track designs. "Speed isn't the issue. At St. Moritz ... there's not a lot of G-forces there."

The Whistler Sliding Centre is designed to a maximum G-force of 5.02, and sleds will typically pull 2.5 or 3.0 Gs. By comparison, a Formula 1 car might hit three to four Gs when braking, and a top fuel dragster going from 0 to 160 km/h in 0.8 seconds creates a G-force of 5.0.

"The difference in Whistler is you're going 150 through [turns] 12, 13, 14," said Gudzowsky, who is an on-track official. "There's a chicane with a lot of pressure and in 15 ... that's where speed becomes an issue. In future the intent will be to stay away from combining high speed and high G-forces. Sochi will be like Whistler in that both are relatively narrow and steep but ... there will be three uphill sections to control the speed. It will be quick. It will be technical. But we will be doing 150 here. We'll be in the 130s in Sochi."

Robert Storey, the Ottawa-based president of the FIBT, was part of a 1966 crash in Lake Placid where teammate Sergio Zardini died.

"All new tracks are set out as huge bogeymen and, generally, there's a reaction to new tracks from the most reactionary of people - usually coaches," Storey said. "A track changes over time ...everybody adapts."

Christie noticed a difference in the track in December. World Cup overall skeleton champion Mellisa Hollingsworth of Eckville, Alta., freely admits the track unnerves her, saying it "seems to change every time we come to train. There's a fine line to make it slideable for all three sports."

"Ice-wise, it's the best it's been," said Christie, who was arrived in Whistler on Thursday. "It's important that people remember that a track is a living, breathing thing. What I've learned about this track is you need to back off on the driving a bit. You need to react to what's happening instead of what you think will happen." 


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 1:32pm
had the video of crash up but not good, sorry guys

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 1:34pm
[
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 1:37pm
he was going 90 mph before it flipped. Cry
In my heart, he's the fastest.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 1:38pm
should probably remove that video, my prayers go out to his family and friends.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 1:40pm
I'm surprised that they actually released the video to be honest.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by little ole me

I'm surprised that they actually released the video to be honest.  

Yeah, It looks like its a on a dvr or something but I didn't know that the warm ups stuff was even broadcasted.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 1:42pm
There was a video on that website that Rook linked to as well, which is an official Olympic site, so it's not even others releasing it originally. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 2:40pm
They just got done showing the video on NBC. Very sad what happened. After watching the video I don't think it would have helped much, but how can you have beams like that just exposed and not padded.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by NickinChicago

They just got done showing the video on NBC. Very sad what happened. After watching the video I don't think it would have helped much, but how can you have beams like that just exposed and not padded.


It looked like the track parallel to those beams was flat. So I can understand why they wouldnt put padding, but the turn right before should of had taller wals in my opinion.
I don't know though, never followed the sport.
RIP nodar kumaritashvili
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 3:26pm
I don't really understand why all those poles are there, and also why the curve turns into a straightaway so fast, because to me it looks like he came off the corner and slammed into the wall which is why he flipped.

Beside that though, RIP
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 3:30pm
Just think. A plexi glass wall along the edge of the shoot would have totally avoided this tragedy.

RIP man. Prayers to his family.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by Moto

Just think. A plexi glass wall along the edge of the shoot would have totally avoided this tragedy.

RIP man. Prayers to his family.



Exactly.

I was amazed/appalled that they showed the video.  For some reason I thought TV stations couldn't show the "hit" that killed someone?

Anyways RIP.

I wouldn't go down that damn thing until something is put up there.  If I were those riders.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 4:05pm
plexiglass is a great idea
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 4:06pm
Wow, that is absolutely terrible. I couldn't see that video, so idk what it showed, but I found it on youtube and they even showed them giving him CPR. I do not think they should have released that video at all.
I killed Pat... again!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 4:06pm
I thought I'll be late to view the vid, but I guess they are not trying to hide it. 

Think the plexi glass will cost more money for them, or/and it block some of the good views that they can charge attendees grips of money. So, I'm guessing they're trying to safe and profit more money by doing something like that. What a shame.

RIP. Best wishes to the Fam. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 4:10pm
^jen

wow, I didn't see that vid, but why did they gave him cpr. I ain't no doc. but a person was slammed to a unmovable solid blunt object at that speed shouldn't even be touched till a stretch comes. cpr in this situation will cause more internal bleeding or internal damage, right? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 4:15pm
not really cpr was a good choice, i dont think it would have helped him that much but it didnt hurt to at least try
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 4:29pm
If he's not breathing you do mouth to mouth.  If his heart is stopped and he's not breathing, you do CPR.  The brain starts to die within 5 minutes of a lack of bloodflow.  CPR keeps oxygenated blood to the brain until you can then address the other injuries.  Unlike the movies, well over 90% of the time, if the person is getting CPR, it's over.  CPR too would rarely revive a person on their own.  Pretty much all successful revivals will be the result of a defibulator.
always wear a helmet
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 4:59pm
Man, I think he would have died on impact that was pretty fast.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 6:26pm
By the speed of the impact it looked like de died instantly
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 6:42pm
That was tough to watch. We never understand why these things happen to people so young, but there are reasons for everything. His family could use the prayers of the world tonight.
Bring it hard or don't bring it at all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 7:19pm
From what I have heard, the CPR was just a formality until a doctor was able to pronounce him deceased.

The video should have never been published. What a horrible thing for his family back home to go through.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 7:43pm
man that video is sickening to watch.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 9:16pm
Ok, some more updates from here.  Some of the other lugers have come out anonymously and said that he should not have been racing anyway, he has never raced above Triple A (max speed 110 kmh) on a shortened track.  Also one of the officials has been involved in lugeing for 25+ years said he has never seen a driver come out of the track before, sleds a few times but never drivers.  There are also some people saying that he may have been unconscious before he exited that turn,  apparently the sliders are pulling 5 G's coming around that corner and it can easily knock you out if you are not ready or trained for those type of g forces.  Anyway it still sucks...... he was way to young.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 10:02pm
Not to sound like a cockwank, but if the above statements are true, he really has himself to blame. It doesn't look like a safe sport. And at the end of the day maybe Georgia is to blame, because they might have rushed him into the Olympic team, with out considering the above facts.

Still, condolences out to his family.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/12/2010 at 11:01pm
If that's the case then maybe the Olympic Committee should actually have standards for who can get onto a track that even the top athletes in the sport are saying they're 'unnerved' to run...... just a thought.

I think it's BS that this tends to happen quite often though.  The dead dude gets thrown under the bus at least once shortly after the story breaks to try to take a bit of heat off of the true responsible party.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/13/2010 at 3:11am
yeah. The dead get forgotten very quickly but the way they died doesn't. As you said there should be standards. Everything has standards, from Snowboard Manufacturing to Software development, I don't see why some sports don't.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/13/2010 at 7:10am
Looks like the all the men in Luge and Skeleton will be starting at the Womens start line (2 corners lowers should lower the speed by 15-20 Km/h) and they are building a new Womens start farther down the track.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/13/2010 at 11:43am
Yea its def hard to watch.  It sucks for that to happen to someone during what should have been a very good time of his life(making it to the olympics); especially because he was so young.
 
[QUOTE:I was amazed/appalled that they showed the video.  For some reason I thought TV stations couldn't show the "hit" that killed someone?:QUOTE]
 
Yea, so was I.  Not only are there videos that show the hit that killed him, there are videos that show his face and everything after the crash on Break.com. Its pretty gruesome and messed up to show that. 
 
Anyways, RIP and condolences to the family

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2010 at 7:36am

Originally posted by rook

Ok, some more updates from here.  Some of the other lugers have come out anonymously and said that he should not have been racing anyway, he has never raced above Triple A (max speed 110 kmh) on a shortened track.  Also one of the officials has been involved in lugeing for 25+ years said he has never seen a driver come out of the track before, sleds a few times but never drivers.  There are also some people saying that he may have been unconscious before he exited that turn,  apparently the sliders are pulling 5 G's coming around that corner and it can easily knock you out if you are not ready or trained for those type of g forces.  Anyway it still sucks...... he was way to young.

They said last night on NBC that he had done twenty six previous practice runs on the track.

I'm a dance floor tiger lady bumping everything she has, touching every single lad, rubbing every lady bad.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2010 at 7:41am
Originally posted by GeckosGoMoo

Originally posted by rook

Ok, some more updates from here.  Some of the other lugers have come out anonymously and said that he should not have been racing anyway, he has never raced above Triple A (max speed 110 kmh) on a shortened track.  Also one of the officials has been involved in lugeing for 25+ years said he has never seen a driver come out of the track before, sleds a few times but never drivers.  There are also some people saying that he may have been unconscious before he exited that turn,  apparently the sliders are pulling 5 G's coming around that corner and it can easily knock you out if you are not ready or trained for those type of g forces.  Anyway it still sucks...... he was way to young.

They said last night on NBC that he had done twenty six previous practice runs on the track.


Not true..... this was his first time at the track,  he had 3 training runs before his last.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2010 at 7:45am
Wait sorry just looked into it, and he was here for training in December where they all did 12 Runs,  so 12 + 3 = 15 runs.  But he has never competed above AAA.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2010 at 7:59am
  Well, how many levels above AAA is the Luger Track at Vancouver? I'm just curious really. I don't know much about Luger.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2010 at 8:09am
AAA is the level right below the Vancouver track but it is like 20+mph faster, which is quite a bit. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2010 at 5:42pm
Sad & awful news.
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