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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Oh Snap!
    Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 9:12am
i just read the whole thread and it seems like no one has any precise clear facts at the moment?
well all i know is that to me, snowboarding is a pretty elitist sport, meaning its for the better off people. (500 dollar boards , 150 dollar bindings, 150 boots ish, 300 dollar season passes or 50 dollar lift tickets and stuff)
sierra probably saved me enough for a free season pass compared to buying @ retail price. so saving this much money is the only possible way for me to go snowboarding, as i have no real income and i have to buy al my gear and passes myself, and im only 16 so thats really hard to do.
well, my point being that sierra's prices = me being able to snowboard
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 9:12am
Originally posted by bugsbunnymydad

Like others have said, chapter 11 doesnt usually end in a company disappearing. I think when people hear BANKRUPT, they have that image in their head with the little store all empty with the big out of business sign in the window. Obviously that's not what happens with many bigger companies and corporations. Obviously, it does happen though. But meh, I'm Canadian and I only studied a bit of american business law in our comparative class.

IF sierra does say byebye, it's going to suck for me and all the other international buyers the most. You guys stateside can still buy stuff for a little more but international buyers are potentially paying 50 - 100% the Sierra price.
 
True, like I've stated before, there's a good chance they'll come out of this still alive, but it's going to be a very different SS. No more huge price cuts, no more huge inventories, etc etc.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 9:14am
Originally posted by dvdngu

i just read the whole thread and it seems like no one has any precise clear facts at the moment?
well all i know is that to me, snowboarding is a pretty elitist sport, meaning its for the better off people. (500 dollar boards , 150 dollar bindings, 150 boots ish, 300 dollar season passes or 50 dollar lift tickets and stuff)
sierra probably saved me enough for a free season pass compared to buying @ retail price. so saving this much money is the only possible way for me to go snowboarding, as i have no real income and i have to buy al my gear and passes myself, and im only 16 so thats really hard to do.
well, my point being that sierra's prices = me being able to snowboard
 
get a job or buy used. simple as that.
 
i'm sure SS wasn't the end all, be all of your snowboarding career. I bet if you truly wanted to buy your own crap you would've made it work if SS wasn't here.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 9:24am
actually i hadn't known that k2 pulled out...
it wasn't my intention to say that flow was a major brand... just that it was one of the creditors listed on the bankruptcy filing... that's my mistake... i should have been more clear on that...

you're right.. no one company could fill burton's absence... burton is the largest snowboarding company there is and in all likelihood have a dominant market share.... that is a legit question and i don't have an answer for you... it'll probably take 2 or 3 smaller companies, like Ride or Salomon (are they under K2?)... whatever... but like i said... it's wishful thinking on my part... more like fantasy it seems

please stop poking holes in my argument/dreams...
"Did you know that policemen are called cops because their badges used to made of copper?"
"That's cool... then why are they called pigs?"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:06am
im sure i couldve, but ss is the best choice. quality gear for an affordable price. and i cant get a job cause i dont have a permit
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:09am
Originally posted by dvdngu

im sure i couldve, but ss is the best choice. quality gear for an affordable price. and i cant get a job cause i dont have a permit
 
totally understandable, just saying that your argument that SS was THE deciding factor of you being able to go snowboarding is wrong.
and once again, the affordable prices are because they were breaking vendor agreements.
 
why can't you get a permit? go to your counseler and get one?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Alkasquawlik

Originally posted by dvdngu

im sure i couldve, but ss is the best choice. quality gear for an affordable price. and i cant get a job cause i dont have a permit
 
totally understandable, just saying that your argument that SS was THE deciding factor of you being able to go snowboarding is wrong.
and once again, the affordable prices are because they were breaking vendor agreements.
 
why can't you get a permit? go to your counseler and get one?
 
From what I've seen and heard SS never agreed to the tenants they broke, and were quite up front about it, so is that really breaking them?
 
Also, if you really want to get down to it, the affordable prices were because Burton was over-producing and having to sell off large quantities of stock at hugely discounted wholesale rates to places like SS. Burton very easily could've stopped SS from selling their stuff at that price anytime they wanted, but that would've meant they would've had to reclaim their stock and put it back in their warehouse. Notice they didn't dump SS until they had a lapdog(the House) that would buy all their closeout stock and promise to play by their rules, hmmmmmm, protecting all the mom and pop B&Ms, uh yeah sure.......you wanna buy a bridge in NYC? I'll sell it to you cheap.
 
A thermos keeps hot stuff hot, and cold stuff cold.....BUT HOW DOES IT KNOW???
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:36am
This entire thread is like an episode of The View.

Just a bunch of catty hens clucking about stuff you have no idea about.  Get lives, people.  It's just a snowboard shop.

I'm just here for the titties
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:36am
If this was my site scorer would have been banned long ago.  His homophobic and hateful comments were never ending.  He defended them by saying he wasn't serious with his posts, but at some point you have to take responsibility for your actions.  Some of  you may know him in real life and maybe he isn't a complete tool there but if you just read his posts he needs a lesson in maturity.

Anyway I think the lesson from all this is that we all should have bought a lot more crap when everything was 60-70% off. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:37am
Originally posted by BudAshes

If this was my site scorer would have been banned long ago.  His homophobic and hateful comments were never ending.  He defended them by saying he wasn't serious with his posts, but at some point you have to take responsibility for your actions.  Some of  you may know him in real life and maybe he isn't a complete tool there but if you just read his posts he needs a lesson in maturity.

Anyway I think the lesson from all this is that we all should have bought a lot more crap when everything was 60-70% off. 
Calm down sir, itz just the intrawebz
A thermos keeps hot stuff hot, and cold stuff cold.....BUT HOW DOES IT KNOW???
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:39am
Originally posted by BudAshes

If this was my site scorer would have been banned long ago.  His homophobic and hateful comments were never ending.  He defended them by saying he wasn't serious with his posts, but at some point you have to take responsibility for your actions.  Some of  you may know him in real life and maybe he isn't a complete tool there but if you just read his posts he needs a lesson in maturity.

Anyway I think the lesson from all this is that we all should have bought a lot more crap when everything was 60-70% off. 

Wow.  Worthless.
I'm just here for the titties
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:40am
Hi Matt, hows Philly?
A thermos keeps hot stuff hot, and cold stuff cold.....BUT HOW DOES IT KNOW???
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:41am
Originally posted by Phatman

Hi Matt, hows Philly?

Effing HOT.  I definitely don't miss east coast weather.

The drinking binges have been good to me though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:44am
I think my boy's were there lastnight, you shoulda gone
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:48am
Originally posted by Phatman

I think my boy's were there lastnight, you shoulda gone

I was in the city, but had tickets to see patrice.  Jodi still holdng out on the kid? She's a baby hog.

I really hope i can jack this thread, for the record.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Alkasquawlik

Originally posted by dvdngu

i just read the whole thread and it seems like no one has any precise clear facts at the moment?
well all i know is that to me, snowboarding is a pretty elitist sport, meaning its for the better off people. (500 dollar boards , 150 dollar bindings, 150 boots ish, 300 dollar season passes or 50 dollar lift tickets and stuff)
sierra probably saved me enough for a free season pass compared to buying @ retail price. so saving this much money is the only possible way for me to go snowboarding, as i have no real income and i have to buy al my gear and passes myself, and im only 16 so thats really hard to do.
well, my point being that sierra's prices = me being able to snowboard
 
get a job or buy used. simple as that.
 
i'm sure SS wasn't the end all, be all of your snowboarding career. I bet if you truly wanted to buy your own crap you would've made it work if SS wasn't here.


I agree.  I don't think snowboarding is an elitist sport at all.  Sure it cost more than playing basketball and whatnot.  But you can easily go to your local Wal-Mart and get some snowboard equipment.  It won't be Burton or K2, but you'd be able to "afford" it.  And if you bought a season pass, why are you paying an additional 50 for a lift ticket?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:52am
Originally posted by mattaleao

Originally posted by Phatman

I think my boy's were there lastnight, you shoulda gone

I was in the city, but had tickets to see patrice.  Jodi still holdng out on the kid? She's a baby hog.

I really hope i can jack this thread, for the record.
Yeah she's still babyhogging, which means I might not be able to see them. i need her to have the kid tonight so she can be home from the hospital Sunday and I can get them situated at the house and leave for a few hours Monday night.
 
 
For the record I'm trying to do my part.
A thermos keeps hot stuff hot, and cold stuff cold.....BUT HOW DOES IT KNOW???
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:53am
Originally posted by mattaleao

Originally posted by BudAshes

If this was my site scorer would have been banned long ago.  His homophobic and hateful comments were never ending.  He defended them by saying he wasn't serious with his posts, but at some point you have to take responsibility for your actions.  Some of  you may know him in real life and maybe he isn't a complete tool there but if you just read his posts he needs a lesson in maturity.

Anyway I think the lesson from all this is that we all should have bought a lot more crap when everything was 60-70% off. 

Wow.  Worthless.


lol, i was just kidding about that last part.  Trying to lighten the mood of my post.  Obviously the 70% off was just part of this shitstorm that is going to take years to blow over. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:53am
Originally posted by Phatman

 
For the record I'm trying to do my part.

You're pushing on her back? LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:54am
Originally posted by itr43


I agree.  I don't think snowboarding is an elitist sport at all.  Sure it cost more than playing basketball and whatnot.  But you can easily go to your local Wal-Mart and get some snowboard equipment.  It won't be Burton or K2, but you'd be able to "afford" it.  And if you bought a season pass, why are you paying an additional 50 for a lift ticket?

Your kidding rightShocked

90$ for a lift ticket.  500$ boards.  Deer Valley, Park City, Aspen, and Alta.  This sport practically prides it's self on it's elitism.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:55am
Originally posted by BudAshes

If this was my site scorer would have been banned long ago. 
well I am glad it's not your site.  it would be quite boring. 
 
for an over used "words of wisdom" - don't take life to seriously, you won't get out alive.
 
eff, I should take my own advice.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:57am
Originally posted by mattaleao

Originally posted by Phatman

 
For the record I'm trying to do my part.

You're pushing on her back? LOL
I was pushing on the top of her belly and shaking her belly trying to get him out last night, she yelled at meLOL
A thermos keeps hot stuff hot, and cold stuff cold.....BUT HOW DOES IT KNOW???
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 10:58am
Originally posted by Phatman

 
From what I've seen and heard SS never agreed to the tenants they broke, and were quite up front about it, so is that really breaking them?
 
Also, if you really want to get down to it, the affordable prices were because Burton was over-producing and having to sell off large quantities of stock at hugely discounted wholesale rates to places like SS. Burton very easily could've stopped SS from selling their stuff at that price anytime they wanted, but that would've meant they would've had to reclaim their stock and put it back in their warehouse. Notice they didn't dump SS until they had a lapdog(the House) that would buy all their closeout stock and promise to play by their rules, hmmmmmm, protecting all the mom and pop B&Ms, uh yeah sure.......you wanna buy a bridge in NYC? I'll sell it to you cheap.
 
 
They've been breaking the vendor agreements for years now, so just because SS blacked it out with a Sharpie for this year doesn't really put them in the clear.
Not saying Burton is all innocent in this matter either, but SS had specific agreements it signed and broke them and now they're suffering the consequences. Plain and simple. And it wasn't just Burton's agreements they were breaking too, as evidenced by other companies pulling out and whatnot. Why should every other store have to abide by the rules, when SS doesn't?
 
As for their online store, whatever Burton decides to do, Burton decides to do. If you don't like it, don't support them. Buy other companies products as there are a shitload of them that provide good, or just as good products as Burton.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 11:00am
Originally posted by not-ewrx


Your kidding rightShocked

90$ for a lift ticket.  500$ boards.  Deer Valley, Park City, Aspen, and Alta.  This sport practically prides it's self on it's elitism.


 
No one is forcing you to go ride those places or buy that $500 board. You could easily make do with much cheaper alternatives if you were forced to.
 
Granted it is expensive to get into, any way you look into it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 11:01am
if you want to snowboard you can make it happen.  it's not elitest.  It may be expensive to go resort riding, but what's stopping you from finding an old board at a yard sale, a hand me down, something you made, a modified sled, etc and hiking hills with snow?
 
what makes it elitist is people who won't ride unless they have the best gear...why?  because they are just here to look cool.  some of the poorest people I know...snowboard. 
 
with that said, one of my good friends did call me an elitist fxck not too long ago =)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 11:08am
man i am so glad i bought the Last Custom X on this site :) :)... i wonder what will happen though...  interesting very interesting.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 11:12am
Haha, basketball is probably a bad comparison. Moneywise, I would say surfing or cycling is more comparable. Actually cycling may be a bad comparison. With the money my friend spent on his racing bike, I could've easily bought 5 years worth of snowboarding gear. Seriously, some of the hardcore dudes spend over 20k on their bikes...insane.

Snowboarding isn't really a rich man's sport. Seriously, just buy stuff wisely. Do you REALLY need a new board/bindings/boots every year? I use my stuff for 2 years. And I'm sure lotsa people use their setup for more than that.

And don't get me started on outerwear. I bought new stuff from sierra this year but my 4 year old jacket and pants were still working just fine before that. Yea some holes and tears but they kept me warm and dry.

It sucks but Sierra disappearing ain't gonna end noone's snowboarding. Not anyone that actually likes snowboarding anyway.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 11:13am
IMHO, it pretty much amounts to price fixing, which I'm whole-heartedly against, and I don't think any stores should be held to the pricing portions of those agreements, but thats neither here nor there.
 
Burton can by all means do whatever it wants, I'm not at all questioning their authority in the matter, and other than my usual "Burton makes products from puppy dog tales and kitten whiskers,"  comments I really don't hate on them that much anymore, I just don't buy their stuff and haven't for a good few years now. I am merely pointing out that broken vendor agreements are not the whole cause for the discounts Sierra was/is able to provide, and the root cause lies with the very manufacturers that want to call foul now while trying to preach this altruistic, "We think good helpful local shops should drive snowboarding." 
 
 
A thermos keeps hot stuff hot, and cold stuff cold.....BUT HOW DOES IT KNOW???
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 11:15am
Originally posted by Alkasquawlik

Originally posted by Phatman

 
From what I've seen and heard SS never agreed to the tenants they broke, and were quite up front about it, so is that really breaking them?
 
Also, if you really want to get down to it, the affordable prices were because Burton was over-producing and having to sell off large quantities of stock at hugely discounted wholesale rates to places like SS. Burton very easily could've stopped SS from selling their stuff at that price anytime they wanted, but that would've meant they would've had to reclaim their stock and put it back in their warehouse. Notice they didn't dump SS until they had a lapdog(the House) that would buy all their closeout stock and promise to play by their rules, hmmmmmm, protecting all the mom and pop B&Ms, uh yeah sure.......you wanna buy a bridge in NYC? I'll sell it to you cheap.
 
 
They've been breaking the vendor agreements for years now, so just because SS blacked it out with a Sharpie for this year doesn't really put them in the clear.
Not saying Burton is all innocent in this matter either, but SS had specific agreements it signed and broke them and now they're suffering the consequences. Plain and simple. And it wasn't just Burton's agreements they were breaking too, as evidenced by other companies pulling out and whatnot. Why should every other store have to abide by the rules, when SS doesn't?
 
As for their online store, whatever Burton decides to do, Burton decides to do. If you don't like it, don't support them. Buy other companies products as there are a shitload of them that provide good, or just as good products as Burton.

This back and forth is exactly what's going to be settled in court.


For the record - this sort of scratches the surface of the part of this dispute that does actually matter. There's things going on that are irrelevant - and things that everybody should be paying attention to.

The question about vendor agreements, whether burton has the right/power to enforce aspects of the agreement, unilaterally change the agreement, etc is an issue that reaches far beyond snowboarding. 
As I've said in the past, disputes like this and the arguments companies like Burton are making - are nothing new in the rest of the retail world. This is a question that's been coming to a head throughout the retail industry, even spawning potential legislation as a result. 
If you really think this is all about 'protecting mom and pop shops' you're out of your mind. There's so much more at play here then that, and the consequences could reach far beyond anything anyone is talking about now.

That's part of the bigger picture a lot of you "it's just snowboarding, get over it" types don't quite seem to understand. Cases like this lay the groundwork for how future disputes play out, and sets the stage for deciding where a manufacturer's rights end, and a retailer's rights begin (that's kind of the core of the argument). 
If a manufacturer like Burton has rights that extent to telling a retailer how and when they can sell product, how it's marketed - where does it end? Could that same manufacturer tell a retailer what OTHER product they can have on the floor? What if a company like burton decides that part of the retail agreement says "you can't sell Mervin boards if you sell burton boards" or "you can't sell Rome bindings if you also sell Burton bindings" - is that Kosher? Afterall - if it's the retail agreement...





I'm here for the gangbang....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 11:17am
Originally posted by itr43

I agree.  I don't think snowboarding is an elitist sport at all.  Sure it cost more than playing basketball and whatnot.  But you can easily go to your local Wal-Mart and get some snowboard equipment.  It won't be Burton or K2, but you'd be able to "afford" it.  And if you bought a season pass, why are you paying an additional 50 for a lift ticket?


Just googled it. damn apparently you can. Didn't know walmart sold snowboarding gear.

Not too bad  $175-185 for a youth board and bindings.You could have bought a adult board with bindings for that much tiny bit more only on SS though also for the same price you can get better gear for youth for same price.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 11:21am
Originally posted by bugsbunnymydad

Haha, basketball is probably a bad comparison. Moneywise, I would say surfing or cycling is more comparable. Actually cycling may be a bad comparison. With the money my friend spent on his racing bike, I could've easily bought 5 years worth of snowboarding gear. Seriously, some of the hardcore dudes spend over 20k on their bikes...insane.

Snowboarding isn't really a rich man's sport. Seriously, just buy stuff wisely. Do you REALLY need a new board/bindings/boots every year? I use my stuff for 2 years. And I'm sure lotsa people use their setup for more than that.

And don't get me started on outerwear. I bought new stuff from sierra this year but my 4 year old jacket and pants were still working just fine before that. Yea some holes and tears but they kept me warm and dry.

It sucks but Sierra disappearing ain't gonna end noone's snowboarding. Not anyone that actually likes snowboarding anyway.


Yeah, I know basketball was on the other side of the cost spectrum.  But I just wanted to make a point.  There are alternatives.  Every sport can get expensive.  Golf..$1000 clubs, $150 shoes, $250 course fees. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 11:34am
wow golf is not that expensive. If your getting 150 dollar shoes then your just not a good shopper, and 250 green fees? where do you play? pebble beach?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 11:38am
Originally posted by goldhemp

wow golf is not that expensive. If your getting 150 dollar shoes then your just not a good shopper, and 250 green fees? where do you play? pebble beach?
 
It's just the extreme.
Obviously there are $150 shoes, doesn't matter if you can shop around or not, they're out there.
Same goes for snowboarding, people can say ZOMG there's a "$1500 snowboard!?!11! So elitist!!!!" when in reality you don't need that to actually snowboard. Go buy a used setup and have fun, same goes for golf. stop being a tard.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 11:52am
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by )(nfinit)(

Originally posted by BudAshes

If this was my site scorer would have been banned long ago. 
well I am glad it's not your site.  it would be quite boring. 
 
for an over used "words of wisdom" - don't take life to seriously, you won't get out alive.
 
eff, I should take my own advice.


I got no problem with trouble makers.  I've been banned from a few forums myself.  It's stuff like homosexual bashing and telling people they need to die that I have a problem with.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 1:27pm
what were you banned from and why??

I wanna see how high you are up on the bad-ass scale Big smile

- Whenever I go to shave, I assume there's someone else on the planet shaving, so I say, "I'm gonna go shave, too." -
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 1:35pm
scorer got banned from here for suggesting, jus suggesting mind you, that someone go drink bleach.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 1:41pm
i find this whole thread interesting, particularly because of the lack of comment from anyone in a position of authority at sierra. until there is an official post on this (or the website closes), i am just going to assume that sierra has moved to a huge warehouse filled with rainbows and unicorns and free snowboards for all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 1:41pm
can't we all just get along?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 2:08pm
Very good point Myke.  Where does the manufacture's rights end and the retailers rights begin.  This is obviously way over my head and I can only speculate what is going to happen.  The good news for now is, Sierra is conducting business as normal.  If anyone, (like myself) is worried about them going under or not being able to give the huge discounts they've always given to all of us, spend a little money now while you still can and get some great prodicts for some really low prices.  Whatever happens, lets just hope that Sierra Snowboard will always be around.  If not, I hope all of the employees will be able to find jobs elsewhere and not fall victim to a pissing match that they had no control over.  Just my 2 cents. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by bmorse

The good news for now is, Sierra is conducting business as normal.

Don't think so. SS employees aren't getting paid. Maybe that's why no one is saying anything?

http://www.angrysnowboarder.com/?p=7055
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 2:26pm
I think everyone should chill out and wait until the staff says something,
I mean nothing changed right?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 2:40pm
Out of curiosity, why does this angry snowboarder have such a bug up their ass about SierraSnowboard?  The last time I saw such oddly-directed animosity was the hillaryis44.org crew during the Democratic primaries.

"Rawr, I hate companies that sell things for less than other companies" seems like an odd position to take, unless you're one of the other companies.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by Snowguy7

what were you banned from and why??

I wanna see how high you are up on the bad-ass scale Big smile



Nothing badass for me, I got banned from strict forums unlike this one.  I got banned from anandtech, which i was able to undo after a few months off. And diabloii.net and wow.net for being too mean too religious people and having offensive quotes( i used to be really into the band Tool and they have some pretty offensive quotes I liked to use).  I'm more relaxed now though, lots of good pot helps with that. 

I think scorer should be aloud back if he asks nicely.  I doubt he will though, he claimed he didn't care about the member discounts and free stuff(even if he did take it) and that he didn't care if the forum disappeared because he could talk to his sierrasnowboard friends through other outlets. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 2:43pm
if he didn't care..why was he in the forums all the time?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by BVoZ

I think everyone should chill out and wait until the staff says something,
I mean nothing changed right?

No way...... nobody chill, keep up with the speculation and name calling........ it makes this place boarder-line interesting. 







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by myke

For the record - this sort of scratches the surface of the part of this dispute that does actually matter. There's things going on that are irrelevant - and things that everybody should be paying attention to.

The question about vendor agreements, whether burton has the right/power to enforce aspects of the agreement, unilaterally change the agreement, etc is an issue that reaches far beyond snowboarding. 
As I've said in the past, disputes like this and the arguments companies like Burton are making - are nothing new in the rest of the retail world. This is a question that's been coming to a head throughout the retail industry, even spawning potential legislation as a result. 
If you really think this is all about 'protecting mom and pop shops' you're out of your mind. There's so much more at play here then that, and the consequences could reach far beyond anything anyone is talking about now.

That's part of the bigger picture a lot of you "it's just snowboarding, get over it" types don't quite seem to understand. Cases like this lay the groundwork for how future disputes play out, and sets the stage for deciding where a manufacturer's rights end, and a retailer's rights begin (that's kind of the core of the argument). 
If a manufacturer like Burton has rights that extent to telling a retailer how and when they can sell product, how it's marketed - where does it end? Could that same manufacturer tell a retailer what OTHER product they can have on the floor? What if a company like burton decides that part of the retail agreement says "you can't sell Mervin boards if you sell burton boards" or "you can't sell Rome bindings if you also sell Burton bindings" - is that Kosher? Afterall - if it's the retail agreement...


Practices where retail agreements dictate pricing have been around a long time, especially in industries like retail electronics (think Bose), where sales can only be issued and approved by the manufacturer.  This essentially handcuffs a retailer and can essentially tie up inventory that would otherwise have been sold had they a little more freedom.  The issue Burton had was the protection of their perceived market value.  With the strong % reductions Sierra had on their product, it would devalue their product in the eyes of the market.  That's what Burton's primary motivation is, protecting their margins.  Not the mom and pop shop, not other retailers, and certainly not the consumer.  They are a business and they want to make money, and the easiest way to do that is maintain value and margins.  Will this help other retailers and B&M's? Absolutely, because it eliminates competition among your retailers and puts everyone on the same playing field.  You will be able to go into any shop and find the exact same product the same price as you would anywhere else.  Personally, I don't agree with that.  If you purchase product from a company, you should have the right to price that product according to how you see fit, and how best to maximize your business.

The point Myke hit on, which actually interests me, is that this is the first time I have seen a company taken to task over its price fixing practices.  This could, key word 'could', set the bar for any future vendor agreement by any manufacturer selling goods in the United States.  If the determination is made that companies can no longer dictate the price scheme of a retailer, or the prescribed allowable sale schedule, big changes will happen in retail all over.  Again, personally, I'm all for reform of this kind.  All the price fixing does is keep good products out of the hands of people that will appreciate them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by lightning80

if he didn't care..why was he in the forums all the time?
  These are just the things he said.  I don't know what his motivation was.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 5:28pm
Lightning80 I was thinking the same thing.  If he doesn't care, why would he "waste" his time in a forum of a company he could care less about.  I personally don't know anyone who doesn't want to save a dollar or two whenever they can.  Isn't that one of the reasons (one of the many) that we all support Sierras Snowboard? (well, most of us support SS)  Anyone who would rather pay full price is crazy.  Magicweed3 said it best "All the price fixing does is keep good products out of the hands of people that will appreciate them."  I obviously don't fully understand or fully agree with the business aspect regarding Burton and wanting their pruducts to be sold at a certian price until they give the "OK" to sell it for less.  SS carried a sh_t load of Burton products and from the looks of their inventory on line, sold almost all of it.  Burton made a little money (hopefully) by having SS sell their pruducts and a ton of people (not me) are riding and wearing Burton products.  Seems like a win win for both sides.  Who ever made the comment about "Thehouse" carrying Burton products is probably on the right track.Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2010 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by BudAshes

Originally posted by lightning80

if he didn't care..why was he in the forums all the time?
  These are just the things he said.  I don't know what his motivation was.

'care' about what...... I am sure he was entertained coming on here...... what more of a reason do you need.









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