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lightning80 View Drop Down
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  Quote lightning80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jesus Christ
    Posted: May/22/2015 at 11:01am
I agree, without grace, there is no salvation. There is also no faith without works. I would think part of "obedience" is obeying the 10 Commandments. Every time someone asked Jesus what they must do to be saved, did Jesus ever only say that they're saved by grace? No, Jesus always tells them some things they must do. And this includes keeping the commandments.

Keeping the Sabbath is actually not a legalistic observance. God rested on the 7th day way before (about 2000 years) the Mosaic regulations and statutes were in place. God blessed the 7th day and made it holy when the world was created. All He wants from us is to remember it and keep it holy.

Did Jesus keep the Sabbath? Yes. Did the Apostles keep the Sabbath? Yes. Why not us?

Did the Bible ever say we just have to keep the Sabbath in our hearts? No. Did the Bible every say we can stop keeping the Sabbath? No. Did the Bible tell us to start going to church on Sundays? No. So, where are all of these ideas coming from? Sometimes, we just take the freedom and liberty of interpreting the Bible a little too far to suit our own needs and desires.

Not all of those tho called out "Lord, Lord" were saved...
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  Quote snowboardslider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2015 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by lightning80

I agree, without grace, there is no salvation. There is also no faith without works. I would think part of "obedience" is obeying the 10 Commandments. Every time someone asked Jesus what they must do to be saved, did Jesus ever only say that they're saved by grace? No, Jesus always tells them some things they must do. And this includes keeping the commandments.

Keeping the Sabbath is actually not a legalistic observance. God rested on the 7th day way before (about 2000 years) the Mosaic regulations and statutes were in place. God blessed the 7th day and made it holy when the world was created. All He wants from us is to remember it and keep it holy.

Did Jesus keep the Sabbath? Yes. Did the Apostles keep the Sabbath? Yes. Why not us?

Did the Bible ever say we just have to keep the Sabbath in our hearts? No. Did the Bible every say we can stop keeping the Sabbath? No. Did the Bible tell us to start going to church on Sundays? No. So, where are all of these ideas coming from? Sometimes, we just take the freedom and liberty of interpreting the Bible a little too far to suit our own needs and desires.

Not all of those tho called out "Lord, Lord" were saved...
all good points to be considered. along with the actual date of Christmas...which actually originated from a pagan holiday called Christ's Mass - where all evil was 'allowed' for a few days. I'd say it's about the heart. The Bible says that that's what He looks at anyway. Simply going to church for me doesn't always do something drastic. I have to desire to receive from Him and worship Him.
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  Quote snowboardslider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2015 at 2:32pm
your thoughts on In Touch ministries by Pastor Charles Stanley. I just discovered his devotional in addition to his YouTube sermons.
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  Quote lightning80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2015 at 3:47pm
Yes, it's in the heart. But, faith without works is dead. And the work we do is by obeying God's commands. From the Book of Hebrews, how did the patriarchs show they had faith? By their works. If we have faith, we will naturally have the works. We have faith that God's commands are real, so we show our faith by following those commands.

Mt 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Only those that does the will of God shall enter the kingdom of heaven. If we don't do His will, but follow our own, then we are those that practice lawlessness. What is God's will from the beginning? Obedience.
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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/01/2015 at 10:57pm
Where is the instruction for how the sabbath is to be kept? If it's in the OT, who then has the responsibility of putting sabbath-breakers to death?
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  Quote lightning80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/02/2015 at 10:22am
In the OT, doing work on the Sabbath is punishable by death. In the NT, the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). Is anybody stoning anyone for sin in the NT? No, in the NT, it's spiritual death. So, God is responsible for putting the Sabbath-breaker to spiritual death. And spiritual death = eternal fire = hell. If you don't obey God, you sin. If you sin, your wages is hell. Yes, God is merciful and loving; but not if you don't repent. And if you truly repent, then you will not continue to sin. But, continuing to ignore the 10 commandments that were handwritten by God = not obeying = sin = spiritual death = hell.

It seems that your logic is that instructions that were written in the OT, they don't need to be followed? So, it's ok to make and worship idols and other gods? It's ok to steal? It's ok to murder? Those instructions were in the OT, and who's responsible for punishing these?
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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/05/2015 at 7:23pm
It seems that your logic is that instructions that were written in the OT, they don't NEED to be followed?
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  Quote lightning80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/11/2015 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by sgreen

It seems that your logic is that instructions that were written in the OT, they don't NEED to be followed?

The 10 Commandments NEED to be followed. God wrote them Himself, in stone...

Mt 5:17-20: Jesus fulfilled the "law", but those who break the "commandments" and teach others to do so will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. There's a difference between "law" and "commandments". In the NT, we no longer need to follow the "law", but we still need to follow the "commandments".

Jesus Himself says we should keep them and not break them:
Jn 14:15, 21; Jn 15:10...if you love Me, keep My "commandments"

Then disciples wrote that we should keep them:
1 Jn 5:2-4; 2 Jn 1:6...keep "commandments", walk in them

So, which part of the Bible did it say we don't need to follow/keep the 10 commandments? Because that's what your logic indicates.
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  Quote snowboardslider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/20/2015 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by lightning80

Originally posted by sgreen

It seems that your logic is that instructions that were written in the OT, they don't NEED to be followed?

The 10 Commandments NEED to be followed. God wrote them Himself, in stone...

Mt 5:17-20: Jesus fulfilled the "law", but those who break the "commandments" and teach others to do so will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. There's a difference between "law" and "commandments". In the NT, we no longer need to follow the "law", but we still need to follow the "commandments".

Jesus Himself says we should keep them and not break them:
Jn 14:15, 21; Jn 15:10...if you love Me, keep My "commandments"

Then disciples wrote that we should keep them:
1 Jn 5:2-4; 2 Jn 1:6...keep "commandments", walk in them

So, which part of the Bible did it say we don't need to follow/keep the 10 commandments? Because that's what your logic indicates.
you are correct in the technical, however, the rich young ruler said, "ALL these have I kept..." He went away sad. He missed the boat. I'm not here saying you don't need to follow the 10 commandments. I'm not naive. On the contrary, God wants us to not be Pharisaical by not loving our neighbor as ourselves. 1 Corinthians 13 emphasizes the importance of LOVE above everything else.
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  Quote lightning80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/22/2015 at 11:39am
Right, the rich young ruler kept the commandments but still walked away sad, because he was not able to sacrifice his worldly status and possessions in order to follow Christ. So, you are correct that keeping the commandments ONLY will not save us. At the same time, ONLY having love will also not save us. We need to have both. But many Christians today focus on love and neglect the commandments. The 4th commandment is pretty simple and clear, yet most Christians choose to keep Sunday instead and talk about how important love is and much God loves us.

It's almost like a dad specifically asked for hot dogs for Father's Day, and that's all he wants. But the kids wake up extra early to cook him breakfast in bed with pancakes, sausages, bacon, and everything else. Is the dad happy, yes, and no. He didn't get what he wanted, even though what he got was nice. We know that God wants obedience more than sacrifice. So, why don't we just obey? I really don't understand how so many preachers/pastors reading the Bible would ignore the the 4th commandment to keep the Sabbath and just hold services on Sunday. Why don't they just follow the Bible and tell their congregation to follow the Bible?
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  Quote snowboardslider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/23/2015 at 6:18am
Originally posted by lightning80

Right, the rich young ruler kept the commandments but still walked away sad, because he was not able to sacrifice his worldly status and possessions in order to follow Christ. So, you are correct that keeping the commandments ONLY will not save us. At the same time, ONLY having love will also not save us. We need to have both. But many Christians today focus on love and neglect the commandments. The 4th commandment is pretty simple and clear, yet most Christians choose to keep Sunday instead and talk about how important love is and much God loves us.

It's almost like a dad specifically asked for hot dogs for Father's Day, and that's all he wants. But the kids wake up extra early to cook him breakfast in bed with pancakes, sausages, bacon, and everything else. Is the dad happy, yes, and no. He didn't get what he wanted, even though what he got was nice. We know that God wants obedience more than sacrifice. So, why don't we just obey? I really don't understand how so many preachers/pastors reading the Bible would ignore the the 4th commandment to keep the Sabbath and just hold services on Sunday. Why don't they just follow the Bible and tell their congregation to follow the Bible?
well said lightning. I've walked with the Lord enough to know that the hope and plans He has for us are a well lit path. secure, prosperous in any and every direction. In short, He watches over the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked will perish. discouragement, no hope, peace, or future. nothing works or looks like it will work. death or life. how hard IS obedience indeed. if one could just be obedient all the time, they would rest in that awesome zone, where everything he does prospers.
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  Quote lightning80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/23/2015 at 11:01am
Yes, full obedience is hard. But some things are NOT that hard. Like, keeping the Sabbath on the right day. We just have to pick Saturday instead of Sunday, that's all. How is that hard?

Loving your enemies is hard. Turning the other cheek is hard. Walking the extra mile is hard. Feeling sexual immorality is hard. No coveting is hard. Not bearing false witness is hard. But, choosing one day over the other, is not. Let's obey as much as we can. Saying obedience is too hard and to be content on not reaching it and not trying to do the easier parts that we're able to do...I don't think God would be pleased with that. Because James 2:10 tells us that if we break 1 commandment, we broke them all. How can we be sure of our salvation (now we have come full circle back to the topic we started on being sure of our salvation), if we've broken all of the commandments? And we're not even trying to fix it? Not repenting. Not changing our ways?

I've focused on just the 4th commandment because that's the one most Christians (maybe more than 90%?) are breaking. The same reasoning applies to all of the commandments. But, how sad and pitiful would it be if 90+% of Christians won't be saved simply because of 1 commandments? And Jesus tells us, that he doesn't know us, to depart from Him, because we practiced lawlessness (Mt 7:23)?
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  Quote phone789 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/23/2015 at 11:41pm
i tried [Quote]telnet public IP 25
meizu mx5
meizu mx 5
And Error is Connection Refused.
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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/30/2015 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by lightning80

Yes, full obedience is hard. But some things are NOT that hard. Like, keeping the Sabbath on the right day. We just have to pick Saturday instead of Sunday, that's all. How is that hard?

Your list of reasons for keeping the Saturday sabbath:

1. It's clear (in Mk 2) that keeping the commandments is directly related to salvation, and keeping the sabbath is one of the 10 Commandments.

2. We shouldn't think some Roman emperor, who stopped worshiping on the Sabbath a few centuries later, thereby removing the Lord from the sabbath, knew better than Jesus and the Apostles.

3. You agree, without grace, there is no salvation. There is also no faith without works. You would think part of "obedience" is obeying the 10 Commandments.

4. It's not legalistic.

5. All God wants from us with regard to the sabbath is to remember it and keep it holy.

6. Jesus and the Apostles kept the sabbath, so why not us?

7. Jesus never only said that they're saved by grace. No, Jesus always tells them some things they must do. And this includes keeping the commandments.

8. The Bible doesn't say we just have to keep the sabbath in our hearts.

9. The Bible doesn't say we can stop keeping the sabbath.

10. The Bible doesn't tell us to start going to church on Sundays.

11. Sunday worship is just taking the freedom and liberty of interpreting the Bible a little too far to suit our own needs and desires.

12. Faith without works is dead. And the work we do is by obeying God's commands, just like the patriarchs.

13. We have faith that God's commands are real, so we show our faith by following those commands.

14. Only those that do the will of God (Saturday sabbath) shall enter the kingdom of heaven. If we don't do His will (keep the sabbath on Saturday), but follow our own (Sunday sabbath), then we are those that practice lawlessness. What is God's will from the beginning? Obedience (Saturday sabbath).

15.  If you truly repent, then you will not continue to sin. But, continuing to ignore the 10 commandments that were handwritten by God = not obeying = sin = spiritual death = hell.

16. The 10 Commandments NEED to be followed. God wrote them Himself, in stone...

17. Many Christians today focus on love and neglect the commandments.

18. Sunday worship instead of Saturday is almost like a dad specifically asked for hot dogs for Father's Day, and got something else.

19. You really don't understand how so many preachers/pastors reading the Bible would ignore the the 4th commandment to keep the Sabbath and just hold services on Sunday.

20. Keeping the sabbath on Saturday is EASY!


I've tried to list them chronologically. Let me know if I've missed anything.
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  Quote kzootimmy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/04/2015 at 10:19am
You may say to yourself, "My power and the strength of my hands have produced this wealth for me." But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth.
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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/04/2015 at 6:11pm
Happy 4th to everyone! God bless!
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  Quote kzootimmy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/05/2015 at 7:38am
If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.
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  Quote lightning80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/13/2015 at 10:27am
Thanks, sgreen, for the summary. I only pointed out the Sabbath because the majority of Christians don't follow it. The next one is probably adultery...Confused
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