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  Quote athousandmonkeys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jesus Christ
    Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by robsta

i think that anyone trying to bring people closer to god are good people.
Like the 911 hijackers, for example.
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  Quote zakk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by zhenjie

Just curious as to why people believe the God of Abrahamic religions is more valid then Shiva, Buddha, Xenu, Serpent God, Sun god Ra,etc?
Hmmm. I guess you'd have to read their sacred texts to find out. I'm only familiar with Christianity and Judaism because they both share the some of the same texts: the Torah and the Bible's first five books are pretty much, if not exactly, the same. The OT and Torah say, "Put no other gods before me." Their doctrines are exclusive. I don't know what the Quran says on the subject.


Yeah, the Quran has no belief in the old testament.  *sigh* 

The bible is like a Terms of Service agreement.  No one reads it, they get get to the end and click "I Agree"
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  Quote zhenjie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by robsta

Again It's funny to me that so many people try to get rid of god in society. I just read a poll that said 93% of Americans and 96% of the world believe in god. How can you say that 9 out of 10 people in the world are irrational, delusional people? The cyncism that comes from atheists is always way over the top. Simply saying you don't believe in god is enough.


But they don't all believe in the SAME god? And when you break it down further, some people may believe in the same god but in totally different ways. Muslims thinks Christian are lost children in their way they practice, and vice versa. What makes your God more valid then the others?
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  Quote zhenjie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by robsta

monkeys if you had read one of my previous posts i said i think that anyone trying to bring people closer to god are good people. I think all religions have truth.


So the people who started the Crusades are good people?
Or the hijackers on SEpt 11? They are better then atheist as they had god on their mind?

Do all religions have truths? Does Xenu have any validity? Or the Sun god Ra?


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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

I don't think it purely coincidental that out of the meanings for the word "bemusement", you chose one implying a "failure" on my part "to understand". 
Actually, I found more than one. My source, www.thefreedictionary.com, gave these definitions:
1. To cause to be bewildered; confuse.
2. To cause to be engrossed in thought.
3. Confusion resulting from failure to understand
4. A mental state characterized by a lack of clear and orderly thought and behavior; "a confusion of impressions"
It was your word choice, not mine. I thought it was coincidentally humorous, because, after all, you consider yourself rational and intelligent. If you have another definition that you think is more appropriate, state it. And please cite your source, if you don't mind.
   Bottom line: Even by other definitions (Webster's- wry or tolerant amusement) I've since found, I don't think that you are in any way bemused by Christians, or anyone else who believes in a deity or deities.  You referred to those who "
believe the God of Abrahamic religions", which includes Christians, as "God-botherers", "Nutbags", and "seriously gullible/deluded/brainwashed whack-job". (Was I incorrect to think that you were referring to the same group of people when you called some "Gullible, irrational imbeciles" and "so easily brainwashed"?)
   Now, as to your being rational and intelligent, which of your comments on this forum have shown either of those qualities? What is rational and/or intelligent about name-calling and stereotyping?
   I can understand the thinking of most people.  The questions, doubts,and disbelief. (My own conversion took place over many years, and without the aid of anyone to "brainwash" me) I don't understand the anger and hostility and arrogance of people like you. Where does that come from? What is the rationality and intelligence of your ridicule? Your disbelief is just as irrational as my belief. You cannot disprove the existence of God anymore than I can prove his existence.
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  Quote pipecode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 8:05pm
Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

Originally posted by robsta

i think that anyone trying to bring people closer to god are good people.
Like the 911 hijackers, for example.


You forgot the priests having their way with little boys.  And the televangelists taking peoples money. And the suicide bombers.  And Kirk Cameron.
I'm here for the points and if you're reading this, it means I just got one more!
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  Quote athousandmonkeys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by pipecode

... And Kirk Cameron.

Hahaha - gold! Clap
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  Quote myungsup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 8:16pm
hm i was hoping this topic would become a debate instead of personal lashes. but i guess here's my next installment to the topic. why do people keep stating that religion is irrational? and don't state "because it is. because you can't prove God". quite frankly, you cannot disprove Him either.  40% of evolutionary biologists happen to be followers of SOME SORT of religion. if these people are truly irrational, you should start considering to cut 40% of all new evolutionary articles out the window.  i happen to like reading articles off JSTOR, and finding good articles are hard enough; having to potentially cut 40% of those articles sucks.  i'm gonna take my chances and say that these biologists know exactly what they're thinking. 
i chose christianity not because it's the majority. i admit i was born into a christian family, but that had no true bearing on my decision to be a christian. as a matter of fact, i can say i left the faith during my first 2 years of college, when all the BME info SEEMED to contradict what i learned in church.  i did some reevaluation during my summer off, read through some other religions, and to be quite frank, christianity happened to just make sense for me. YES.. i said it made SENSE. i thought it out rationally. there's no reason for me to delve into that decision, but i did it from a very agnostic point of view.  i say agnostic because i posted earlier some very basic probabilities, and it honestly seems more probable to me that some deity caused our universe to form rather than an extensive chain of Heisenberg uncertainties. 
i believe in God and i believe in science. believing in one never has meant the rejection of the other. where would we be without darwin and his amazing hypotheses and theories, ESPECIALLY pertaining to the great evolutionary debate? he was a believer in God.  where would we be without CALCULUS.. or newtonian physics without sir isaac newton? he was a believer in god.  where would we be without the amazing astrological discoveries of galileo? he was a believer in god.  all three of these guys stirred up a lot of trouble within the church, and i blame HUMANS for it, not God.  humans can only interpret sacred text as well as the next sinner. and God's word is also... written by sinners. i'm not going to say that explains the contradictions because i think that's a whole other topic on its own, but i digress.  
the problem within the scientific and the religious community is that they think there's only one path to knowledge. i think science and religion happen to reveal very different truths. one describes physical truths and the other describes spiritual truths. aside from explaining certain facets in life, i don't think there really is much else that they have in common.
i'm not going to say "this is the spirit.. etc etc" but if you put a human in a vacuum with adequate oxygen flow before they die and weigh the vacuum, the room will weigh about 2 grams less after they die. science has been unable to explain it. just curious what people think about that phenomena. 

p.s. seeing how this topic has led in a certain direction, don't flame me for misspellings or misuse of words. i'm sure you understand the gist of the sentence. Tongue
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  Quote pipecode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by myungsup

hm i was hoping this topic would become a debate instead of personal lashes. but i guess here's my next installment to the topic. why do people keep stating that religion is irrational? and don't state "because it is. because you can't prove God". quite frankly, you cannot disprove Him either.  40% of evolutionary biologists happen to be followers of SOME SORT of religion. if these people are truly irrational, you should start considering to cut 40% of all new evolutionary articles out the window.  i happen to like reading articles off JSTOR, and finding good articles are hard enough; having to potentially cut 40% of those articles sucks.  i'm gonna take my chances and say that these biologists know exactly what they're thinking. 
i chose christianity not because it's the majority. i admit i was born into a christian family, but that had no true bearing on my decision to be a christian. as a matter of fact, i can say i left the faith during my first 2 years of college, when all the BME info SEEMED to contradict what i learned in church.  i did some reevaluation during my summer off, read through some other religions, and to be quite frank, christianity happened to just make sense for me. YES.. i said it made SENSE. i thought it out rationally. there's no reason for me to delve into that decision, but i did it from a very agnostic point of view.  i say agnostic because i posted earlier some very basic probabilities, and it honestly seems more probable to me that some deity caused our universe to form rather than an extensive chain of Heisenberg uncertainties. 
i believe in God and i believe in science. believing in one never has meant the rejection of the other. where would we be without darwin and his amazing hypotheses and theories, ESPECIALLY pertaining to the great evolutionary debate? he was a believer in God.  where would we be without CALCULUS.. or newtonian physics without sir isaac newton? he was a believer in god.  where would we be without the amazing astrological discoveries of galileo? he was a believer in god.  all three of these guys stirred up a lot of trouble within the church, and i blame HUMANS for it, not God.  humans can only interpret sacred text as well as the next sinner. and God's word is also... written by sinners. i'm not going to say that explains the contradictions because i think that's a whole other topic on its own, but i digress.  
the problem within the scientific and the religious community is that they think there's only one path to knowledge. i think science and religion happen to reveal very different truths. one describes physical truths and the other describes spiritual truths. aside from explaining certain facets in life, i don't think there really is much else that they have in common.
i'm not going to say "this is the spirit.. etc etc" but if you put a human in a vacuum with adequate oxygen flow before they die and weigh the vacuum, the room will weigh about 2 grams less after they die. science has been unable to explain it. just curious what people think about that phenomena. 

p.s. seeing how this topic has led in a certain direction, don't flame me for misspellings or misuse of words. i'm sure you understand the gist of the sentence. Tongue


Finally, a well articulated argument.  While I may not agree entirely with what you said, I respect it since it was well though out and presented.
I'm here for the points and if you're reading this, it means I just got one more!
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  Quote athousandmonkeys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 8:27pm
Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

I don't think it purely coincidental that out of the meanings for the word "bemusement", you chose one implying a "failure" on my part "to understand". 
Actually, I found more than one ...
Ummmmmm, yeah, no kidding - that's what I was saying. Of course you "found more than one" - yet the ONLY one you originally mentioned was the one implying a "failure" on my part "to understand". 

The fact that you now choose to resort to petty semantic pedantry simply reinforces my opinion.
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  Quote pipecode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by myungsup

hm i was hoping this topic would become a debate instead of personal lashes. but i guess here's my next installment to the topic. why do people keep stating that religion is irrational? and don't state "because it is. because you can't prove God". quite frankly, you cannot disprove Him either.  40% of evolutionary biologists happen to be followers of SOME SORT of religion. if these people are truly irrational, you should start considering to cut 40% of all new evolutionary articles out the window.  i happen to like reading articles off JSTOR, and finding good articles are hard enough; having to potentially cut 40% of those articles sucks.  i'm gonna take my chances and say that these biologists know exactly what they're thinking. 
i chose christianity not because it's the majority. i admit i was born into a christian family, but that had no true bearing on my decision to be a christian. as a matter of fact, i can say i left the faith during my first 2 years of college, when all the BME info SEEMED to contradict what i learned in church.  i did some reevaluation during my summer off, read through some other religions, and to be quite frank, christianity happened to just make sense for me. YES.. i said it made SENSE. i thought it out rationally. there's no reason for me to delve into that decision, but i did it from a very agnostic point of view.  i say agnostic because i posted earlier some very basic probabilities, and it honestly seems more probable to me that some deity caused our universe to form rather than an extensive chain of Heisenberg uncertainties. 
i believe in God and i believe in science. believing in one never has meant the rejection of the other. where would we be without darwin and his amazing hypotheses and theories, ESPECIALLY pertaining to the great evolutionary debate? he was a believer in God.  where would we be without CALCULUS.. or newtonian physics without sir isaac newton? he was a believer in god.  where would we be without the amazing astrological discoveries of galileo? he was a believer in god.  all three of these guys stirred up a lot of trouble within the church, and i blame HUMANS for it, not God.  humans can only interpret sacred text as well as the next sinner. and God's word is also... written by sinners. i'm not going to say that explains the contradictions because i think that's a whole other topic on its own, but i digress.  
the problem within the scientific and the religious community is that they think there's only one path to knowledge. i think science and religion happen to reveal very different truths. one describes physical truths and the other describes spiritual truths. aside from explaining certain facets in life, i don't think there really is much else that they have in common.
i'm not going to say "this is the spirit.. etc etc" but if you put a human in a vacuum with adequate oxygen flow before they die and weigh the vacuum, the room will weigh about 2 grams less after they die. science has been unable to explain it. just curious what people think about that phenomena. 

p.s. seeing how this topic has led in a certain direction, don't flame me for misspellings or misuse of words. i'm sure you understand the gist of the sentence. Tongue


Also, it should be noted that there is no problem with having religion AND science.  The problem comes in when there are people claiming Creationism and pushing it into science classrooms when it is a purely theoretical or philosophical subject, meaning there is no proof behind it, yet evolution has tons of scientific proof.
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  Quote pipecode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

Originally posted by pipecode

... And Kirk Cameron.

Hahaha - gold! Clap


Thought you'd enjoy that. Smile
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  Quote BudAshes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by myungsup

hm i was hoping this topic would become a debate instead of personal lashes. but i guess here's my next installment to the topic. why do people keep stating that religion is irrational? and don't state "because it is. because you can't prove God". quite frankly, you cannot disprove Him either.  40% of evolutionary biologists happen to be followers of SOME SORT of religion. if these people are truly irrational, you should start considering to cut 40% of all new evolutionary articles out the window.  i happen to like reading articles off JSTOR, and finding good articles are hard enough; having to potentially cut 40% of those articles sucks.  i'm gonna take my chances and say that these biologists know exactly what they're thinking. 
i chose christianity not because it's the majority. i admit i was born into a christian family, but that had no true bearing on my decision to be a christian. as a matter of fact, i can say i left the faith during my first 2 years of college, when all the BME info SEEMED to contradict what i learned in church.  i did some reevaluation during my summer off, read through some other religions, and to be quite frank, christianity happened to just make sense for me. YES.. i said it made SENSE. i thought it out rationally. there's no reason for me to delve into that decision, but i did it from a very agnostic point of view.  i say agnostic because i posted earlier some very basic probabilities, and it honestly seems more probable to me that some deity caused our universe to form rather than an extensive chain of Heisenberg uncertainties. 
i believe in God and i believe in science. believing in one never has meant the rejection of the other. where would we be without darwin and his amazing hypotheses and theories, ESPECIALLY pertaining to the great evolutionary debate? he was a believer in God.  where would we be without CALCULUS.. or newtonian physics without sir isaac newton? he was a believer in god.  where would we be without the amazing astrological discoveries of galileo? he was a believer in god.  all three of these guys stirred up a lot of trouble within the church, and i blame HUMANS for it, not God.  humans can only interpret sacred text as well as the next sinner. and God's word is also... written by sinners. i'm not going to say that explains the contradictions because i think that's a whole other topic on its own, but i digress.  
the problem within the scientific and the religious community is that they think there's only one path to knowledge. i think science and religion happen to reveal very different truths. one describes physical truths and the other describes spiritual truths. aside from explaining certain facets in life, i don't think there really is much else that they have in common.
i'm not going to say "this is the spirit.. etc etc" but if you put a human in a vacuum with adequate oxygen flow before they die and weigh the vacuum, the room will weigh about 2 grams less after they die. science has been unable to explain it. just curious what people think about that phenomena. 

p.s. seeing how this topic has led in a certain direction, don't flame me for misspellings or misuse of words. i'm sure you understand the gist of the sentence. Tongue


Your response is interesting but ultimately you are still trying to justify the bible.  The bible is not the word of any god, and that is the truth.  Debating agnosticism vs atheism vs deism is a whole other debate, but the bible has little to no bearing on it.  As for your implication that the soul has some dicernable weight in the human body, that is beyond ridiculous.  The experiment you are referring to was done over a century ago, and is unproven. 
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  Quote myungsup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 8:32pm
Originally posted by pipecode

Originally posted by myungsup

hm i was hoping this topic would become a debate instead of personal lashes. but i guess here's my next installment to the topic. why do people keep stating that religion is irrational? and don't state "because it is. because you can't prove God". quite frankly, you cannot disprove Him either.  40% of evolutionary biologists happen to be followers of SOME SORT of religion. if these people are truly irrational, you should start considering to cut 40% of all new evolutionary articles out the window.  i happen to like reading articles off JSTOR, and finding good articles are hard enough; having to potentially cut 40% of those articles sucks.  i'm gonna take my chances and say that these biologists know exactly what they're thinking. 
i chose christianity not because it's the majority. i admit i was born into a christian family, but that had no true bearing on my decision to be a christian. as a matter of fact, i can say i left the faith during my first 2 years of college, when all the BME info SEEMED to contradict what i learned in church.  i did some reevaluation during my summer off, read through some other religions, and to be quite frank, christianity happened to just make sense for me. YES.. i said it made SENSE. i thought it out rationally. there's no reason for me to delve into that decision, but i did it from a very agnostic point of view.  i say agnostic because i posted earlier some very basic probabilities, and it honestly seems more probable to me that some deity caused our universe to form rather than an extensive chain of Heisenberg uncertainties. 
i believe in God and i believe in science. believing in one never has meant the rejection of the other. where would we be without darwin and his amazing hypotheses and theories, ESPECIALLY pertaining to the great evolutionary debate? he was a believer in God.  where would we be without CALCULUS.. or newtonian physics without sir isaac newton? he was a believer in god.  where would we be without the amazing astrological discoveries of galileo? he was a believer in god.  all three of these guys stirred up a lot of trouble within the church, and i blame HUMANS for it, not God.  humans can only interpret sacred text as well as the next sinner. and God's word is also... written by sinners. i'm not going to say that explains the contradictions because i think that's a whole other topic on its own, but i digress.  
the problem within the scientific and the religious community is that they think there's only one path to knowledge. i think science and religion happen to reveal very different truths. one describes physical truths and the other describes spiritual truths. aside from explaining certain facets in life, i don't think there really is much else that they have in common.
i'm not going to say "this is the spirit.. etc etc" but if you put a human in a vacuum with adequate oxygen flow before they die and weigh the vacuum, the room will weigh about 2 grams less after they die. science has been unable to explain it. just curious what people think about that phenomena. 

p.s. seeing how this topic has led in a certain direction, don't flame me for misspellings or misuse of words. i'm sure you understand the gist of the sentence. Tongue


Also, it should be noted that there is no problem with having religion AND science.  The problem comes in when there are people claiming Creationism and pushing it into science classrooms when it is a purely theoretical or philosophical subject, meaning there is no proof behind it, yet evolution has tons of scientific proof.

yeah i personally am not a creationist. lol i think that's bogus. genesis 1 and 2 contradict the creation of adam and eve. it's written poetically too, and i think that the bible has poetic and literal (history-keeping) parts. anyways thanks for respecting my opinion. its hard to get anyone to not lash out on me (from either side). 
and to be honest, i can see why people are anti-religious. you do have these hijackers, the crusades, the priests, etc etc. something is only as strong as the weakest link. it's hard to want to believe in something when its followers seem like the root of evil. i just try to tell myself that sinners cause the evil. it's my rationale, but to each their own. i'm also not a christian who tries to impose christianity on other people. it's like going into rehab for drugs. it only works if the person wants it.
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  Quote pipecode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by BudAshes

Originally posted by myungsup

hm i was hoping this topic would become a debate instead of personal lashes. but i guess here's my next installment to the topic. why do people keep stating that religion is irrational? and don't state "because it is. because you can't prove God". quite frankly, you cannot disprove Him either.  40% of evolutionary biologists happen to be followers of SOME SORT of religion. if these people are truly irrational, you should start considering to cut 40% of all new evolutionary articles out the window.  i happen to like reading articles off JSTOR, and finding good articles are hard enough; having to potentially cut 40% of those articles sucks.  i'm gonna take my chances and say that these biologists know exactly what they're thinking. 
i chose christianity not because it's the majority. i admit i was born into a christian family, but that had no true bearing on my decision to be a christian. as a matter of fact, i can say i left the faith during my first 2 years of college, when all the BME info SEEMED to contradict what i learned in church.  i did some reevaluation during my summer off, read through some other religions, and to be quite frank, christianity happened to just make sense for me. YES.. i said it made SENSE. i thought it out rationally. there's no reason for me to delve into that decision, but i did it from a very agnostic point of view.  i say agnostic because i posted earlier some very basic probabilities, and it honestly seems more probable to me that some deity caused our universe to form rather than an extensive chain of Heisenberg uncertainties. 
i believe in God and i believe in science. believing in one never has meant the rejection of the other. where would we be without darwin and his amazing hypotheses and theories, ESPECIALLY pertaining to the great evolutionary debate? he was a believer in God.  where would we be without CALCULUS.. or newtonian physics without sir isaac newton? he was a believer in god.  where would we be without the amazing astrological discoveries of galileo? he was a believer in god.  all three of these guys stirred up a lot of trouble within the church, and i blame HUMANS for it, not God.  humans can only interpret sacred text as well as the next sinner. and God's word is also... written by sinners. i'm not going to say that explains the contradictions because i think that's a whole other topic on its own, but i digress.  
the problem within the scientific and the religious community is that they think there's only one path to knowledge. i think science and religion happen to reveal very different truths. one describes physical truths and the other describes spiritual truths. aside from explaining certain facets in life, i don't think there really is much else that they have in common.
i'm not going to say "this is the spirit.. etc etc" but if you put a human in a vacuum with adequate oxygen flow before they die and weigh the vacuum, the room will weigh about 2 grams less after they die. science has been unable to explain it. just curious what people think about that phenomena. 

p.s. seeing how this topic has led in a certain direction, don't flame me for misspellings or misuse of words. i'm sure you understand the gist of the sentence. Tongue


Your response is interesting but ultimately you are still trying to justify the bible.  The bible is not the word of any god, and that is the truth.  Debating agnosticism vs atheism vs deism is a whole other debate, but the bible has little to no bearing on it.  As for your implication that the soul has some dicernable weight in the human body, that is beyond ridiculous.  The experiment you are referring to was done over a century ago, and is unproven. 


Well stated.  The fact is that although people claim it is the word of God, it was written by man, who according to the bible is fallible, so you can't take it at it's word.
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  Quote myungsup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by BudAshes

Originally posted by myungsup

hm i was hoping this topic would become a debate instead of personal lashes. but i guess here's my next installment to the topic. why do people keep stating that religion is irrational? and don't state "because it is. because you can't prove God". quite frankly, you cannot disprove Him either.  40% of evolutionary biologists happen to be followers of SOME SORT of religion. if these people are truly irrational, you should start considering to cut 40% of all new evolutionary articles out the window.  i happen to like reading articles off JSTOR, and finding good articles are hard enough; having to potentially cut 40% of those articles sucks.  i'm gonna take my chances and say that these biologists know exactly what they're thinking. 
i chose christianity not because it's the majority. i admit i was born into a christian family, but that had no true bearing on my decision to be a christian. as a matter of fact, i can say i left the faith during my first 2 years of college, when all the BME info SEEMED to contradict what i learned in church.  i did some reevaluation during my summer off, read through some other religions, and to be quite frank, christianity happened to just make sense for me. YES.. i said it made SENSE. i thought it out rationally. there's no reason for me to delve into that decision, but i did it from a very agnostic point of view.  i say agnostic because i posted earlier some very basic probabilities, and it honestly seems more probable to me that some deity caused our universe to form rather than an extensive chain of Heisenberg uncertainties. 
i believe in God and i believe in science. believing in one never has meant the rejection of the other. where would we be without darwin and his amazing hypotheses and theories, ESPECIALLY pertaining to the great evolutionary debate? he was a believer in God.  where would we be without CALCULUS.. or newtonian physics without sir isaac newton? he was a believer in god.  where would we be without the amazing astrological discoveries of galileo? he was a believer in god.  all three of these guys stirred up a lot of trouble within the church, and i blame HUMANS for it, not God.  humans can only interpret sacred text as well as the next sinner. and God's word is also... written by sinners. i'm not going to say that explains the contradictions because i think that's a whole other topic on its own, but i digress.  
the problem within the scientific and the religious community is that they think there's only one path to knowledge. i think science and religion happen to reveal very different truths. one describes physical truths and the other describes spiritual truths. aside from explaining certain facets in life, i don't think there really is much else that they have in common.
i'm not going to say "this is the spirit.. etc etc" but if you put a human in a vacuum with adequate oxygen flow before they die and weigh the vacuum, the room will weigh about 2 grams less after they die. science has been unable to explain it. just curious what people think about that phenomena. 

p.s. seeing how this topic has led in a certain direction, don't flame me for misspellings or misuse of words. i'm sure you understand the gist of the sentence. Tongue


Your response is interesting but ultimately you are still trying to justify the bible.  The bible is not the word of any god, and that is the truth.  Debating agnosticism vs atheism vs deism is a whole other debate, but the bible has little to no bearing on it.  As for your implication that the soul has some dicernable weight in the human body, that is beyond ridiculous.  The experiment you are referring to was done over a century ago, and is unproven. 

hm maybe i wrote in a way that suggested that i was justifying the bible. i'm pro religion and pro science. i just happened to pick christianity because it made sense to me. my roommate is athiest because he believes religion spoonfeeds you morals that can be concluded upon just by living life.  i agree.. "do not lie" "do not steal" etc etc go against human morale. i guess my justification in a deity is "where do these morals come from?" religion happens to give me comfort in some unknowns that go down a path science just will not touch. and it's not because science is fallible, it's just because religion deals with a different realm.. at least for me. 
also i acknowledge the bible is written by mortals. i understand contradictions are made everywhere. i also understand that science is nearly infallible. we rarely disprove theories and laws, but we build upon them every day.  yet i still have found a personal safeway in religion. both science and religion give me solace. that is all.
also thanks for clearing up that experiment.
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  Quote athousandmonkeys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by myungsup

. . . pro religion and pro science . . .
The only way "religious scientist" wouldn't be an oxymoron, is if "religious" was an adjective denoting the scientist's devotion/approach to their work. 

The only way religion and science genuinely go hand-in-hand, is if hypocrisy is holding the other one.
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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

...
The only way religion and science genuinely go hand-in-hand, is if hypocrisy is holding the other one.
Who's hand is hypocrisy holding? Religion's or science's? Maybe hypocrisy is holding one hand from each and they form a circle.Big smile
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  Quote zhenjie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 9:42pm
It doesn't seem like you 'picked' Christianity at all myungsuo. As you said you were born into a Christian family and I'm sure you know that young children are very impressionable (hence the problems with pedophile priest and children not speaking out). If you were to grow up in a middle eastern or Asian country, do you still think you would be a Christian?

Religion and science to the core don't mix. Because quite frankly, there is only one science vs many many religions created by a man or men. Look at the Church trying to tell Galileo he was wrong all those years.
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  Quote athousandmonkeys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

...
The only way religion and science genuinely go hand-in-hand, is if hypocrisy is holding the other one.
Who's hand is hypocrisy holding? Religion's or science's? Maybe hypocrisy is holding one hand from each and they form a circle.Big smile

There could be a circle, if one additional player was added into the mix - theory. Religion always being separated from science by either theory or hypocrisy.
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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

I don't think it purely coincidental that out of the meanings for the word "bemusement", you chose one implying a "failure" on my part "to understand". 
Actually, I found more than one ...
Ummmmmm, yeah, no kidding - that's what I was saying. Of course you "found more than one" - yet the ONLY one you originally mentioned was the one implying a "failure" on my part "to understand". 

The fact that you now choose to resort to petty semantic pedantry simply reinforces my opinion.
There was no implication of anything in quoting that definition and I wasn't trying to be insulting. I simply thought that it was funny that you would choose to flatter yourself with a word that has a couple of less-than-flattering possible definitions. I could have picked a worse-sounding definition from that list. (EDIT)
  
What is your purpose for coming on here and being a bully? What's going on?

My apologies to anyone who read this post before I edited it.
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  Quote eldolocal68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 10:09pm
"i always tried to read the bible, but it jus' seemed to be an inferior lord of the rings"
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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 10:12pm
Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

...
The only way religion and science genuinely go hand-in-hand, is if hypocrisy is holding the other one.
Who's hand is hypocrisy holding? Religion's or science's? Maybe hypocrisy is holding one hand from each and they form a circle.Big smile
Oops, my bad. I should have said 'triangle'.
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  Quote athousandmonkeys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 10:34pm
Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by sgreen

Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

...
The only way religion and science genuinely go hand-in-hand, is if hypocrisy is holding the other one.
Who's hand is hypocrisy holding? Religion's or science's? Maybe hypocrisy is holding one hand from each and they form a circle.Big smile
Oops, my bad. I should have said 'triangle'.

Your "triangle" is IMPOSSIBLE. The fundamental point is that religion and science can NEVER go hand-in-hand.
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  Quote myungsup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 10:39pm
i don't see why someone cannot be religious and scientific. they have nothing in common and they don't denounce each other. the only real reason why people say that is because back in the old days religion was used as a way to explain natural phenomena.  i don't use religion in that way. it helps me spiritually rather than explain natural phenomena. i don't use religion to explain science and i don't use science to explain religion. i mentioned galileo earlier, who happened to be a christain himself.  the church tried using religion to explain natural phenomena, which i personally don't think religion is meant to do. if any god wanted to explain these things to mankind, he/she/they would explain the human genome, map out the brain, etc etc. people are too engrossed in gap theories and lose their faith or try to steer people from faith using this theory.  just because evolution goes against what the church is saying doesn't mean it goes against christianity. it's just how people are interpreting their religious texts. people get all flustered when a scientific discovery shakes their faith. it doesn't shake mine because i don't use religion to explain NATURAL phenomena. there's no line, triangle, circle, or square connecting religion and science. people just like to pretend that there is.

i also mentioned i grew up as a christian AND leaving the faith. living in the US, i'm exposed to many different religions, so when i was reevaluating which faith to follow, i could get equal exposure to all religions. in fact, i was pretty sure i wasn't going to return to the faith when i restarted my journey.  of course in the middle east, it would be MUCH.. MUCH harder to learn about other religions. being a christian once had no bearing on my decision to return to the faith.
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  Quote athousandmonkeys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 10:43pm
That's a pretty big chip you've got on your shoulder there sgreen.

It seems I'm getting under your skin. What, a little too much truth for ya? If you truly had "faith", my opinion wouldn't bother you at all. Doesn't your imaginary friend tell you to turn the other cheek?
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  Quote lineears Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by E13

 
Each and every single thing within this post can be proven.  Prove to me what happens when you die.  Show me the proof of your god, your heaven and your hell.  Don't tell me of the myths and stories that have been created and perpetuated through society by man.  Drop a penny off a table and you can prove that it will travel at 9.81 m/s.  You don't have to see it for there to be proof of its existence.  Your logic is tired and novice. 



Can someone prove why there are stars in space? Why there is space and where it came from?

I tried googling it, nothing really showed up.
Go Canucks!
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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

That's a pretty big chip you've got on your shoulder there sgreen. It seems I'm getting under your skin.
I have no "chip" and, yes, I suppose you could be getting under my skin a bit. That will change.
   I honestly don't understand you and your meanness. I don't understand why you don't try to, at the very least, initiate some sort of constructive debate, instead of just throwing around a bunch of insults at people you don't know. The more you post on here, the more 'bemused' I get. I truly do not understand you or your purpose here.
Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

What, a little too much truth for ya?
What truth are you referring to? Your taunts? Are you being pompous? All you've done is ridicule people of faith. I'm not sure what you mean.
Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

If you truly had "faith", my opinion wouldn't bother you at all.
You haven't said anything that's affected my faith in any way. What bothers me is the way you treat people on this thread. You show no compassion at all for people you claim are 'deluded' and 'brainwashed'. Do you think you are helping people by calling them 'imbeciles'?
Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

Doesn't your imaginary friend tell you to turn the other cheek?
I imagine he does. That's what the apology was for.

If you cannot respond to my questions, and I've asked a lot of them, with anything more than taunting and baiting, then this will probably be my last response to you on this particular discussion.
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  Quote athousandmonkeys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/26/2010 at 11:43pm
I'm not "just throwing around a bunch of insults" at all. I genuinely believe that "to be a god-botherer is to be a seriously gullible/deluded/brainwashed whack-job" is a statement of FACT. If you consider this to be an insult, you evidently have doubts about your religion, and need to reassess your own conviction.
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  Quote BudAshes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 12:40am
Originally posted by myungsup

Originally posted by BudAshes

Originally posted by myungsup

hm i was hoping this topic would become a debate instead of personal lashes. but i guess here's my next installment to the topic. why do people keep stating that religion is irrational? and don't state "because it is. because you can't prove God". quite frankly, you cannot disprove Him either.  40% of evolutionary biologists happen to be followers of SOME SORT of religion. if these people are truly irrational, you should start considering to cut 40% of all new evolutionary articles out the window.  i happen to like reading articles off JSTOR, and finding good articles are hard enough; having to potentially cut 40% of those articles sucks.  i'm gonna take my chances and say that these biologists know exactly what they're thinking. 
i chose christianity not because it's the majority. i admit i was born into a christian family, but that had no true bearing on my decision to be a christian. as a matter of fact, i can say i left the faith during my first 2 years of college, when all the BME info SEEMED to contradict what i learned in church.  i did some reevaluation during my summer off, read through some other religions, and to be quite frank, christianity happened to just make sense for me. YES.. i said it made SENSE. i thought it out rationally. there's no reason for me to delve into that decision, but i did it from a very agnostic point of view.  i say agnostic because i posted earlier some very basic probabilities, and it honestly seems more probable to me that some deity caused our universe to form rather than an extensive chain of Heisenberg uncertainties. 
i believe in God and i believe in science. believing in one never has meant the rejection of the other. where would we be without darwin and his amazing hypotheses and theories, ESPECIALLY pertaining to the great evolutionary debate? he was a believer in God.  where would we be without CALCULUS.. or newtonian physics without sir isaac newton? he was a believer in god.  where would we be without the amazing astrological discoveries of galileo? he was a believer in god.  all three of these guys stirred up a lot of trouble within the church, and i blame HUMANS for it, not God.  humans can only interpret sacred text as well as the next sinner. and God's word is also... written by sinners. i'm not going to say that explains the contradictions because i think that's a whole other topic on its own, but i digress.  
the problem within the scientific and the religious community is that they think there's only one path to knowledge. i think science and religion happen to reveal very different truths. one describes physical truths and the other describes spiritual truths. aside from explaining certain facets in life, i don't think there really is much else that they have in common.
i'm not going to say "this is the spirit.. etc etc" but if you put a human in a vacuum with adequate oxygen flow before they die and weigh the vacuum, the room will weigh about 2 grams less after they die. science has been unable to explain it. just curious what people think about that phenomena. 

p.s. seeing how this topic has led in a certain direction, don't flame me for misspellings or misuse of words. i'm sure you understand the gist of the sentence. Tongue


Your response is interesting but ultimately you are still trying to justify the bible.  The bible is not the word of any god, and that is the truth.  Debating agnosticism vs atheism vs deism is a whole other debate, but the bible has little to no bearing on it.  As for your implication that the soul has some dicernable weight in the human body, that is beyond ridiculous.  The experiment you are referring to was done over a century ago, and is unproven. 

hm maybe i wrote in a way that suggested that i was justifying the bible. i'm pro religion and pro science. i just happened to pick christianity because it made sense to me. my roommate is athiest because he believes religion spoonfeeds you morals that can be concluded upon just by living life.  i agree.. "do not lie" "do not steal" etc etc go against human morale. i guess my justification in a deity is "where do these morals come from?" religion happens to give me comfort in some unknowns that go down a path science just will not touch. and it's not because science is fallible, it's just because religion deals with a different realm.. at least for me. 
also i acknowledge the bible is written by mortals. i understand contradictions are made everywhere. i also understand that science is nearly infallible. we rarely disprove theories and laws, but we build upon them every day.  yet i still have found a personal safeway in religion. both science and religion give me solace. that is all.
also thanks for clearing up that experiment.


I respect your view point as long as you don't believe the bible is the infallible word of god and that you are 100% right in your view point of religion and morality.  We're all human and we all want a map to show us the way through our journey of life.  The people I don't respect are the ones who think this map was handed to them by some "authority" in the form of this bible, and that because they have this map they now know better than every one else on the planet.   The bible is historical fiction that may or may not have some basis in reality, if you accept that and still choose to be christian then you have made reasonable choice based on thinking for yourself and you are choosing how you want to live your life.  If the bible contains the philosophy that inspires you and makes you comfortable with being a productive and helpful human being then so be it. 
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  Quote motoxninja80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 12:45am
Yay! Jesus!!!!!haha
God is with me every day, whether i'm at home or whether i'm droppin in on a black....enough said.
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  Quote myungsup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 1:06am
Originally posted by BudAshes

Originally posted by myungsup

Originally posted by BudAshes

Originally posted by myungsup

hm i was hoping this topic would become a debate instead of personal lashes. but i guess here's my next installment to the topic. why do people keep stating that religion is irrational? and don't state "because it is. because you can't prove God". quite frankly, you cannot disprove Him either.  40% of evolutionary biologists happen to be followers of SOME SORT of religion. if these people are truly irrational, you should start considering to cut 40% of all new evolutionary articles out the window.  i happen to like reading articles off JSTOR, and finding good articles are hard enough; having to potentially cut 40% of those articles sucks.  i'm gonna take my chances and say that these biologists know exactly what they're thinking. 
i chose christianity not because it's the majority. i admit i was born into a christian family, but that had no true bearing on my decision to be a christian. as a matter of fact, i can say i left the faith during my first 2 years of college, when all the BME info SEEMED to contradict what i learned in church.  i did some reevaluation during my summer off, read through some other religions, and to be quite frank, christianity happened to just make sense for me. YES.. i said it made SENSE. i thought it out rationally. there's no reason for me to delve into that decision, but i did it from a very agnostic point of view.  i say agnostic because i posted earlier some very basic probabilities, and it honestly seems more probable to me that some deity caused our universe to form rather than an extensive chain of Heisenberg uncertainties. 
i believe in God and i believe in science. believing in one never has meant the rejection of the other. where would we be without darwin and his amazing hypotheses and theories, ESPECIALLY pertaining to the great evolutionary debate? he was a believer in God.  where would we be without CALCULUS.. or newtonian physics without sir isaac newton? he was a believer in god.  where would we be without the amazing astrological discoveries of galileo? he was a believer in god.  all three of these guys stirred up a lot of trouble within the church, and i blame HUMANS for it, not God.  humans can only interpret sacred text as well as the next sinner. and God's word is also... written by sinners. i'm not going to say that explains the contradictions because i think that's a whole other topic on its own, but i digress.  
the problem within the scientific and the religious community is that they think there's only one path to knowledge. i think science and religion happen to reveal very different truths. one describes physical truths and the other describes spiritual truths. aside from explaining certain facets in life, i don't think there really is much else that they have in common.
i'm not going to say "this is the spirit.. etc etc" but if you put a human in a vacuum with adequate oxygen flow before they die and weigh the vacuum, the room will weigh about 2 grams less after they die. science has been unable to explain it. just curious what people think about that phenomena. 

p.s. seeing how this topic has led in a certain direction, don't flame me for misspellings or misuse of words. i'm sure you understand the gist of the sentence. Tongue


Your response is interesting but ultimately you are still trying to justify the bible.  The bible is not the word of any god, and that is the truth.  Debating agnosticism vs atheism vs deism is a whole other debate, but the bible has little to no bearing on it.  As for your implication that the soul has some dicernable weight in the human body, that is beyond ridiculous.  The experiment you are referring to was done over a century ago, and is unproven. 

hm maybe i wrote in a way that suggested that i was justifying the bible. i'm pro religion and pro science. i just happened to pick christianity because it made sense to me. my roommate is athiest because he believes religion spoonfeeds you morals that can be concluded upon just by living life.  i agree.. "do not lie" "do not steal" etc etc go against human morale. i guess my justification in a deity is "where do these morals come from?" religion happens to give me comfort in some unknowns that go down a path science just will not touch. and it's not because science is fallible, it's just because religion deals with a different realm.. at least for me. 
also i acknowledge the bible is written by mortals. i understand contradictions are made everywhere. i also understand that science is nearly infallible. we rarely disprove theories and laws, but we build upon them every day.  yet i still have found a personal safeway in religion. both science and religion give me solace. that is all.
also thanks for clearing up that experiment.


I respect your view point as long as you don't believe the bible is the infallible word of god and that you are 100% right in your view point of religion and morality.  We're all human and we all want a map to show us the way through our journey of life.  The people I don't respect are the ones who think this map was handed to them by some "authority" in the form of this bible, and that because they have this map they now know better than every one else on the planet.   The bible is historical fiction that may or may not have some basis in reality, if you accept that and still choose to be christian then you have made reasonable choice based on thinking for yourself and you are choosing how you want to live your life.  If the bible contains the philosophy that inspires you and makes you comfortable with being a productive and helpful human being then so be it. 

mayhaps i am not to be 100% respected by you then. i do believe that the bible is the word of god. i acknowledge that it is written by humans, so it is not perfect, and i also believe that some of the history could have very easily been skewed by the humans in order to help calm its people at the given time. i also know for a fact that some versions of the bible have omitted verses, changed wordings to skew the reader towards a certain perspective, etc etc  the bible does not entitle me, however, to feel elitist over non christians. that is what i believe caused the downfall of the jews. i do believe in heaven and hell. i believe in god and the devil. the folklore that is in the bible, i believe. anyone can mock me for it. it really doesn't bother me because i still find solace in it (the bible). i'm not letting the bible live my life for me, but i use it for guidelines so i don't fall stray.  i believe in the bible and accept it's word, but i do not allow it to make decisions for me that i can make by myself.
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  Quote MadAnthony81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

I'm not "just throwing around a bunch of insults" at all. I genuinely believe that "to be a god-botherer is to be a seriously gullible/deluded/brainwashed whack-job" is a statement of FACT. If you consider this to be an insult, you evidently have doubts about your religion, and need to reassess your own conviction.
For me finding truth means I must be a complete Truth seeker.  I've searched for other Gods and even for a no God, but i had no answer other than nothingness.  But, when i searched for the Christian God I got an answer.  I was searching for ultimate truth.  With this sort of faith in finding truth that i could not see nor feel came understanding.    What also came along was love.  Ofcourse, in the first place I was willing to take the leap of faith in order to find a power greater than myslef, knowing that it was not me who created this universe and beyond.  Nor did i create the complexities of love and hate.  
 
I choose love, the greatsest love I can find.  That love I've found is the creator, Jesus Christ, God. 
 
It wasn't some guess that led me to believe this,  it was faith and understanding.  I believe choosing faith as a way to discover something can be a scientific method.  Since science is the the state of knowing, and I now know that Jesus christ is the man who he claims to be through faith in him and being a full blast Truth seeker. 
 
Galations 5:22   - 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
 
 
1 Tim 2:5   5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
 
 
 
 
whatchoo bringin to the table for God? Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends-Jesus
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  Quote pipecode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by MadAnthony81

Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

I'm not "just throwing around a bunch of insults" at all. I genuinely believe that "to be a god-botherer is to be a seriously gullible/deluded/brainwashed whack-job" is a statement of FACT. If you consider this to be an insult, you evidently have doubts about your religion, and need to reassess your own conviction.
For me finding truth means I must be a complete Truth seekerI've searched for other Gods and even for a no God, but i had no answer other than nothingness.  But, when i searched for the Christian God I got an answer.  I was searching for ultimate truth.  With this sort of faith in finding truth that i could not see nor feel came understanding.    What also came along was love.  Ofcourse, in the first place I was willing to take the leap of faith in order to find a power greater than myslef, knowing that it was not me who created this universe and beyond.  Nor did i create the complexities of love and hate.  
 
I choose love, the greatsest love I can find.  That love I've found is the creator, Jesus Christ, God. 
 
It wasn't some guess that led me to believe this,  it was faith and understanding.  I believe choosing faith as a way to discover something can be a scientific method.  Since science is the the state of knowing, and I now know that Jesus christ is the man who he claims to be through faith in him and being a full blast Truth seeker. 
 
Galations 5:22   - 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
 
 
1 Tim 2:5   5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
 
 
 
 


Woah, you found him?  I figured he would be better at hide and seek.
I'm here for the points and if you're reading this, it means I just got one more!
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  Quote MadAnthony81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by pipecode

Originally posted by MadAnthony81

Originally posted by athousandmonkeys

I'm not "just throwing around a bunch of insults" at all. I genuinely believe that "to be a god-botherer is to be a seriously gullible/deluded/brainwashed whack-job" is a statement of FACT. If you consider this to be an insult, you evidently have doubts about your religion, and need to reassess your own conviction.
For me finding truth means I must be a complete Truth seekerI've searched for other Gods and even for a no God, but i had no answer other than nothingness.  But, when i searched for the Christian God I got an answer.  I was searching for ultimate truth.  With this sort of faith in finding truth that i could not see nor feel came understanding.    What also came along was love.  Ofcourse, in the first place I was willing to take the leap of faith in order to find a power greater than myslef, knowing that it was not me who created this universe and beyond.  Nor did i create the complexities of love and hate.  
 
I choose love, the greatsest love I can find.  That love I've found is the creator, Jesus Christ, God. 
 
It wasn't some guess that led me to believe this,  it was faith and understanding.  I believe choosing faith as a way to discover something can be a scientific method.  Since science is the the state of knowing, and I now know that Jesus christ is the man who he claims to be through faith in him and being a full blast Truth seeker. 
 
Galations 5:22   - 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
 
 
1 Tim 2:5   5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
 
 
 
 


Woah, you found him?  I figured he would be better at hide and seek.
 
that was more than asinine,  it was hateful.  Great job, i'm sure every loving person is proud of you.  haw haw er, donkey
whatchoo bringin to the table for God? Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends-Jesus
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  Quote athousandmonkeys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by pipecode

Woah, you found him?  I figured he would be better at hide and seek.

I found him too! He was stuck in a crack in the sofa cushions.
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  Quote ty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 7:32pm
I'm reading a great book on all of this and  there is surprising evidence against Darwinism. It is I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist. A great read if you are open to information and not, as the author put it, "ornery." He even claims that materialism is self defeating because it is an idea... something that is clearly immaterial.

Also, Lee Strobel is another author who is great to read. He was an atheist who decided to investigate the the claims of Christianity and was overwhelmed by the evidence for its legitimacy. He's written The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, The Case for the Real Jesus, The Case for a Creator. 

If you don't want to read the "Case for" books, then Netflix the DVDs. They are about 45 - 60 minutes long.
Bring it hard or don't bring it at all.
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  Quote Shakazulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 7:46pm

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  Quote FumblesOBrian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 7:49pm
Why do all christians try to convert everybody? Its the only thing I want to know. Im a catholic and they talk crap about me and label me based on my religion. Why do they do that?
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  Quote BudAshes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by shakazulu




Unlimited power, and delicious.  Now that's a god I can get behind.
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  Quote ty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 8:03pm
Originally posted by FumblesOBrian

Why do all christians try to convert everybody? Its the only thing I want to know. Im a catholic and they talk crap about me and label me based on my religion. Why do they do that?

What others see as pushy or self-righteous, Christians view as loving. Would it be showing love to know that someone is destined to an eternity of torture for their rebellion against God and not try to convince them that there is an opportunity to be saved from that fate, or to let them go into it without any chance at salvation?

We all have rebelled and I simply want to give everybody the opportunity to be reconciled to God.

Not to mention, I have a hard time respecting people who claim faith in a proselytizing religion and don't proselytize.
Bring it hard or don't bring it at all.
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  Quote pipecode Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 8:04pm
Originally posted by ty

I'm reading a great book on all of this and  there is surprising evidence against Darwinism. It is I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist. A great read if you are open to information and not, as the author put it, "ornery." He even claims that materialism is self defeating because it is an idea... something that is clearly immaterial.

Also, Lee Strobel is another author who is great to read. He was an atheist who decided to investigate the the claims of Christianity and was overwhelmed by the evidence for its legitimacy. He's written The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, The Case for the Real Jesus, The Case for a Creator. 

If you don't want to read the "Case for" books, then Netflix the DVDs. They are about 45 - 60 minutes long.


If you really want to learn what you believe in, then I suggest "The Year of Living Biblically". http://www.ajjacobs.com/books/yolb.asp  Its about a guy that, well, spends a year living his life truly according to the bible, instead of pretending to do so as 99.9% of Christians claim to.  At least look at the site and read a little bit that is on there.  Might at least make you question if you truly live according to the bible.
I'm here for the points and if you're reading this, it means I just got one more!
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  Quote BudAshes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 8:23pm
Originally posted by ty

I'm reading a great book on all of this and  there is surprising evidence against Darwinism. It is I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist. A great read if you are open to information and not, as the author put it, "ornery." He even claims that materialism is self defeating because it is an idea... something that is clearly immaterial.

Also, Lee Strobel is another author who is great to read. He was an atheist who decided to investigate the the claims of Christianity and was overwhelmed by the evidence for its legitimacy. He's written The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, The Case for the Real Jesus, The Case for a Creator. 

If you don't want to read the "Case for" books, then Netflix the DVDs. They are about 45 - 60 minutes long.


Maybe he was an atheist that realized people would buy lots of his books if he pretended to become christian.
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  Quote ty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by pipecode

If you really want to learn what you believe in, then I suggest "The Year of Living Biblically". http://www.ajjacobs.com/books/yolb.asp  Its about a guy that, well, spends a year living his life truly according to the bible, instead of pretending to do so as 99.9% of Christians claim to.  At least look at the site and read a little bit that is on there.  Might at least make you question if you truly live according to the bible.

Great, thanks. I can look into that. I guarantee that I don't live 100% according to what the Bible teaches. What most people don't realize is that A) nobody besides Jesus has been able to live completely in agreement with the Law. B) We aren't tied to the Law through the new covenant made by Jesus Christ. We are not supposed to disregard the Law, but we aren't bound to it like the Israelites were.

Now we are saved by grace through faith and are meant to grow into spiritual maturity.
Bring it hard or don't bring it at all.
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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/27/2010 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by pipecode

If you really want to learn what you believe in, then I suggest "The Year of Living Biblically". http://www.ajjacobs.com/books/yolb.asp  Its about a guy that, well, spends a year living his life truly according to the bible, instead of pretending to do so as 99.9% of Christians claim to.  At least look at the site and read a little bit that is on there.  Might at least make you question if you truly live according to the bible.
Don't you think a better way to "learn what you believe in" is to go straight to the source of your beliefs?

Btw, I checked out your link, and from what I've read so far, it sounds interesting. Especially what he said he learned about stereotyping and making generalizations. Maybe you already understand this, but living "biblically" in the way he approached it is not what Jesus taught. From what I've read, he (AJ Jacobs) lived like an Old Testament Jew, not a New Testament Christian. Thanks for the link.
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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/28/2010 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by FumblesOBrian

Why do all christians try to convert everybody? Its the only thing I want to know. Im a catholic and they talk crap about me and label me based on my religion. Why do they do that?
Who is the "they" that has talked badly about you and labeled you? Christians? I think I misunderstood you when I first read your post.
Originally posted by BudAshes

Originally posted by ty

I'm reading a great book on all of this and  there is surprising evidence against Darwinism. It is I Don't Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist. A great read if you are open to information and not, as the author put it, "ornery." He even claims that materialism is self defeating because it is an idea... something that is clearly immaterial.
Also, Lee Strobel is another author who is great to read. He was an atheist who decided to investigate the the claims of Christianity and was overwhelmed by the evidence for its legitimacy. He's written The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, The Case for the Real Jesus, The Case for a Creator. 
If you don't want to read the "Case for" books, then Netflix the DVDs. They are about 45 - 60 minutes long.

Maybe he was an atheist that realized people would buy lots of his books if he pretended to become christian.
Then again, maybe not. Have you been to his website and heard what he has to say? "The Impact Of A Historical Jesus: What Is Our Response?" is a good place to start. There are a lot of good clips to watch.
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  Quote zakk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/29/2010 at 5:42am
SS.com will not solve this, the Crusades didn't solve this, creation of Israel made it worse, and I won't solve this.

I agree with many of you that my issue with religion is this "i'm right, you're wrong, let me SAVE you!"

Do your thing, harm none, enjoy life.  It being part of a religion does it for you, bless you.  But kindly leave me the shtook alone. 

-zakk

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  Quote Jogol Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/29/2010 at 6:00am
At least the crusaders tried to solve it...the same way the fundamentalist are trying to solve it now.
What I dislike is the fact that someone is posting stuff, that religion should exist and that you cannot disprove it...on the other hand you can't prove it and there are tons of different religions. I won't mind any religion as long as they aren't missionary. But that's not the case. I don't care about religion but as fast as a 'bad' leader comes along or a terrorist you already have a problem.
Some people need guidance, some people need none. Can't you keep it that way?

What I hate is the fact, that you have tons of hardcore Christians in USA and most of them are against the health-care and drive fat SUVs...that makes me sick.
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  Quote sgreen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/29/2010 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by zakk

SS.com will not solve this, the Crusades didn't solve this, creation of Israel made it worse, and I won't solve this.
Is this a riddle?Smile


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  Quote lookoutrider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/29/2010 at 8:10pm
yeah sounds confusing.
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