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Rhyme-Or-Reason View Drop Down
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  Quote Rhyme-Or-Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: So what's the consensus on teaching a newbie-
    Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 8:01am
I ask this question in regards to teaching friends or family new to snowboarding, what is the best way to teach someone how to snowboard? My first time ever snowboarding, my friends and I had to learn everything on our own. At the time, we didn't know anything about leafing or carving. It was just a matter of getting up and turning the board from heal side to toe side, eventually progressing to skidded turns by the end of the day. By the second day, we were all cruising down the mountain using skidded turns (not actual technical carving, we didn't know the difference at the time) with the occasional bust-yo-@$$ real bad moment. So in essence, we all picked it up by the 2nd day and were comfortable enough to navigate around a crowded mountain.
It wasn't until a couple of years ago that I saw my brother teach his friends new to snowboarding the "Leafing" method going down heel side. I thought it was a smart idea, but then I also saw that it took them a lot longer to pick up carving, especially going toe side. It seems that getting the board around to toe side and having your back down the mountain was a fear that many of them couldn't get over. It took them nearly 5-6 trips before they got the board around to toe side.

Now my question is, if you were teaching your friends or family, would you teach the leafing method or have them ride regular/goofy (whichever was most comfortable) and just go from heel to toe side to get carving down and endure the pain of fall after fall? I understand that Leafing keeps them upright more often, but also hinders them from getting the board around to toe side in fear of falling. What's the consensus?
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  Quote rzero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 8:03am
explain the basic mechanics and get them drunk.
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  Quote Rhyme-Or-Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 8:08am
hahaha..I knew there was something more to it than that..alcohol=liquid courage for everything..
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  Quote ABrad25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 8:19am
Just got to let them go on there own pace or they will just get pissed off the whole time 
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  Quote Spenser W. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 8:23am
I would never teach leafing on purpose.  the thing is, a lot of people just start doing it, and then you spend the entire time teaching them NOT to do it and to turn BOTH ways.  
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  Quote CoMtnRider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 8:24am
Never teach the falling leaf unless you think that will be their only time going up.  They will get too dependant on it and have that much harder a time learning how to really ride.  I forbid my stepson to do it for the first couple times and on his 3rd time up he started carving fairly controlled.  He told me he was really glad I didn't let him start out cheating as he can actually ride now.  That's my opinion at least.
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  Quote BdashRi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 8:26am
Teaching friends is a good way to loose friends in my opinion. Make them take a lesson. Prepare them to be frustrated and sore on their first day and hope they have fun.
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  Quote Rhyme-Or-Reason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 8:27am
Spencer: I agree with you..and now I'm spending all my time teaching my wife to stop leafing and just turn the board over! I regret that I taught her to board by leafing, and now she's stuck (as well as me, since I have to endure the "stay by her side while she's still on the bunny slopes leafing").
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  Quote Wingnutx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 8:29am
Originally posted by ABrad25

Just got to let them go on there own pace or they will just get pissed off the whole time 


ABrad25 is a 5 post whore...glad you got your points now gtfo
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  Quote lightning80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 8:41am
I have also realized that just starting tip down instead of leafing helps the 1st timer learn faster. But, they also will fall a lot more because they don't know how to brake and stop. I would pick a powder day with a board that needs to be waxed because that'll slow them down enough for them to get the hang of going tip down and not go so fast that they're out of control and fall. Falling leaf will be a piece of cake once they become confident with their tip-down riding and start to learn to brake.
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  Quote dwang0725 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 9:20am
The best way is to have them take a lesson.  After I took lessons out west, I came home and taught my son in the same exact manner (or what I could remember).  He learned to heel and toe-side turn in less than 3 trips to the mountain.  After 3 years, he can now ride better than me.
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  Quote lightning80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 9:27am
You should make this into a poll...
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  Quote Angry Midget Yo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 9:31am
It really depends on the person and their will to overcome themselves.  I was let go to learn on my own my first time and I didn't understand a damn thing and was frustrated with boarding because I couldn't brake since I didn't get the fundamentals of it so I didn't feel comfortable with pointing you board down and just going as a way to learn for me.  My 2nd time boarding after a long absence, my bro showed me the leafing technique and I picked it up fast and felt comfortable with the fundamentals, which boosted my confidence and I was carving toe side by the end of the day.      
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  Quote LittleShooey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 9:35am
Please, speaking from personal experience, keep them AWAY from Falling Leaf! It's taken me years to gain any confidence on my toes because falling leaf is such an easy out. I understand the mechanics of carving but will end up taking upper beginner lessons before the end of the season to get a professional eye out there with me. There is one plus side, I'm very comfortable riding goofy now. 

So teaching friends and family:
1. Take lessons. Seriously it's worth it
2. You can teach them the basics, but take the pain in the beginning with carving, falling leaf is a horrible habit. 
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  Quote joshscheese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 9:38am
So is the consensus to have newbies take lessons instead of teaching them?
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  Quote casanovaa0 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 9:44am
i normally just teach them to leaf using the "gas pedal" technique to get them going down one direction. Heal then Toe, then linking them together. No matter what though, if your friend isn't willing to take the pain that come with learning then it's not going to work. at that point it's lessons for them, soon after they'll probably quit
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  Quote ddomski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 9:45am
put them in a lesson if they're someone who will get angry with themselves when taught by a friend who can ride.
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  Quote EvoNAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 9:46am

just teach them how to brake and how to stand up

everything else seems to follow. They watch you and try to copy i guess
 
I wonder what its like if you took lessons?
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  Quote ustolemymarbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 9:52am
I guess you can teach them how to leaf if you want to leave them on the mountain and do yor own thing..haha. I wouldnt. I teach em how to stand/position their weight on the board and the effects on shifting wieght from one foot from another. That and braking..eventually they turn it into carving, after getting into the motion and falling
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  Quote azngolfur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 10:02am
Easiest way to learn in my book:

A couple shots of cuervo
Knee pads, wrist guards, butt pads, helmet

and just GO! no lessons or anything here, fastest way to learn something is by doing something
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  Quote CoMtnRider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 10:11am
Originally posted by ustolemymarbles

I guess you can teach them how to leaf if you want to leave them on the mountain and do yor own thing..haha. I wouldnt. I teach em how to stand/position their weight on the board and the effects on shifting wieght from one foot from another. That and braking..eventually they turn it into carving, after getting into the motion and falling
 
In my experience most people who learn falling leaf get good at it, which gives them even less incentive to learn how to carve.  I actually had a guy tell me on the bunny hill the other weekend (I was teaching my girl carving) that he has never ridden on his backfoot, he always rides on his toes.  Sure enough I watched him go down the hill but he was doing falling leaf but staying on his toe edge, very strange.
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  Quote LittleShooey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 10:17am
Originally posted by CoMtnRider

 
In my experience most people who learn falling leaf get good at it, which gives them even less incentive to learn how to carve.  I actually had a guy tell me on the bunny hill the other weekend (I was teaching my girl carving) that he has never ridden on his backfoot, he always rides on his toes.  Sure enough I watched him go down the hill but he was doing falling leaf but staying on his toe edge, very strange.

I have a friend who got back into boarding and did the same toeside falling leaf. She had gone as a young teenager and, before her lesson or learning how to stand or brake, her first attempt to stop on her heels she broke her wrist. Now this fear of falling backwards has kept her facing up the hill and on her toes 100%. I could never do that, but it would be interesting to use that as a technique to counteract heelside falling leaf.
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  Quote Angry Midget Yo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 10:32am
Originally posted by CoMtnRider

 
In my experience most people who learn falling leaf get good at it, which gives them even less incentive to learn how to carve.  I actually had a guy tell me on the bunny hill the other weekend (I was teaching my girl carving) that he has never ridden on his backfoot, he always rides on his toes.  Sure enough I watched him go down the hill but he was doing falling leaf but staying on his toe edge, very strange.


I actually saw a kid at Crystal Mountain doing toe side leaf, it was weird looking but he was owning it.  He said he does park so maybe he was practicing his goofy toe.
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  Quote ozmotion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 10:39am
Lessons are good, esp the ones that let you retake them repeatedly until you can get down the mountain. I still go down with my beginner friends for a run or two, but I gotta get my own riding in after that. I just call em up every couple hours to meet for beer so we can still chill. 
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  Quote dy3versity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2011 at 4:44pm
I taught my chick friend using the falling leaf method on both her heel and toe side. She got it down really quick because she naturally learned to transition from heel to toe on the falling leaf and then just bombed down the mountain after that.
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  Quote Marumm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/03/2011 at 12:50pm
I wouldn't teach.  Even a great rider isn't necessarily a good teacher; it's a completely different skillset.  I like the idea of private lessons, or small groups as opposed to a big clump of 10-15 people.  The large group lessons might be cheaper, but there's not much use in watching an instructor help someone with their bindings for two hours while you sit on your butt.
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  Quote koji3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/03/2011 at 12:57pm
Instrucor taught me to leaf as soon as i got the hold of heel and toe side Shortly after he taught me how to Carve.
I think that, once you have enough confidence to go down on each side, heel/toe, regular/goofy, it'll make carving easier beacuse you'll know how to keep an edge.
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  Quote jywu86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/03/2011 at 12:58pm
It really depends on the person.  Usually my firends that are girls ( i mean this in no disrespect ladies) wont' have as much fun if they are falling and hurting themselves all the time so I teach them to go toe-side first.  learning how to brake on toe-side because to most people, heel-siding is pretty natural and usually what people get stuck on when learning to snowboard.  Seems like friends that I've taught learn to put two and two together much quicker this way.  
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  Quote j31lo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/04/2011 at 12:55pm
I tried teaching my mate, after learning myself via the school of self knocks, but struggled to explain the basics. It boggled my mind that he struggled to stand up, let alone falling leaf it. It seems that what works for oneself doesn't necessarily apply to another- different levels of coordination and sense of balance is my guess.

Send them straight to an instructor. Trying to teach is just a pain and a waste of valuable boarding time (I don't live anywhere near snow)
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  Quote beunknown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/04/2011 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by joshscheese

So is the consensus to have newbies take lessons instead of teaching them?

Yes, get them to take lessons. That way there will be someone with them who doesn't want to just board and teach them how to get down the fastest way. When I was learning, my friends taught me to do the falling leaf. Why? Because if I tried to carve, I kept falling and it took forever. Just get them a lesson where someone will stick with them and make them learn to board. Once they have a lesson and know the basics, then you can try to help them improve.
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  Quote muddog257 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/04/2011 at 1:22pm
Teach them the basic's and the proper technique. Let them work at there own rate. Dont hammer them with citisizem and hard tricks up front. Just help them get better and they will get it eventully.
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  Quote BillyHoyle89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/08/2011 at 4:12pm
I was initially taught the falling leaf on my heel side. Got taught control and technique on the way down. Once I finished up the run we took the lift back up and did the exact same thing again, but facing up the mountain. That way after two runs you've basically got control on both heel and toe-side and can start to link them up.

By the end of my first day on the mountain I was linking turns and was comfortable braking on both sides, and was carving on my 2nd day. Seemed like a good way to do it...
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  Quote Wingnutx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/08/2011 at 4:19pm
A general rule of thumb is never teach someone you are sleeping with, or are planning to sleep with.  Best bet is to let them get a lesson or two or three and then sleep with them after the lesson.
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  Quote RoseBud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/08/2011 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by Wingnutx

A general rule of thumb is never teach someone you are sleeping with, or are planning to sleep with.  Best bet is to let them get a lesson or two or three and then sleep with them after the lesson.

lol You are so funny! And you are also correct! Unless you are extremely patient listen to Wise Wingnutx
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  Quote RideTimeless Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/08/2011 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Wingnutx

A general rule of thumb is never teach someone you are sleeping with, or are planning to sleep with.  Best bet is to let them get a lesson or two or three and then sleep with them after the lesson.


Best advice for this thread.
Did you google it?
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  Quote Piranha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/10/2011 at 5:50pm
just don't do it.  Tell them to use their edges and set up a meeting place at the end of the day...they'll either get it by then or they might not have what it take.  That's the way I learned...and it worked
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  Quote Peekaboo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/10/2011 at 6:09pm
First time i when was with a friend who wasnt a very good teacher, so I was forced to learn on my own. Its a very bad ideal to teach someone the falling leaf, once they got that down...the will be scared to try toeside (I know). How was learn was watching youtube video of the concept and technique. Then just go do it by trials and errors.
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  Quote clintoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/10/2011 at 6:13pm
the first time i went i took a lesson, which wasnt a bad idea at all or you can just listen carefully from your peeps.
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  Quote keltacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/10/2011 at 6:33pm
I suck at teaching, i just dont have the patience. I had the hardest time getting my girlfriend to go toe side. Finally I gave up and I got her a private 1 hour lesson. It worked! She was riding toe side by the end of the day. Another great thing is that lessons is like day care, you can go do you're own thing while they're learning the basics.
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  Quote nautika96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2011 at 6:51am
i taught my gf this season and it took her about 6 trips. 

i used the standard falling leaf method and just explained the dynamics of how you use your feet. i kind of explained like a car. your torso is the car's body, your legs are the suspension. use your knees to absorb the shock and turn while keeping your body square. i think her biggest obstacle is going faster. but she's doing good. it's about building confidence.. and protective gear. if your teaching someone and they get hurt they're less likely to want to try. definietly give them butt pads and a wrist guard when theyre first starting.
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  Quote geebet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2011 at 9:54am
i guess calling falling leaf a technique would also imply it is widely used.

just show them how to shift weight and then go onto j-turns, then switching edge.
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  Quote AJD13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2011 at 10:58am
I learned using the leaf technique and i took a lesson and i still find myself liking my heels more. but i have managed to learn to carve and am getting more comfortable definately should have learned down hill... would of helped me a lot
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  Quote AJD13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2011 at 10:58am
I learned using the leaf technique and i took a lesson and i still find myself liking my heels more. but i have managed to learn to carve and am getting more comfortable definately should have learned down hill... would of helped me a lot
It comes and it goes, get it while it lasts.
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  Quote AJD13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2011 at 11:00am
sorry about the double post my computer is wack... dont flag me please...
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  Quote Skoojoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2011 at 12:25am
Basic safety, athletic stance, static demos for tilt and pivot. Static J turns, dynamic j turns, the either skidded C turns or falling leaf depending on how their edging goes. Dynamic skidded C turns, then dynamic linked skidded C turns. Basically, get a trained instructor, DIY lessons for your friends is more likely to hurt than help.
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2zz View Drop Down
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  Quote 2zz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2011 at 1:07am
let em know they are gonna fall a lot ahead of time, teach em how to fall, where they look is where they're gonna go, shoulders parallel to the slope, and the 3 step program.... look and find a desirable spot, rotate the leading shoulder to point to the spot, and follow with the rest of the body. and teach edge control too. and make sure having fun is priority.    
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  Quote DazedDozer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/23/2011 at 5:06pm
I tried teach my gf and went with leafing first on heelside. Got that down quick but you're right, transferring to toe took forever and she's still hesitant to switch. But then again, I would still teach this way cause if I didn't I think she would have just quit from falling more often. I guess it depends who you're teaching and how much and how fast they want to learn.
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  Quote packfan4ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/23/2011 at 5:13pm
i was able to get my sister heel side turning on her own. but she couldnt get the idea of how to turn on her toes. i had to go down in front of her holding her hands to get her to finally turn on her toes. it took her the whole rest of the day to get used to turning on her toes and another whole day linking turns but i guss she just learns slow. as for this whole falling leef thing i never underestood what they were talking about i just coppied how my cousin rode and it worked fine for me
Either way teaching isnt fun unless your getting paid it takes time out of doing fun stuff and beginers dont listen to what you tell them
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  Quote Forgot10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2011 at 3:08pm
when i learned 2 years ago i took lessons first because i didnt have anyone to teach me.

the instructor sat me down on heel side first and just had me run a diagonal line on it across the face of the slope. then sat me down and made me role over to toe side and do a horizontal line the other way. did a few lines like that to feel how the board felt on each edge. then incorporated straightening out on heel, then on toe. As the lesson wore on it just turned naturally to carving, since that is how it is done.

i personally think leafing is a awful method. you cant really get to a higher level of skill continually doing that.

if you are teaching someone i think its best to use the same method as the instructor, and also try and give them pointers about body placement over the board and tell them the little things they are doing wrong to make it smoother carving.
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  Quote bayu_8888 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2011 at 3:58pm
My husband taught me to do the falling leaf just to get me down the run and got me used to being on the board. Then I took the class, and the instructor told me that was a bad way to learn. She taught me to be on my heel and toe and then started linking turns. After taking the class, I never do the falling leaf again.

The instructor told me to look and point at the direction I wanted to go. When I was on my heel side, she told me to pretend like I was sitting on the chair. When I was on my toe side, just pop out my stomach and be on my toes. I liked the way she taught me. If I ever get to teach somebody, I will use the same explanation she gave me.
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