2012 Cartels vs Force

I am looking to upgrade my 2007 Burton Mission bindings to something like the 2012 Cartels or maybe the Union Forces or Contact or recommend something else that you think is good. I ride mainly all mountain, steep groomers, some trees, some moguls, no park (hopefully this year??), Northeast Icy conditions prevail on many occassions. Does anyone have any comments specifically about the 2012 models? Burton claims this new re-flex technology while Union claims to have fixed the issues with the toe-strap. Thanks in advance for your comments.

You can't go wrong with the cartels. They're a 7 on the flex scale and many pros wear them. I have a pair of 09' cartels with co2 beds and I like them.

cartels and forces are pretty much mid stiff bindings.  but my opinion, i feel the cartels would be more aggressive geared towards all mountain shredding because of the forward lean built into their high backs. i dont think u can go wrong with either.

the one on sierra contact SLs is basically the same thing as the new one.

most of the toe strap issue lay within the users.  just sayin..

I have the same problem with the 07 Missions where the toe strap comes loose or rides up during my run. I'm looking to picking up some Union Forces. Lot of good reviews on them.

the highback is really very similar in terms of flex.  they are both stiff straight back and have some torsional flex but are not soft in that respect.  unions can achieve less forward lean by a hair but the "built in lean" on cartels is not what it once was.  and if you have the same forward lean set to each pair then in my experience they are both just as responsive.  the highback height is hardly different either.

yeah i don't know if i ever noticed the asym cartel highbacks, maybe if i ran a wider stance or something.

im not up to speed with unions 2012 line, did they make them more adjustable? thats something i am use to when it comes to burton bindings. and one of the reasons why i went with burton. i have 2011 reflex cartels. the minimal base plate make them really light, and the more natural flex that comes out of my attack banana vs my older CFX(2002?) bindings is pretty significant. it even mellowed out my 2003 jussi! these bindings have changed my life, im not kidding hah.

i have them adjusted with moderate fwd lean, but its easy to adjust on the fly w/ your boot off.

no issues w/ the toe cap, ankle strap is really comfy. i can ride hours w/o fatigue

if you can demo or try out a buddies pair, it will be worth your while.

cant forget the autocant feature. different density foams from lateral to medial foot. so it doesnt force your foot to be at a certain degree. your stance, weight, and needs adjust the cant needed. its a pretty crazy feature.

both the missions and the union forces are all-mountain right? are the forces kind of just an upgraded version of the missions?

and i always thought the cartels were more for park/freestyle ridin :o

the mission and cartel have the same base besides reflex now.  if anything the mission base is more solid now because it's not reflex.  that being said, for 2011 and previous models the base is the SAME.  solid piece 30% glass blend.  same exact base.

Originally posted by 2zz Contacts will be too soft for all-mtn.

hahah... probably..

cartels are dope.

I love my cartels and will most likely get another pair of cartels when these break. The flex is just perfect, lots of flexibility for shifting weight back and forth from nost to tail, and stiffness/control for edge to edge weight shifts. They are also very adjustable if you want to ride more park and have a more forgiving binding, or if you want more control for speed and bombing. Some people prefer not to have the gas pedals on the cartels, but they work great for me. Just individual preferences I guess.

ive only ridden burton bindings. ive never had a need or a want to change. i love my cartels

i love gigi and his riding style, but never noticed he uses contacts.

Originally posted by spenser Originally posted by snowmen Originally posted by SunFish The new 2012 CArtels have zero foreward lean now, unless you want to dial in some. The reflex base does give a smoother board feel than the regular disc base. Can you elaborate more on the benefits or not of the reflex base? This seems like it might be a key difference when compared to the Forces but does it add value to the binding or is just hype? it just lets the board bend under the binding more easily than with a solid base.  that doesn't mean you will feel it and it doesn't mean it's "better" either even if you do feel it.  as i've said before you can already see danny davis riding the new malavitas but with the old malavita base that is not reflex.... so we can probably assume he prefers the regular base over reflex... hence preference. i don't think the average rider would notice, honestly.

Thanks for the clarification spenser.. I think I'll just stick with my missions till they bust (knock on wood) :P

I Like Cartel