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Topic ClosedReverse Crew base drying out

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Corpion View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Reverse Crew base drying out
    Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 5:20pm
Does any of you have this problem? It seems that each time I ride after hot waxing it, the base, especially the edge would be really tried out. You can actually see the changes in color. I dont do falling leaf or anything like that. I would almost have to wax it each time i go now.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 5:42pm
It's from usage I would assume since you are riding on your edge.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 5:43pm
it's normal on the base edge's, i get the same thing,base on how hard you shred and condition of snow..more granular or crud will eat away the wax more in my opinion. Try cleaning your base more thoroughly and layer a good brand of wax that will absorb into the pores and check the coating by hand ..then scrape & scruff
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 5:44pm
^+1 icy conditions and stuff like that makes it dries out real quick. its just normal, dont think too much of it 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by bootleg

it's normal on the base edge's, i get the same thing,base on how hard you shred and condition of snow..more granular or crud will eat away the wax more in my opinion. Try cleaning your base more thoroughly and layer a good brand of wax that will absorb into the pores and check the coating by hand ..then scrape & scruff
there are no pores in base material.  it was a metaphor for base structure, which is what the wax adheres to, but nothing goes "in" the base.

most waxes are pretty much the same.  paraffin wax, possibly with additives like fluorocarbons or something.  if you wax it right, with the proper wax temp, and don't go too crazy when you scrape, it should all work fine.  edges will always dry out faster.

try using a colder (ie harder) wax on the edges.  more pressure goes in that area and unless you're riding fresh snow all the time, you're on your edges most of the time.  harder wax will hold up to that a bit better.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by spenser


there are no pores in base material.  it was a metaphor for base structure, which is what the wax adheres to, but nothing goes "in" the base.



care to expand on this a bit? It seems to go against everything scientific i know about how the way a sintered base is created. Or maybe I'm thinking too far down the molecular level. Have we had this conversation before? Gettin deja vu just typing it..
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 6:37pm


Wow this is hilarious.. I'm waxing a board right now and I'm freaking out cause the sides of the board are shot straight white even after waxing and scraping.. Worried about it cause its someone going to pay, but i might just tell them to cool it on there heel edge.

I use the hertel all temp wax but I guess that wax is no bueno for this season considering that there has been just about no real snow.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 6:56pm
are you scraping wax with a metal scraper?, cause you shouldn't be it's super hard on the base.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 7:01pm
Yeah I'm using a metal scraper I hate plastic! The problem wasn't happening before... Maybe I've just become so strong that I underestimate my scraping ability. I should cancel my gym membership Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by giftedhands

Originally posted by spenser


there are no pores in base material.  it was a metaphor for base structure, which is what the wax adheres to, but nothing goes "in" the base.



care to expand on this a bit? It seems to go against everything scientific i know about how the way a sintered base is created. Or maybe I'm thinking too far down the molecular level. Have we had this conversation before? Gettin deja vu just typing it..
the pellets are ground into a powder, and then that powder is "sintered" (basically meaning bonded using heat and pressure) into the base material.  pressed together and melted.  that's when they say it "leaves pores," but it doesn't. it melts together but it does leave more of a structure VS extruded bases.. extruded meaning the same way you make spaghetti noodles, by extruding it out of the machine into its shape.  extruded comes out smooth and doesn't have the structure that sintered bases have.

also, they say the head expands the "pores?"  but the heat required to "expand" the material big enough for a wax molecule to get through would be way too hot and it would probably have vaporized the base by then.

you can read about it here (go to "myths and fables" on the left, and then "base pores")


also

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 7:46pm
Hm. Pores. Structure. I feel like these are interchangeable terms at that molecular level.. or maybe not 'pores' in the way that we think of them on our skin, but the actual grooves by which wax can enter. Because from the pictures, it looks clear enough that wax can enter, or as you say, adhere, to the base. I guess they're not entering the base in a permeating manner and pushing past the surface, but holding within the structure that is already there. Ive seen a lot of basemakers and wax makers refer to this differently, honeycomb, pores, grooves..whatever, in the base.

It does raise a bunch of interesting questions though.. bc surely the same sintered base is faster once waxed, than not. Maybe this is going too deep into it, but we can scientifically measure surface tension, and we know that not all waxes are created equal, and that waxing reduces surface tension significantly. I know Hertel talks a lot about his process for how he creates his wax, and is rather proud of his micro-encapsulation process. (If you're interested, theres a free 30-page book on the Hertel website about the entire process..well worth a read.) Anyhow, i think that what you call structure, a lot of the board makers just simply refer to as pores, and that was the disconnect i was asking about.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 7:49pm
"the edge would be really tried out"

What does that even mean? I'm super confuzzled.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 7:53pm
This conversation is getting too deep lol. I ride pretty aggressively. Usually on hard ice out on south east. I just figured that the base would hold up for at least more than one session. Its drieds out like everytime.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 7:59pm
Hah sorry man.. didnt mean to threadjack ya. I assume tried out = dried out, from above..

Yah, I wouldn't expect your board to need a new wax after each day, but if you're riding on hard ice all day, i suppose it might be possible. Edges are typically the first area to show signs of needing a new wax job, anyhow. how often are you having to wax it now?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2012 at 8:07pm
well pores are pores, so it's not really a term that works when you're talking about structure.  it's not pores, it's structure.. two different things.  wax fills those little valleys in the structure but nothing goes inside anything.  real interesting though.  we've always been told there are pores that "open" and the wax goes "inside" the base but as that guy says on the site, it seems to have partly come from when bases were made of wood long ago and actually had pores, and it carried over as a metaphor of sorts for actual ptex bases.

i bought a bunch of hertel and it works as well as anything else i've had.  i haven't had a slow day yet and have ridden in all types of snow conditions.  the other day though, i was riding with my friend sam (probably the best rider in any of my media) and he's always the fastest if anyone is fastest.  i was making it further through the flats than he was though, which usually would never happen, and he waxes regularly.  could have been something random, but who knows.  at least it works as well as anything else.  we'll see how it does on a day when everyone else feels that it's sticky..

all this being said about different types of wax, structure after waxing is very overlooked.  finally got a brush this year and have been structuring.  all i can say is, again, i haven't had a slow day yet and on occasion have made it further in the flats than others who i am usually on par with, and some who are usually faster (with sam it's due to weight and his board i think.  camber is fast :)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 4:56am
Originally posted by Corpion

This conversation is getting too deep lol. I ride pretty aggressively. Usually on hard ice out on south east. I just figured that the base would hold up for at least more than one session. Its drieds out like everytime.

I also ride ice regularly (hell, almost exclusively) and can tell you with certainty that riding a day on ice will definitely eat all the wax from your base.  Honestly, my board will have the white marks along each edge after 1-2 runs, and then throughout the day they just extend further into the center.
Ice crystals are very abrasive and there's not much you can do about it.  

As a casual rider, it doesn't make much difference if you wax every day or once every 5 times you ride.  A freshly waxed board feels much nicer of course, but given that it only lasts a short time it's not worth the effort/expense of waxing every time you head out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 5:31am
ASM you should use a plastic scraper the metal ones are hard on base structure, like they take it off. I know they're way easier to use but since you're charging people for your work you should do it right. I know it gets tempting to use them, I get pretty tempted when the ski's and boards to be waxed start to pile 10+ deep in the the shop. Just sharpen you plastic scraper it makes a huge difference.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 9:34am
Do you guys think using a base cleaner is really necessary..like before waxing?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 9:42am
I've been noticing my park boards have a really hard time holding wax.  I can give it a fresh wax, with cold temp wax, and on cold days it'll be gone within a run or two.  It's only allong the edges of the base though. 
 
Any one know if a base grind would improve wax absortion?  I only have this problem on my park boards.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 10:07am
Originally posted by not-ewrx


Any one know if a base grind would improve wax absortion?  I only have this problem on my park boards.

I took my Burton Love in for a base grind after riding it for a few years.  I thought it would give it some extra life.  It dried out SO fast after that!!  Ridiculously fast- we're talking after 1 day.  I was pretty disappointed in the process, and probably will never do it again.  I don't know if it took enough of the scratches out to do much good.

Live and learn I guess.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 12:06pm
I'm assuming is your metal scraper.
Switch to a plastic scraper and report back please.
If it doesn't work, try a colder temp wax around the base edge.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by mluu003

Do you guys think using a base cleaner is really necessary..like before waxing?

No, just wipe it down clean.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 12:53pm
if you have to use base cleaner do it at the end of the season. if you wax regularly, you probably wont need it in the first place.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by spenser

well pores are pores, so it's not really a term that works when you're talking about structure.  it's not pores, it's structure.. two different things.  wax fills those little valleys in the structure but nothing goes inside anything.  real interesting though.  we've always been told there are pores that "open" and the wax goes "inside" the base but as that guy says on the site, it seems to have partly come from when bases were made of wood long ago and actually had pores, and it carried over as a metaphor of sorts for actual ptex bases.

i bought a bunch of hertel and it works as well as anything else i've had.  i haven't had a slow day yet and have ridden in all types of snow conditions.  the other day though, i was riding with my friend sam (probably the best rider in any of my media) and he's always the fastest if anyone is fastest.  i was making it further through the flats than he was though, which usually would never happen, and he waxes regularly.  could have been something random, but who knows.  at least it works as well as anything else.  we'll see how it does on a day when everyone else feels that it's sticky..

all this being said about different types of wax, structure after waxing is very overlooked.  finally got a brush this year and have been structuring.  all i can say is, again, i haven't had a slow day yet and on occasion have made it further in the flats than others who i am usually on par with, and some who are usually faster (with sam it's due to weight and his board i think.  camber is fast :)

To help the explanation here are some other microscopic images of base material:

started by flossers making floss for flossers
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2012 at 1:11pm
i don't have this issue, but mine sat around for many months b4 i finally got to use for the first time this season...no issues so far
be talkin to ya
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