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Peace out Foursquare, Forum, Special Blend, Gravis

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ecumike View Drop Down
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  Quote ecumike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Peace out Foursquare, Forum, Special Blend, Gravis
    Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 11:42am
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  Quote | | | bryman | | | Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 11:45am
Yeah sorry to see more people losing their jobs after cuts by the big B.  (On a personal note: pretty sad to see that Gravis is becoming an Asian-country specific brand -- I knew I was ahead of my time getting cheap shoes on this website). 
 
-b
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  Quote robsta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 11:56am
I'm confused does this mean that there will be no more Forum, Foursquare, and Special Blend?  Or does this just mean that Burton no longer owns them?  
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  Quote Alkasquawlik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 11:57am
Originally posted by robsta

I'm confused does this mean that there will be no more Forum, Foursquare, and Special Blend?  Or does this just mean that Burton no longer owns them?  

They are done.
End of an era.
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  Quote letourneau41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 11:57am
That sucks. Not a huge Burton supporter but I've always like Forum boards as well as their riders. Just went to the Forum movie premiere on Thursday, it was a very short movie compared to their past movies. I wonder if funding was cut short on it.
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  Quote julius77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 12:00pm

This sucks. Maybe it was needed, but I like my foursquare gear and special blend gear. I don't want to see those companies turn Burton. I'm guessing Forum boards are done. I also feel horrible for the employees that will be losing their jobs over this business decision. They have to go home and tell their families. On a completely selfish note, I hope Burton will cover warranties for consolidated companies. I'm sure they will, they seem great when it comes to customer service.

*thanks for posting this ecumike!
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  Quote JDiggidy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 12:04pm
From the Linked Article:
In saying this has been a long time coming, give me a background of the discussions around these changes and where you’re looking at taking things for Burton? It’s a combination of the success that we’ve had with the Burton brand and also in new categories on a year-round basis. The apparel thing is going very well and our bag and pack business continues to surprise us with how real it is. We came to the realization that those are the areas where we should be investing and it’s where the brightest future is for us and our retailers.

With focusing more of your efforts on the Burton brand, where do you see reinvesting on that side? We can focus more money on the marketing side of our year-round business—the apparel, bags, and pack stuff. We can invest in product development and R&D facilities much like we built Craig’s for the board thing—we want to add in to Craig’s the capability to make prototype bags—same day like we do with boards, and take things in that direction. Having those other brands that were not making money—it wasn’t like I was all stressed solely about having to make money—but in the longer term it was money that could have been spent in other areas.

What?? You want to make a research facility for BAGS?? WTF?  Bags and clothing.  That's where it's at.  Spend $5 on a t-shirt, sell it for $24.99 and make a profit.  Sell a bag that was "prototyped in 24 hours!" and umm... profit I guess.  Better yet, sell profitable Burton merch year round to make even more money.  But "invest" in... well... bags and t-shirts.
 
Still very bummed about this.
 
/ full disclosre: I wear Burton boots, pants, coats, mitts, and a RED helmet.  My rockboard is my old Burton Love, and I retired a pair of SB pants this year. 
// Not a B hater, just sad to see they couldn't make it work.
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  Quote Alkasquawlik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by JDiggidy

From the Linked Article:
In saying this has been a long time coming, give me a background of the discussions around these changes and where you’re looking at taking things for Burton? It’s a combination of the success that we’ve had with the Burton brand and also in new categories on a year-round basis. The apparel thing is going very well and our bag and pack business continues to surprise us with how real it is. We came to the realization that those are the areas where we should be investing and it’s where the brightest future is for us and our retailers.

With focusing more of your efforts on the Burton brand, where do you see reinvesting on that side? We can focus more money on the marketing side of our year-round business—the apparel, bags, and pack stuff. We can invest in product development and R&D facilities much like we built Craig’s for the board thing—we want to add in to Craig’s the capability to make prototype bags—same day like we do with boards, and take things in that direction. Having those other brands that were not making money—it wasn’t like I was all stressed solely about having to make money—but in the longer term it was money that could have been spent in other areas.

What?? You want to make a research facility for BAGS?? WTF?  Bags and clothing.  That's where it's at.  Spend $5 on a t-shirt, sell it for $24.99 and make a profit.  Sell a bag that was "prototyped in 24 hours!" and umm... profit I guess.  Better yet, sell profitable Burton merch year round to make even more money.  But "invest" in... well... bags and t-shirts.
 
Still very bummed about this.
 
/ full disclosre: I wear Burton boots, pants, coats, mitts, and a RED helmet.  My rockboard is my old Burton Love, and I retired a pair of SB pants this year. 
// Not a B hater, just sad to see they couldn't make it work.

Craig's is already up and running, Burton just wants to add facilities in there to run bags. I don't really see what the issue is, it's not like Burton cut The Program solely to make bags lol.

And any shop employee will tell you that shops make their money off of t-shirts and sweatshirts, we barely make money on the sales of hardgoods.

Anyway, it's a bummer, but Burton is a private company, so they can do whatever the shtook they want. And remember, if it wasn't for Burton, Forum/Special Blend/4Square would've all been dead already a few years back.
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  Quote VTBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 12:21pm
Damn I really liked Forum's gear. I still have my board bag from them. Didn't try Gravis much but saw that they were really cheap. I guess they are keeping the other brands.
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  Quote Skio25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 12:22pm
No forum? F... that.
Favorite boards, I guess i gotta pick another one up before they're gone.
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  Quote diviesti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 1:02pm
My fingers are still crossed that someone(Peter Line) or another company buys them short of a ski company. 
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  Quote | | | bryman | | | Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 1:09pm
^^^ Does Peter Line have some kind of scratch?  P.S.  I love his column in snowboarder, real talk.  #teampeterline
 
-b
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  Quote diviesti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by | | | bryman | | |

^^^ Does Peter Line have some kind of scratch?  P.S.  I love his column in snowboarder, real talk.  #teampeterline
 
-b

I'm sure his heart and soul are in those companies. Probably doesn't have the monies by himself, but he could probably find investors in the snowboard community. They may never be as big as they were/are but they would be alive on to see another day. 
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  Quote dking Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 2:08pm

Bummed to hear this... fewer choices for us. Disapprove

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  Quote koji3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 2:08pm
No more 'first chair, last call'?

Wonder what they will do with team riders? Just dropped and picked up some other place?
If only Queensland had snow...
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  Quote motoxninja80 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 2:26pm
Man that sucks. I loved the boards forum made, and all the special blend snow gear was so siick
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  Quote humblerooster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 2:32pm
I love those companies. I own FourSquare pants and there are the best pants I even had on the mountain. I guess I dont ever have to worry about running into someone owning the same pants as me.

Sad day.
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  Quote scuddera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 3:02pm
Straight jaw dropper right there. I was just looking to buy a forum board. I am interested to know if this has something to do with that lawsuit they were involved in

sad day forsure
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  Quote gunda pickle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 3:16pm
What lawsuit?
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  Quote kirium81 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by | | | bryman | | |

Yeah sorry to see more people losing their jobs after cuts by the big B.  (On a personal note: pretty sad to see that Gravis is becoming an Asian-country specific brand -- I knew I was ahead of my time getting cheap shoes on this website). 
 
-b

LOL! Me and my friends still talk about those $5 sales. Because of that sale, i have backpacks for every activity/hobby/event imaginable... not to mention backpacks to stuff the extra backpacks I don't use. 
Its not fun unless its sketchy
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  Quote gunda pickle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 5:26pm
Jake looks like a cat that just ate a mouse in that picture.
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  Quote thisisjoebro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 6:18pm
I find it very interesting they are done with forum. Maybe the sales weren't astounding. But it was a solid brand. More so than many board brands right now. 

Didn't know Burton owned Forum.
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  Quote humdingaling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by diviesti

My fingers are still crossed that someone(Peter Line) or another company buys them short of a ski company. 

Doesnt sound like that would be happening

As far as The Program brands, the release says your transitioning out of them. What does that mean? Are you planning on selling them or are you putting those to bed?

We’ll probably, to use your words, put them to bed. I don’t see us selling them. I think we will retain the trademarks should anything ever develop in the future, but it’s part and parcel of the philosophy of looking at what we do best. We have looked at opportunities to target those brands towards specific opportunities that might exist in the marketplace at different levels of distribution or price points and it seems like the message we get from people is “we want Burton.” So we’ve got to be responsive to that.


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  Quote jacquet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 8:42pm
The industry is on a fast track to become in oligopoly with burton as the major player. I am hard pressed to find any one who can compete with burton quality/price ratio and their ability to stomp out other brands, like we see with forum and the others.

Boarders have to start thinking smaller, think Thrive boards or WonSnow, entities that are ran by people not strategies and law

Sad to Forum go, I was always a fan of Devun Walsh
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  Quote BunnySloper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 10:12pm
At least now I can say that I own a piece of history...
 
The only Forum product I own is their 2011 Forum Shaka with the hinged baseplate. Very comfy bindings, more so than my 2011 Cartels. Although, I think I ride more aggressive with the Cartels because of the forward leaning highbacks.
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  Quote robsta Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/23/2012 at 11:12pm
Originally posted by koji3

No more 'first chair, last call'?

Wonder what they will do with team riders? Just dropped and picked up some other place?

Stevie Bell, Peter Line, and Cam Pierce all posted on their FB pages about being dropped.  So yeah the team riders lost their jobs..
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  Quote woodhomie1996 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 3:52am


tell your friends
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  Quote chillman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 3:58am
Terrible. I can see the other brands going but Forum!? Come on.
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  Quote chillman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 4:02am
What is The Program the article spoke of? Not familiar with that or Channel Islands. Also so they are making red only available to the pros? Don't see the point of that.
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  Quote chillman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 4:08am
Originally posted by jacquet

The industry is on a fast track to become in oligopoly with burton as the major player. I am hard pressed to find any one who can compete with burton quality/price ratio and their ability to stomp out other brands, like we see with forum and the others.

Boarders have to start thinking smaller, think Thrive boards or WonSnow, entities that are ran by people not strategies and law

Sad to Forum go, I was always a fan of Devun Walsh
I 100% disagree. Capita and Burton will soon be the two biggest if they aren't already. I can see Capita overunning Burton as Burton's prices are steep for what you're getting compared to Capita.
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  Quote woodhomie1996 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 4:16am
@chillman, The Program is the umbrella that Forum, Foursquare and Special Blend are under and Channel Islands is a surf board company

I agree with chillman with Capita being one of Burton's biggest competitors. A few years ago I would have said Rome but I guess that changed quickly.

Capita did an awesome job marketing themselves and now they have a GREAT team!
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  Quote diviesti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 4:46am
found this on EL


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  Quote JDiggidy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 6:17am
It's a thin line.  A bloated industry with too many players so that the companies involved are just trying to fight out a sliver of market share... Or, a "one size fits all" industry with only a few players.
 
Unfortunately, there already is only a few people at the very top, but with the demise of the Program brands, a few more choices will leave the picture.  I think this is yet another side effect of the internet shopping culture that we have now.  I want 10,000 choices for, say, a new coat, and I want them all dirt cheap. 
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  Quote Von44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 6:26am
That sucks to hear about those brands going down. I guess this means my Foursquare and Forum gear would be classified as vintage.
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  Quote zakk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 6:50am
i don't really see this as a huge deal, most of the stuff was rebadged Burton gear.  they are streamlining the name to become a bigger power house, especially with UnderArmour and Nike strolling into the softgoods side.  

I see this as a regroup and rearm ahead of a uncertain future with more and more 800-pound gorillas walking around.  It sucks for the team riders and a few fringe elements, but in reality means very little for the mothership, Big B.  
-zakk

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  Quote letourneau41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 7:21am
I wonder who's going to pick up Pat Moore. He's part in the new # Forum video is pretty sick. I could see him heading over to Lib Tech, he's seems to ride with those guys a lot anyway.
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  Quote andrethegiant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 7:58am
dam, no matter how much i dislike burton, you still have to feel bad for all those who had jobs with Special Blend, Forum, etc. It's never good to see any snowboard business fail. Goodluck Jake.
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  Quote MathiasM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 8:44am
Wow... this is insane.. kinda saw some of it coming but damn not for them to just be shutdown.
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  Quote Blur510 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 9:27am
Wow that sucks, this means less choices for us, even though they are all burton brands, but a company has to do what it has to do to stay profitable.
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 9:48am
Originally posted by dking

Bummed to hear this... fewer choices for us. Disapprove

so many new companies have been starting each year, so this is just not true at all.  if anything it's a good thing to thin out the brands.  there are way too many.  too much everything, really.
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 9:57am
Originally posted by zakk

i don't really see this as a huge deal, most of the stuff was rebadged Burton gear.
forum was their own company when it came to making products.  sometimes they borrowed tech from burton and sometimes things started at forum and burton borrowed it (like reflex for example). their designs and implemented technologies were their own, but yes they were under the same tent as burton, buddy buddy working together.

Originally posted by jacquet

The industry is on a fast track to become in oligopoly with burton as the major player. I am hard pressed to find any one who can compete with burton quality/price ratio and their ability to stomp out other brands, like we see with forum and the others. 

there are so many brands out there, and so many strong medium and small sized ones, that this will just not happen unless they start falling out.  burton is not number one in sales for a pretty large amount of shops (union vs burton bindings for example).  as far as burton's pricing... that's a first.  usually everyone complains that they're overpriced.  the reality either way is that they are more or less on par with every other company out there, and if anything there are a good amount of other companies offering great products for less, comparatively, in many cases.  but if you compare similar products (in terms of technology used) the pricing is almost the same.  point being, they are neither overpriced nor cheaper than competitors.  there is really not much variance in price when you look at the actual tech between companies' products.. or, at least not as much as you would think.
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  Quote giftedhands Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 10:02am
Why would less choices and competition be a good thing for consumers. 
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  Quote julius77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 10:04am
Spencer makes great points as always, but I'm still pissed I never got to have a destroyer doubledog. I've ridden one, it's friggin sweet, and I'll prob never have one. And No, I can't buy one now because my wife won't let me get another board. And yes, she wears the pants with our money because I'm fiscally irresponsible.
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  Quote BoxStomper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 10:08am
well. looks like im going to have to run out and get a new Forum and just put it in my closet as a piece of history. Super bummed about their outwear going... I love my foursquare stuff.
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 10:20am
Originally posted by giftedhands

Why would less choices and competition be a good thing for consumers. 
there's a point where the market becomes flooded with too many individual brands.  competition and choices are great, but with every pro starting their own company these days, it's just making things harder overall.  i'm not talking about the consumer's perspective, but shops and the business side of the industry.

there are far more than enough brands to provide every choice a customer could possibly want.  the industry needs to slow down.  it can only support so many individuals.  same goes for how many pro/am riders there are.. every kid is good at riding park these days.  how many need to be sponsored?  how many can the industry handle supporting?  it's just my opinion i guess, but it's gotten pretty excessive.
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 10:41am
I feel sorry for all those who lost their jobs because of this decision. I forgot how wide the Burton brand scope was. I guess they realized people don't know either and thus why they're doing this to make the BURTON brand stand out even more.

I wonder why they're handing on to Anon though. Maybe the surveys determined too high existing brand loyalty.
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  Quote humblerooster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 10:42am
Originally posted by spenser


Originally posted by giftedhands

Why would less choices and competition be a good thing for consumers. 

there's a point where the market becomes flooded with too many individual brands.  competition and choices are great, but with every pro starting their own company these days, it's just making things harder overall.  i'm not talking about the consumer's perspective, but shops and the business side of the industry.
there are far more than enough brands to provide every choice a customer could possibly want.  the industry needs to slow down.  it can only support so many individuals.  same goes for how many pro/am riders there are.. every kid is good at riding park these days.  how many need to be sponsored?  how many can the industry handle supporting?  it's just my opinion i guess, but it's gotten pretty excessive.


Thats a great point, once the market gets too flooded with competition, it isn't really worth scrapping along with little companies. Survival of the Fittest. I know Im bummed though.
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  Quote MathiasM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 11:17am
Sooner or later itll just be Burton and K2.. it seems like every brand is under one of those umbrellas.
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  Quote woodhomie1996 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 11:49am
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  Quote letourneau41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/24/2012 at 11:49am
Originally posted by MathiasM

Sooner or later itll just be Burton and K2.. it seems like every brand is under one of those umbrellas.


I don't see Lib Tech or Capita going anywhere for awhile. Both brands seem to be doing quite well.
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