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UNION FORCE vs CARTELS

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spadeswyld View Drop Down
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  Quote spadeswyld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: UNION FORCE vs CARTELS
    Posted: Nov/16/2012 at 9:21am
Hello All,
I just ordered the NS Proto CT and may buy new bindings for it. Currently I use the Union Contact('09 model), which have been pretty good.
 
Im thinking of maybe getting a new set of Freestyle/Freeride bindings. I will be hitting some kickers and boxes.
 
I was thinking of getting the -
Union Force SL

or

Burton Cartels
 
OPINIONS?
 
Thanks
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  Quote Timmay_650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2012 at 10:03am
Both are great binding and will ride about the same. Some people like the Unions better and some like the cartels. You will only know if you ride them both but my bet is you would be happy with either pair. I would say get the pair you like better or you can get cheaper.
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  Quote spadeswyld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2012 at 10:07am
I can get some 2010's in good shape for about 45 bucks.... hard to beat that... but I think I may go all out for a new set. Im leaning towards the Cartels..
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2012 at 10:19am
That's my next decision as well, everyone keeps telling me it's always between the Force and the Cartel, both very popular on the hill.  I'd probably go with the better price between the two (or the better deal/savings from regular price).  

Things I've heard though, the Union Force toe cap on older models left a bit to be desired.  I absolutely love the toe cap on my Burton C60 which appears to be the same as the Cartel.
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  Quote sixpoint Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2012 at 11:12am
How do u like the flex and feel of your contact?  I personally wasnt stoked for the force or cartel due to rigidity.  I prefer a more mello flex like the mission or contact. Just my 2 cents
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  Quote MTpow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2012 at 11:19am
force = cartel just a different company... 
MOAR powderz plz!
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  Quote zakk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2012 at 11:22am
cartels have a gas pedal the some people, including me, hate.  Unions are decent, I prefer Rome.  
-zakk

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  Quote spadeswyld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2012 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by sixpoint

How do u like the flex and feel of your contact?  I personally wasnt stoked for the force or cartel due to rigidity.  I prefer a more mello flex like the mission or contact. Just my 2 cents
 
I really like the flex on my contact. If you think the force was too stiff, then definately go with the Contact. I never tried Missions.
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2012 at 2:43pm
if you like the contact but want to try something a bit more responsive without being quite as firm as the force, try the contact pro.
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/17/2012 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by zakk

cartels have a gas pedal the some people, including me, hate.  Unions are decent, I prefer Rome.  
Unions are decent?
What binder in the rome line would you suggest..sorry jacking the thread.

Also recommend you check the flex you like or don't like or what you want like more response or not.
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/17/2012 at 7:27pm
rome's most similar binding is going to be the targa.  the 390 is sometimes compared but the highback is softer and that makes a difference.  not sure on the overall rigidity of the 390 base cause i didn't ride them too much, but i guess if you use no forward lean, your base is the main source of response, in which case i'm sure 390s would do just fine if you're looking for a force-like binding.  i'd still say targas though.
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by spenser

rome's most similar binding is going to be the targa.  the 390 is sometimes compared but the highback is softer and that makes a difference.  not sure on the overall rigidity of the 390 base cause i didn't ride them too much, but i guess if you use no forward lean, your base is the main source of response, in which case i'm sure 390s would do just fine if you're looking for a force-like binding.  i'd still say targas though.
Thanks for the response Spenser
but looking at the pricing for the Romes.. doesn't make sense to get a Force like binding for $30 more 390 or $70 more Targa over the $199 Force bindings when you can just buy the force.
Only ones in the Rome line that comes close in terms of pricing is the Arsenal and MOB Boss (that said dunno what they would compare with.
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 4:09pm
price is reflective of technology, not performance.  you can get bindings that flex like the force for significantly less or significantly more.  if you want a force-like binding at the price of the force, you're looking at.. well, the force.. haha.
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  Quote BunnySloper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 4:37pm
One thing I do hate about the Union that I don't have a problem with on the Cartel is difficulties releasing the toe strap.
In Pacific NW for part of the 2012/2013 Season.
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  Quote inutil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 4:43pm
hahahaaha, my front binding does that. Jesus its annoying. Then again theyre pretty old now and have a fair few days on them. But yeah, that toe strap ratchet can be a bitch to unclip. Fortunately, im rather happy with the bindings in general.
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  Quote BunnySloper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by inutil

hahahaaha, my front binding does that. Jesus its annoying. Then again theyre pretty old now and have a fair few days on them. But yeah, that toe strap ratchet can be a bitch to unclip. Fortunately, im rather happy with the bindings in general.
 
My Union Force are brand new, this year's model. Overall, I'm happy with them...good flex and comfy, only thing that I'm not happy about is the toe strap release.
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  Quote Piranha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 5:36pm
thinking about getting some union SL, but I'm wearing 10.5 boots and don't know what size binding to get?  (I'm riding medium cartels right now, if that helps)
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 5:44pm
most 10.5s are better in L/XL unions.  which boot?
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  Quote Blur510 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 6:23pm
I have both models, and cartels no doubt. they are more reliable, set it once and it good, My unions needs tightening of the screws from time to time
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  Quote Piranha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by spenser

most 10.5s are better in L/XL unions.  which boot?
salomon F20
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/10/2012 at 6:43pm
damn.. not sure on that one.  those low profile salomons are pretty small.  i would venture to guess M/L in that case, but i really can't say for sure on that one.
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  Quote julius77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/11/2012 at 7:56am
Originally posted by Blur510

I have both models, and cartels no doubt. they are more reliable, set it once and it good, My unions needs tightening of the screws from time to time
My cartels need tightening every few weeks on the straps, but I've had them since 08, I think.
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  Quote Blur510 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/11/2012 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by julius77

Originally posted by Blur510

I have both models, and cartels no doubt. they are more reliable, set it once and it good, My unions needs tightening of the screws from time to time
My cartels need tightening every few weeks on the straps, but I've had them since 08, I think.

I think the cartels straps holders are better designed since the strap is sandwiched between 2 pieces of plastic incorporated with the base.  I can tighten the screw a lot more than I would on the unions.  The union binding's strap looses it's movement/motion when it's too tight.
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/11/2012 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by BunnySloper

Originally posted by inutil

hahahaaha, my front binding does that. Jesus its annoying. Then again theyre pretty old now and have a fair few days on them. But yeah, that toe strap ratchet can be a bitch to unclip. Fortunately, im rather happy with the bindings in general.
 
My Union Force are brand new, this year's model. Overall, I'm happy with them...good flex and comfy, only thing that I'm not happy about is the toe strap release.
Exactly the concern I had with Unions, the stinkin' toe strap, some say it breaks in...
but sounds like a design flaw that Union has
Great responses to the thread very helpful in what I was concerned about.

The cartel's have a good toe strap, don't know how it fairs with the newer supposedly improved ones from the older Union.
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  Quote dpboarder98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/11/2012 at 1:22pm
When I first got my forces (used) the toe ratchet seemed sticky, but when Im snowboarding especially with my gloves on I dont really notice it. I sorta naturally put force into it when I undo them. Unless you are trying to notice them being sticky then they aren't that bad.
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/12/2012 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by dpboarder98

When I first got my forces (used) the toe ratchet seemed sticky, but when Im snowboarding especially with my gloves on I dont really notice it. I sorta naturally put force into it when I undo them. Unless you are trying to notice them being sticky then they aren't that bad.
That's good to know thanks, DP!
I'll see what I can get my hands on when the time comes to pick up a pair. Instead of forces i'm actually starting to thinking of going something a little softer in flex. contacts perhaps. or the cartels.
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  Quote spadeswyld Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/13/2012 at 8:24am
Originally posted by spadeswyld

Originally posted by sixpoint

How do u like the flex and feel of your contact?  I personally wasnt stoked for the force or cartel due to rigidity.  I prefer a more mello flex like the mission or contact. Just my 2 cents
 
I really like the flex on my contact. If you think the force was too stiff, then definately go with the Contact. I never tried Missions.
 
What do you mean "gas pedal"?
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  Quote julius77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/14/2012 at 8:47am
I recently got Force SL bindings and find the ankle strap to be more comfortable than my cartels. I don't have the cartels with the asymmetrical strap, as in the pic, so I don't know how those feel. I like the ratchets on my cartels better, but union buckles aren't as bad as people make them out to be. Just hit them hard and they pop right off.
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  Quote Snurf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/26/2012 at 5:28am
I just got some Restricted Cartels and can say the ankle strap is extremely comfortable. But then again, what do I know since I'm coming from seven year old Forces.

What I do know is that I really like the adjustable heelcup from Union.
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  Quote Dice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/26/2012 at 6:03am
I have Force SL and Burton P1.1.
I like the P1's better. More comfortable for me riding all day.
Also Release is "smoother & faster" let's just say coming off a run straight into the lift lineup-up!Big smile
And I love the forward lean on the burton bindings for my heel side turns. More natural and I don't have to put a big effort. 
I'm looking to buy a pair of Cartels OR SuperSport (to try).
Cheers...
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/26/2012 at 7:03am
Originally posted by Dice

I have Force SL and Burton P1.1.
I like the P1's better. More comfortable for me riding all day.
Also Release is "smoother & faster" let's just say coming off a run straight into the lift lineup-up!Big smile
And I love the forward lean on the burton bindings for my heel side turns. More natural and I don't have to put a big effort. 
I'm looking to buy a pair of Cartels OR SuperSport (to try).
Cheers...

That's really interesting to read that you like the P1.1's more... can you elaborate a little more on why?  Do you find the P1.1's to be softer in flex than the SL?  Do either of them have canting?  Also, which would you say is better for all mtn riding?  Would you take both those bindings into the park?  Thanks in advance!  I'm looking to pair either of them with the Thrive Renegade I recently purchased.
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  Quote snowcker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/26/2012 at 1:14pm
Have you tried strapping into both?  Either at a demo day or at a store.
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/26/2012 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by snowcker

Have you tried strapping into both?  Either at a demo day or at a store.

Niether, these older models are no longer in stock at my local shop.  I've only been able to read reviews and am pretty limited in terms of selection here on this site.
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  Quote Dice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/26/2012 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by fj5

 

That's really interesting to read that you like the P1.1's more... can you elaborate a little more on why?  Do you find the P1.1's to be softer in flex than the SL?  Do either of them have canting?  Also, which would you say is better for all mtn riding?  Would you take both those bindings into the park?  Thanks in advance!  I'm looking to pair either of them with the Thrive Renegade I recently purchased.

I've tried both on same board(s) and in the same mountain(s) trails. Here's how I feel:

COMFORT: I found the P1's more comfortable after a full day of riding. My feet don't hurt and no pinch. Just comfortable all day. While on the SL's, my feet would start to hurt after the 3rd run, especially if I'm trying to pull some tricks (little ones that I know) or do trees.

FLEX: They are similar in that I can do same things on both. But I like the high backs on the Burton P1 better in terms of heel side response on turns at high speed. And I do a LOT of high speed chasing and racing. So to me that's a biggy.

CONSTRUCTION: Similar to a comment from earlier above, I had to tighten up my SL's more often than none. And I don't recall the last time I did that on the P1's.

RATCHETS: The P1's slide in and out real smooth and easy! Often I'd be heading into the lift lineup and can unstrap the P1's while board still surfing. The SL's sometimes get stuck and need to stop and push to open. 

Neither of them has canting, and both are playfull and all mountain. I personally prefer the P1's. I'm not much of a park guy, but I'm always there doing mostly jumps and boxes. And I find more comfort in the P1's on big jumps and box slides.

Now I'm looking at either the Cartels or the VITAs to buy on boxing day (tomorrow)! Wink

I hope this helps.

Cheers...
PEOPLE ARE ALL THE SAME… THEY ALL THINK THEY ARE DIFFERENT!!! -------- GEAR: Palmer Timeless 164, Nitro Haze 156, Burton T6 164, Ride Machete 161W (LE), Burton P1.1, Burton C60, Union Force SL, K2 DB T1 (boots)
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/27/2012 at 7:19am
^ Wow, thanks Dice, that's very informative.  You just made my decision that much harder now. hahaha  I thought I was set on the SL's but I will continue to read more reviews and do a bit more research before I bite.  I still have a bit of time before I hit 3000.

Thing is, limited sizes on this site left... I wear size Nike ZF1 size 8.5 and DC Park size 9... do you think sizing will be an issue given that Small is 3-8 and Large is 10+?  There's still a M/L left for the SL's though.  I can actually fit in my size Small Burton C60 EST once I extended everything to it's largest setting.
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  Quote Dice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/27/2012 at 12:15pm
Now sure about sizing! Confused

But keeping in mind my main issue with them is (1) comfort, and (2) heel side (high-back) response! 

On comfort, my friend never complained and he rode with them all day! So it could be my feet anatomy, etc.

On high-back, it all depends what you want from the board and how you drive it.

There's one thing I don't get much (sometimes) but read about on the Union toe straps getting lose due to material! And you need to tighten up the screws often on the Union as I once lost a complete toe strap (still looking for it) on the way up in the chair lift! LOL Something to look into or think about.

Good luck, an I hope this helped!

Cheers...
PEOPLE ARE ALL THE SAME… THEY ALL THINK THEY ARE DIFFERENT!!! -------- GEAR: Palmer Timeless 164, Nitro Haze 156, Burton T6 164, Ride Machete 161W (LE), Burton P1.1, Burton C60, Union Force SL, K2 DB T1 (boots)
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  Quote fj5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/28/2012 at 10:54pm
After some careful and long-winded deliberation, I have decided to stick to my initial choice and go with the Union Force SL... as it is the only one that comes in M and it's about time I owned a proper sized binding. LOL

EDIT: So after browsing this site extensively, I also came across the Forum Shaka in my size too... any thoughts? Dead
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  Quote Dice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/29/2012 at 8:28am
From what I was told, they are owned by Burton and be the closest thing to a Cartel!!!! Re:Flex tech, etc. Cheers...
PEOPLE ARE ALL THE SAME… THEY ALL THINK THEY ARE DIFFERENT!!! -------- GEAR: Palmer Timeless 164, Nitro Haze 156, Burton T6 164, Ride Machete 161W (LE), Burton P1.1, Burton C60, Union Force SL, K2 DB T1 (boots)
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