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Disc hardware is loosening-- using thread lock

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Lux View Drop Down
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  Quote Lux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Disc hardware is loosening-- using thread lock
    Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 3:06pm
Hiya Trusnow!

So basically I have a problem with my bindings. The four screws that fasten the mounting discs to the snowboard will tend to back off every two or three runs and it's beginning to get annoying. Just to be clear: I do tighten the screws down firmly... any tighter and I would need my impact driver to remove them. I bought a Dakine Stance Driver to keep in my jacket, but would rather address the issue at its root cause. I've never had this problem before with any other past setup. I am beginning to suspect that the bindings are too stiff for the noodle-flexing board. By design, my bindings have flared out feet that protrude from all four corners of the baseplate to give even more stiffness and response. These Flux 'Stabiliser' feet are non-removable.

My Flux TT30 did not have this issue, and I am using the exact same hardware. I do a lot of buttering and presses-- and I mean A LOT of buttering and presses-- with lots of stress on the board when my weight lands far in the back seat. I just suspect the board, being so soft, is unable to bow back and forth around such a stiff binding's wide footprint, and that wiggling is backing off the hardware.

The bindings are Flux SF45. The board is Rome Artifact Rocker.

I've used blue thread lock and am now considering either ordering new hardware from Flux or using red or black thread lock.

Has anybody else had this issue, and what do you guys recommend?
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  Quote gsrrr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 4:06pm
Do not use thread lock.  I believe it will damage the plastic.  Have you tried plumber's tape? 
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  Quote derbytownjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 4:23pm
from a warranty standpoint.... if you use it, its bad...
but seeing as how the screws come with a bit of blue on the side anyways......

use at your own discretioin........ but only on the threads of the screws......

oh and only loctite blue......
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  Quote Lux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 4:48pm
I am already using blue thread lock but it hasn't helped. Thread lock compounds have a breakaway torque when cured and, somehow, I've been able to overcome that lock torque on all eight screws...
Originally posted by gsrrr

Do not use thread lock.  I believe it will damage the plastic.  Have you tried plumber's tape? 
Which plastic? Also, I have not used Teflon tape, because it is designed for friction-reducing sealing rather than locking threads.
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  Quote gsrrr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Lux

I am already using blue thread lock but it hasn't helped. Thread lock compounds have a breakaway torque when cured and, somehow, I've been able to overcome that lock torque on all eight screws...
Originally posted by gsrrr

Do not use thread lock.  I believe it will damage the plastic.  Have you tried plumber's tape? 
Which plastic? Also, I have not used Teflon tape, because it is designed for friction-reducing sealing rather than locking threads.

Binding disc.  


You can used the tape to ensure a tight fit so the screws do not loosen.


I'd order new hardware if you have time but you can use the tape in the mean time if you are going to snowboard.
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  Quote chillwill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by gsrrr

Do not use thread lock.  I believe it will damage the plastic.  Have you tried plumber's tape? 


Is this what you are talking about?  The tape you use for water filters etc?


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  Quote gsrrr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by chillwill

Originally posted by gsrrr

Do not use thread lock.  I believe it will damage the plastic.  Have you tried plumber's tape? 


Is this what you are talking about?  The tape you use for water filters etc?



yup, also called telfon tape. 
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  Quote GOBANANAS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 5:25pm
plumber's tape is just to help prevent leaks, not to stop the thread from loosening
Teflon tape is also referred to as tape dope or plumber's tape, since it is widely used to create a seal between two threaded joints in plumbing.

Read more: Uses for Teflon Tape | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6633816_uses-teflon-tape.html#ixzz2HjYA7nkc
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  Quote derbytownjoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by GOBANANAS

plumber's tape is just to help prevent leaks, not to stop the thread from loosening.. or at least i think it is

if you have any actual experience, please come and drive through again.....
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  Quote GOBANANAS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 6:03pm
 teflon tape is NOT the same thing as threadlock. threadlock is an adhesive to help prevent loosening. teflon tape is used to seal pipe fittings to prevent leaks. I use teflon tape all the time for air tools to prevent air leaks and not only do the air fittings screw in easier when i use teflon tape; but they unscrew easier too.    
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  Quote bataleon155 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 6:12pm
i have had a board with the tapes on all 8 screws for 2years, i don't have to re-tighten it once. so, have you try it beside on air tools? 
hmmm... Now What???   
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  Quote GOBANANAS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 6:33pm
come to think of it, i haven't ever had any air fittings loosen, not even on my hand numbing air hammer. teflon tape might actually be great to prevent screws from loosening from vibrations, and still only require a low torque to remove the screws. sorry about my outburst
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  Quote bataleon155 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 7:27pm
that's the beauty of using the telfon tapes, it will hold the screws in place, and still able to take it apart with ease. 
hmmm... Now What???   
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  Quote rye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/11/2013 at 8:30pm
pretty sure that if you mess around with the binding screws it voids your waranty pretty much. 
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  Quote 2zz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2013 at 8:58am
Wish I can help.
I have an Artifact Rocker. I had rode it with bindings that have a stiff baseplates like Salomon Relay Series, K2 Agogo, etc. I never experience your problem even if I butter for a few runs.
I dunno where you are screwing in your bindings, but try to do it the night before in a warmer room on a flat surface instead of doing it on the snow.
If nothing works, try getting a different set of screws and see if that helps.
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  Quote batmanwest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2013 at 10:44am
That sucks lux, I have been there before and it just sucks. Actually had a binder come completely off while riding, NOT fun. LOL
The tip about not re-tightening the bolts out in the cold is a solid one. Take your gear into the lodge and let it warm up first then re-tighten.

Now, for some thought into a permanent solution for you.
Yes, everything we read about binders and hardware clearly states that you should never use loctite. Ever. But, funny thing is every piece of hardware I have ever seen has a few little dabs of Blue 242 threadlocker on it. I understand why companies say to never use loctite. Most people wouldn't think to let the loctite DRY before mounting your binders. Then...you more than likely will be shit out of luck trying to get that hardware back out of your board and then possibly destroy your inserts.

I say use some loctite on your hardware. BUT, let that shit DRY first before mounting!! Give it a solid 2 hours or so in warm temps before mounting. Coat the hell out of all the threads, top to bottom. What it seems like is happening is the hardware threads are a slightly different thread style than what your inserts are, which will cause the slightest amount of play in the hardware, THUS...causing the bolts to back themselves out.

Honestly, I would try ordering a new set of hardware before any of this. If your bolts have backed themselves out a few times already, I am sure the threads have been worn down even more (the insert threads could be slightly worn as well). But starting with fresh HW can't hurt.

Even with the new HW, I would still coat them in loctite before mounting the first time (once again let them dry!! Big smile) Now here is the thing though....threadlocker blue 242 loctite does a damn fine job at well...locking threads, but I have found that under stress it dramatically reduces the effectiveness of the threadlocking capabilities. SO, I would suggest looking into a retention loctite compound. It's the red stuff btw. Personally I would use any of these....the 232, 635, 675 or possibly the 680. I think your best bet would be with the 232 or the 635. I have used both of those on may bike parts in our shop and it works many times better than the blue 242 when it comes to bolts under high stress.

SO, I say go right ahead with using loctite, and don't worry about it. As long as it's dry before you mount, I really don't see how it could damage anything. But, as with anything in life, you never totally know so don't come screaming at me if something gets messed up...even though I really don't think anything could.

Good luck homie, and fill us in on what you try, and if it works!
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  Quote Lux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/12/2013 at 4:12pm
Thanks guys, I'm going to buy Teflon tape tomorrow at the parts store since I've none at home and then try it on my board. I use it all the time for work but never to lock threads because, just to be clear, it actually DOES NOT secure fasteners. As GOBANANAS explains, Teflon tape is for sealing threaded connections and inhibit thread seizure, which is the opposite objective of thread lock. But if it's worked for some folks, then it's worth a shot. I was previously aware of the chemical reaction that thread lock compounds can have with some plastics, but it never occurred to me that my mounting disc was also a plastic product hahah Clap (fail, I know lol...) I'll give it a try and post an update on the results; this will take a few days to play out.
Originally posted by GOBANANAS

 teflon tape is NOT the same thing as threadlock. threadlock is an adhesive to help prevent loosening. teflon tape is used to seal pipe fittings to prevent leaks. I use teflon tape all the time for air tools to prevent air leaks and not only do the air fittings screw in easier when i use teflon tape; but they unscrew easier too.    
Aye, I've got tape on all of my air tools too, as well as my air lines and torches. Great for sealing up those annoying air leaks in the brass fittings! Are you by any chance an automotive tradesman as well? Big smile
Originally posted by 2zz

I have an Artifact Rocker. I had rode it with bindings that have a stiff baseplates like Salomon Relay Series, K2 Agogo, etc. I never experience your problem even if I butter for a few runs.
Yeah it just seemed really strange to me because they were the exact same screws from my TT30 and they worked like a dream on the same board. I just can't put my finger on what's going on. Unfortunately, I don't have any other bindings on hand to verify my speculation that it is the stiffness and footprint of my SF45 that is a poor match and causing the issue.
Originally posted by batmanwest

That sucks lux, I have been there before and it just sucks. Actually had a binder come completely off while riding, NOT fun. LOL 
The tip about not re-tightening the bolts out in the cold is a solid one. Take your gear into the lodge and let it warm up first then re-tighten. 

Now, for some thought into a permanent solution for you. 
Yes, everything we read about binders and hardware clearly states that you should never use loctite. Ever. But, funny thing is every piece of hardware I have ever seen has a few little dabs of Blue 242 threadlocker on it. I understand why companies say to never use loctite. Most people wouldn't think to let the loctite DRY before mounting your binders. Then...you more than likely will be shit out of luck trying to get that hardware back out of your board and then possibly destroy your inserts. 

I say use some loctite on your hardware. BUT, let that shit DRY first before mounting!! Give it a solid 2 hours or so in warm temps before mounting. Coat the hell out of all the threads, top to bottom. What it seems like is happening is the hardware threads are a slightly different thread style than what your inserts are, which will cause the slightest amount of play in the hardware, THUS...causing the bolts to back themselves out. 

Honestly, I would try ordering a new set of hardware before any of this. If your bolts have backed themselves out a few times already, I am sure the threads have been worn down even more (the insert threads could be slightly worn as well). But starting with fresh HW can't hurt. 

Even with the new HW, I would still coat them in loctite before mounting the first time (once again let them dry!! Big smile) Now here is the thing though....threadlocker blue 242 loctite does a damn fine job at well...locking threads, but I have found that under stress it dramatically reduces the effectiveness of the threadlocking capabilities. SO, I would suggest looking into a retention loctite compound. It's the red stuff btw. Personally I would use any of these....the 232, 635, 675 or possibly the 680. I think your best bet would be with the 232 or the 635. I have used both of those on may bike parts in our shop and it works many times better than the blue 242 when it comes to bolts under high stress. 

SO, I say go right ahead with using loctite, and don't worry about it. As long as it's dry before you mount, I really don't see how it could damage anything. But, as with anything in life, you never totally know so don't come screaming at me if something gets messed up...even though I really don't think anything could. 

Good luck homie, and fill us in on what you try, and if it works! 
Thanks BMW for your generous suggestion! Right now I'll give Teflon tape a try being that it's less invasive. Failing that, I will use heavy duty red thread lock (as an experiment) before ordering hardware.
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  Quote mbesp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2013 at 11:32am
I figured I would chime in here.  My GFs binding screws were backing out like crazy and I was the one who had to tighten them.  So I decided to put some blue thread lock on them.  I was very careful when applying that it was only on the metal of the screw threads and the metal of the board inserts.  Been over a year now and screws are holding tight and bindings have not been damaged.  So far so good.
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  Quote OscarDaGrouch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/15/2013 at 1:30pm
I mean, if binding hardware comes with blue loctite on it anyways and as long as you dont go squirting it all over your bindings or discs and do as Batman suggested....
wouldnt this be the best way?

I also dont think that teflon tape would work as well... I mean it is only a sealer, one that is supposed to keep threads from locking, isnt it?
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  Quote mbesp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/15/2013 at 1:48pm
That was my theory ODG.  seems like something blue and hopefully designed to prevent backing out was already on the threads so why would adding some fresh stuff cause any problems.
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  Quote koyota93 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/15/2013 at 1:55pm
I know on some jib boards, specifically the Capita Horrorscope and Stairmaster, to allow them to be super flexible the cores are thinner. As a result, you have to use a shorter screw or else it will bottom out and not tighten all the way. If you muscle down on it with standard screws, it will dimple the bottom of the base. My example is specific to Capita, but Rome may have thinner cores on their jib boards also. 
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/15/2013 at 2:15pm
I've used teflon tape if anyone wanted a take with someone who's done it.
Some of the screws don't come lose but there was one or two that still did even after putting on the teflon tape.
Its works but to an extent.
haven't too much of an issue as to having me take it out and put on the loctite cause I did buy some a couple of seasons back.

I tried wax.. didn't work too well just got quite messy.
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  Quote JDiggidy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/16/2013 at 6:17am
Back in the day, my beginner board would loosen up all  the time.  That's actually when I started riding with a tool.  

Crazy thing was, when I got stiffer bindings, I've never had the problem again.  I wonder, therefore, if the problem can be traced to the flexing of the board/binding combo itself?
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  Quote 2zz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/24/2013 at 7:18pm
well...if he uses it, then it most work?
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