Overwaxing |
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Weymaro
Ski Bum
Joined: May/31/2011 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 159 |
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Topic: OverwaxingPosted: Feb/18/2013 at 3:26pm |
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After everyday that I go out, I always put on a little rub on wax. The last time I went out I noticed my board was really sticky on my first ride down (strangely, it was only when I was riding in switch) am I waxing too much? Is it necessary to wax after every day out (my days are usually 4-8 hours). Or is my base just getting old?
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Oinker
Instructor
Joined: Oct/22/2009 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 482 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2013 at 3:30pm |
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Rub on wax will only last a few runs at best. It sounds like your base needs a good hot waxing. If you are not familiar with how to perform a hot wax yourself on the board most shops charge in the area of $20 for a hot wax.
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Witty1
Local
Joined: Nov/22/2011 Location: 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 518 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2013 at 4:11pm |
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You can overwax... but only with a hotwax.
As Oinker said, rub on wax only lasts a couple runs. When hotwaxing though... you need to scrape off all of the surface wax from your base material. |
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keljai
Instructor
Joined: Mar/01/2010 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2765 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2013 at 5:35pm |
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well u say you rub on wax everytime, your not rubbing on actual wax and not the rubon wax? (as in rubbing a bar of wax)
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coolz
Local
Joined: Aug/15/2011 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1643 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2013 at 5:47pm |
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lol that would be so jokes and totally see that happening with a noobie "rub on wax" nice |
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humblerooster
Local
Joined: Jan/02/2012 Location: 16 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1018 |
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Posted: Feb/18/2013 at 5:59pm |
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Every time I used rub on wax it would be sticky on the first run then perfect for the rest of the day. I stopped using rub on now. Every run counts.
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Weymaro
Ski Bum
Joined: May/31/2011 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 159 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 7:12am |
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Thanks guys, I have a really old, crappy board so I'll probably buy a new board rather than hot wax it.
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Oinker
Instructor
Joined: Oct/22/2009 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 482 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 7:39am |
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Well… that is one way to approach the situation. Buy a new board when you need a wax job. LOL! TruSnow will be happy to hear (read) that! Have fun shopping! |
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AJD13
Ski Bum
Cannon. on the ground nothing new! Joined: Sep/08/2010 Location: 21 Online Status: Offline Posts: 519 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 8:51am |
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well... i hate to inform you that even if you bought a new board youd have to wax it after 3 or 4 days anyhow! and even if you do over wax on the hotwax its not a huge deal scrape it off, and if you miss a spot it will eventually flake off going down the mountain.
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2zz
Local
Joined: Apr/03/2008 Location: 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1748 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 9:42am |
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Happened to my buddy as well. I dunno why. He applies rub on wax right before we walk up to the slopes. One day on his first run, he was not moving on a slight declining slope. It was hilarious.
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rye
Instructor
Joined: Apr/06/2011 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1881 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 9:49am |
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well hot wax knowledge will be required sooner or later. If you plan on doing it youself, you might as well practice on an old board so you dont overheat your new board
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bdanross
Local
Joined: Nov/11/2010 Location: 9 Online Status: Offline Posts: 367 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 10:10am |
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^agree. learn how to wax from youtube videos or from these forums. if you just want to wax all you need is an iron ($3 from goodwill) and a scraper ($10 from the ski shop) and wax. if you want to completely tune it will cost maybe $100 max for a kit if you are buying everything. the dakine kit is 60 on TS my friend has it and its pretty good. that's some bases hold wax better than others. I have one ROME board that i wax every day to every other. some people go 4-5. but once a season is tough on the old board.
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spenser
Instructor
Joined: Jul/24/2008 Online Status: Online Posts: 14330 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 10:18am |
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I can't tell because the sentences don't make the most sense, but are you guys saying there are two different kinds of wax for hotwaxing VS rubon? because besides pastes and all that, it's all the same stuff with the same formulas. If I'm mistaken somehow, my bad
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Sintexo
Instructor
Joined: Jul/24/2008 Location: 28 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3211 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 10:36am |
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^ I mean there is wax that is sold as "rub on" instead of hot wax, like this dakine stuff I used a while back.
Not sure if it's just the same wax marketed differently, or if it is actually a different type.
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spenser
Instructor
Joined: Jul/24/2008 Online Status: Online Posts: 14330 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 10:39am |
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that's probably not a hard bar, but I don't know for sure. anyway, it's not as if the formulas are different, as you need said formula for the wax to work. if it's a hard bar that says rub on, it's all the same. pastes are probably only rub-on specific because you can't really use an iron with them, haha.
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Sintexo
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Joined: Jul/24/2008 Location: 28 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3211 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 10:53am |
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If I recall, it definitely wasn't "paste," although it wasn't as hard as most iron on waxes either. It kind of had the consistency of a harder chapstick, or the non-gel deodorants. But I agree, it has to basically be the same thing. I do think they mentioned on the back that it could be used as hot-wax or rub on. Don't quote me on that though, as I could be completely making that up.
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Angry Midget Yo
Instructor
Tailpress at Mammoth! Joined: Mar/16/2010 Location: 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5302 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 11:34am |
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Just carry your rub on wax and keep waxing after a few runs I would think.
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MTpow
Expert Members
Joined: Feb/19/2009 Location: 43 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1833 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 11:42am |
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or quit wasting your money buying pos rub on wax and go buy an iron from a thrift store and some regular old all temp and do it the right way... |
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MOAR powderz plz!
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rye
Instructor
Joined: Apr/06/2011 Location: 51 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1881 |
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Posted: Feb/19/2013 at 1:12pm |
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vicente
Local
Joined: Nov/09/2009 Location: 18 Online Status: Online Posts: 757 |
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Posted: Feb/21/2013 at 9:45pm |
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you can just crayon something on if you're in a hurry I crayon hertel on all the time if someones going to take one of my boards or the thrive's I've got out and i haven't waxed it works fine.
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Chop
Local
Joined: Jan/01/2008 Location: 32 Online Status: Offline Posts: 539 |
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Posted: Feb/23/2013 at 2:41am |
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It's true that you can "crayon" on harder waxes when in a bind, but your better off getting a waxing cork if you'd prefer doing a quickie job. It doesn't take as long as a hot wax, and gets deeper into the base so it will last longer.
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37! In a row?
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Backside10
Instructor
Joined: Feb/16/2009 Location: 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 542 |
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Posted: Mar/11/2013 at 7:59pm |
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Do yourself a favor and throw out your rubbing wax and buy an iron. The wax that really counts is the wax that gets into the pores of your board, rubbing wax does do this. Hot wax for the win!
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Nitro Rook 156, Burton Cartels
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spenser
Instructor
Joined: Jul/24/2008 Online Status: Online Posts: 14330 |
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Posted: Mar/11/2013 at 8:04pm |
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there are no pores in base material, it's always been a metaphor for the structure in bases - mainly sintered bases, as extruded bases don't really have much structure.
I say that every time it comes up just to try to dispel the "rumor," hah.
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Backside10
Instructor
Joined: Feb/16/2009 Location: 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 542 |
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Posted: Mar/14/2013 at 7:38pm |
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"Pores"..."Structure"....whatever you call it, the bottom line is hot wax lasts longer and runs faster because it's adhering to the board more than rub on wax and not leaving extra wax to get all gummed.
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Nitro Rook 156, Burton Cartels
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LaNieve
Ski Bum
Joined: Nov/08/2012 Location: 8 Online Status: Offline Posts: 165 |
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Posted: Mar/15/2013 at 4:35am |
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I think pores and structure are pretty much the same thing here, theyre both microscopic holes in the base that are filled with wax to increase speed..
lets not get too technical, it gets confusing I heard one guy saying that bases dont have pores and that the base doesnt absorb wax at all, and that hot waxing was just putting a thin layer of 'wax coating' on the base (seriously!?) so when i see someone saying that bases dont have pores, ^ is just what i get reminded of.. haha
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Backside10
Instructor
Joined: Feb/16/2009 Location: 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 542 |
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Posted: Mar/15/2013 at 2:27pm |
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Concur! You're scraping off most of the surface wax when you hot wax anyways, so the wax is clearly not just on the surface. |
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Nitro Rook 156, Burton Cartels
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spenser
Instructor
Joined: Jul/24/2008 Online Status: Online Posts: 14330 |
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Posted: Mar/15/2013 at 7:57pm |
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a pore is a hole that something passes through. wax is not "inside" the base like it would be if there were pores. structure is microscopic nooks/valleys/etc that the wax fills in on the surface. either term makes the point, but technically one is correct and one is not, that's all. doesn't really matter, I just tend to note that when I see it come up.
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| | | bryman | | |
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Joined: Aug/19/2007 Location: 48 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2417 |
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Posted: Mar/15/2013 at 8:39pm |
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^^^ I shtooking love science!
-b
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get bent
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LaNieve
Ski Bum
Joined: Nov/08/2012 Location: 8 Online Status: Offline Posts: 165 |
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Posted: Mar/16/2013 at 7:44am |
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I fully get what you mean It basically talked about how deep the wax infiltrated into the microscopic holes in the snowboard depending on the temperature of the environment and time the board was hotwaxed (if youre looking at board cut in half cross section, hot waxing with iron only filled something like 10% or less of the base depth while hotboxing etc let the wax fill the deeper holes) there are loads of products out there like hot boxes and board sleeves that allow the board to sit in a warm environment without getting the base burnt by the iron, just to allow the wax to penetrate further into the microscopic holes in the base.. so if the bases only have valley-like microscopic dimples on the surface why would people find the need to let the wax penetrate further into the base? the use of these products must mean that the base structure goes way deeper than just the surface.. therefore i believe that the base material is full of the structure, not only just the immediate surface if that makes sense
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gugjin0109
Lift Op.
Joined: Mar/12/2013 Location: 22 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2 |
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Posted: Mar/16/2013 at 8:16am |
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I dont think you used the proper scraper... You could go to a shop and get you was done... my shop only costs 10 dollarrs and they use quality waxes
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Witty1
Local
Joined: Nov/22/2011 Location: 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 518 |
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Posted: Mar/16/2013 at 8:58am |
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Sintered bases are made by heating powdered ptex so that it fuses to a porous material capable of absorbing wax. It is then cut into sheets.
Extruded bases are just squeezed out in a molten sheet and allowed to cool.Racing skis have sintered bases.
Sintered bases would be more prone to oxidation if left unwaxed. |
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spenser
Instructor
Joined: Jul/24/2008 Online Status: Online Posts: 14330 |
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Posted: Mar/16/2013 at 9:16am |
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pores have always been a metaphor for structure. there are just literally not any pores in base material. it's also a myth that heat "opens" the pores. the temperature required to expand base material to a point that a wax molecule could get inside it would have melted the base before reaching said temperature. either way, wax does permeate the base, just not into pores. this is all just semantics for the sake of semantics but I find it interesting. the overall point is that yes you do need to hot wax sintered bases for them to work, no matter what the microscopic truth is, haha
edit: the below link is no longer there... damnit. but anyway, it was full of scientific mumbo jumbo explaining all this, along with microscope images of base material. the structure is pretty wild, it's not just symmetrical straight valleys that wax sits in, but it's quite literally not "pores" either. anyway, here was the rest of my original post... read into this, it's actually pretty interesting. go to the "myths and fables" menu and then read through "base pores" and whatever else you feel like reading the reason wood is mentioned below is because they had been talking about where the myth may have come from. back in the day, ski bases were made of wood, which does have pores.. makes sense why the term would still be used even though bases are no longer wooden, I guess ![]() |
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spenser
Instructor
Joined: Jul/24/2008 Online Status: Online Posts: 14330 |
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Posted: Mar/16/2013 at 9:39am |
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"I think of them as nooks, crannies, ridges and valleys (that expand and contract relative to heat), to which the wax adheres. The wax adhesion is also relative to direct contact to the zillions of mini-surfaces. Any deleterious material (just like paint on a dirty surface) will reduce the adhesion. Wax doesn't bond to the surfaces, it adheres. It takes multiple applications, to fully 'saturate' or cover all of these surfaces completely which adds to durability."
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Witty1
Local
Joined: Nov/22/2011 Location: 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 518 |
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Posted: Mar/16/2013 at 11:19am |
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Hey Spenser....
What exactly are we looking at in these pictures??
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ctoma
Instructor
Joined: Mar/17/2010 Location: 36 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4543 |
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Posted: Mar/16/2013 at 11:57am |
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^ I believe that is a microscopic view of the structure of a snowboard base.
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Witty1
Local
Joined: Nov/22/2011 Location: 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 518 |
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Posted: Mar/16/2013 at 11:59am |
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That's what I was hoping for, I've just never seen a brown base...
Looks like wood at 500x...
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sleeepili
Local
catching air at bear Joined: Aug/05/2010 Location: 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 595 |
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Posted: Mar/23/2013 at 5:31am |
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find out if you have a sintered or extruded base. if it's sintered, pay (or put in the time to do it yourself) for a solid iron-in wax job, it will last you a couple of riding days. If you have an extruded base, the iron-in doesnt hold as well so you can be a bit sloppy. Rub-on wax comes off after a few runs
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Blur510
Instructor
Joined: Feb/27/2009 Location: 19 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1328 |
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Posted: Mar/24/2013 at 12:28pm |
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Now that my season is over, should I wax my board before storing it or should I even bother? I usually do but I don't want to do it unless I have to.
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2zz
Local
Joined: Apr/03/2008 Location: 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1748 |
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Posted: Mar/24/2013 at 2:21pm |
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^blur510
Wax it before to prevent the base from drying out. And don't scrape off the wax till next season. At least that's what I've been told and I've always done it. |
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