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Stiff binding question

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djmaya View Drop Down
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  Quote djmaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Stiff binding question
    Posted: Sep/10/2013 at 8:50am
I am going to be buying a new set up this season. And getting either a 165W custom camber or a 164W custom X

I like my bindings stiff and currently have some really beat up CO2s
I am looking to decide between some diodeReflex or Flow NX2-RS

A few of the people I ride with ride flow bindings, (really old models) and they love them. Granted they are not the most expert riders so their opinions don;t sway me much. They also make me feel like a slowpoke when we get of the lift.

The thing is when ever I ask people about flow bindings they either love them or hate them. No one says they are good. So it seems like most of the opinions are either biased or irrational.

I am unable to test ride the bindings because my friends have the tiniest feet ever (size 8 and 9.5) so my size 13 boots don't fit at all on their binding or boards.

So here is the real question. Are the classic complains about flow bindings (icing up, flimsy, not very stiff, not a reliable fit) still relevant?

Ps. this is a re-post as I put this on the wrong section and did not get any responses that answered my question/
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  Quote Angry Midget Yo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2013 at 11:13am
My 3 bros ride fairly old Flows like 5 years and they never had any of those complaints.  They love their Flows and will never go back to straps.
Sessions sucks hairy monkey balls, the end.
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  Quote sideways99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2013 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Angry Midget Yo

My 3 bros ride fairly old Flows like 5 years and they never had any of those complaints.  They love their Flows and will never go back to straps.


Ugh.  Rear entry should only be used if you're with a stripper who just got a fresh Brazilian.
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  Quote vicente Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2013 at 11:44am
yea all of those are relevant complaints, plus parts are impossible to find so if you lose a screw you just might be waiting a week t get a new one from flow, cause some of the parts even I can't ghetto rig and I'm pretty good at it. Problems I've had with include opening up when I hit a drop or turn really hard putting a lot of pressure on the highback, also they're pretty tough to get in and out of if you cliff yourself out on really steep terrain. 

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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/11/2013 at 7:36am
hmm... i guess i should start looking into bindings for this upcoming season
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  Quote djmaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/11/2013 at 8:42am
The parts point is a really good one.
I noticed there were a lot of changes on their higher end bindings last season. Does anyone have any first hand experience with those?
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  Quote Angry Midget Yo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/11/2013 at 12:02pm
If you are worried about parts then I would try contacting Flow to send you replacement parts, which is what I did with all of my boas since it's free so why not?  LOL  I don't know about you but my bros can get out of their Flows easier whether they're on a steep or buried in pow than me in traditional.  LOL
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  Quote Lux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/12/2013 at 5:34pm
You posted the same question in the general discussion forum section and you received some replies. I'll copy+paste my reply here:

Originally posted by Lux

I don't think anybody here has used the new NX2 series from Flow. Very niche market, very expensive product. NX2 is a very big change from their old NX line; it's a completely different animal so opinions on old Flow bindings are no longer valid.

On the basis of comfort, support, and adjustability, and exceptional quality, I would recommend:

Flux SF45

Flux DMCC

SF45 is their most-used binding after the Cartel, and is their benchmark binding for reviewing stiff boards. DMCC is the Burton Diode competitor that is carbon injected to be lighter and stiffer than its basis, the SF45. A notable feature on the Flux bindings is the removable stabiliser feet on the chassis that can allow more lateral binding roll/flex if desired, or keep them on for maximum rigidity.

I use the SF45 extensively on an Arbor Element 158. DMCC and Diode price is difficult to justify for me because those few extra grams of weight difference are negligible. I don't know of anyone with size 13 feet who has tried Flux bindings, they do not have XL-sized frames like Burton and Union. If you've never tried Flux bindings, try them on; I bet you'll love the comfort!

For 2014, Flux changed their nomenclature: SF45 is now SF, DMCC is now DM. The 2014 DM and SF baseplate has undergone a facelift for even more rigidity and new poly-density footbeds moulded for freestyle or freeride.

My problem with Flow in the past was the poor highback support due to the lack of the feet being locked-in under positive pressure. Adjustment on Flow bindings for better fit have also consistently been difficult. I had the Flow Pro-11 FR, which was the stiffest, strongest Flow binding that you anyone could buy at the time, but the common complaints for Flow bindings persisted. They were very heavy but were an exceptionally damp ride. The new NX2 line is completely different: tonnes of weight was shed, new dual-action release makes entry/exit much easier, better boot support, shit tonnes of cushioning, and better adjustability.

I'd still argue that, if you are looking for a stiff, responsive binding, don't waste your time with quick-release/quick-entry bindings. Just go for the tried-and-true good stuff from Burton (Diode), Union (Charger), and Flux (SF).
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/13/2013 at 9:37am
I'm thinking of getting K2, burton, or Salomon... They're aroudn $100 and pretty reputable.
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  Quote Angry Midget Yo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/13/2013 at 11:39am
Originally posted by jihyungchun

I'm thinking of getting K2, burton, or Salomon... They're aroudn $100 and pretty reputable.

They're cheap for a reason.  LOL  Well, whatever you pick, you get what you paid for.
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  Quote vicente Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/13/2013 at 12:56pm
if you're on a budget buy a good pair of used bindings vs a crappy pair of new bindings. You can pick up used forces in good shape for around 100, the classifieds here are a great place to look, I've bought two pairs that way.

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  Quote sideways99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/13/2013 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by Angry Midget Yo

Originally posted by jihyungchun

I'm thinking of getting K2, burton, or Salomon... They're aroudn $100 and pretty reputable.

They're cheap for a reason.  LOL  Well, whatever you pick, you get what you paid for.


Depends.  Some web sites are selling 1 - 3 year old gear, so you're just getting the older version of the binding.  Sure, you might miss out on some new technology as a lot of companies improve their products each year but in the end if you are more concerned about the amount you spend than the latest and greatest bindings you should be okay.
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  Quote 2zz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/13/2013 at 11:47pm
^djmaya

+1 with Lux.
Flux and Unions are what I'll recommend.
I don't know about the new Flows, but if you want stiff bindings, I'll not recommend them due to the structure of Flows can't be as supportive as fixed heel cup bindings.
Plus more parts = more weight.

^j.chun

If $100 is your price range, try to craigslist them. Be patient.
Or if there're sports stores around like AnyMountain, Sports Authority, etc. Wait for there coupons in the weekly ad.
If you want to get a new pair, lower end Salomon's aren't that good. Had the Chiefs bindings from Salomon a couple...maybe a few years back. It was not impressive. The toe strap sucked, buckles...sucked, not much damping.
Lower end Burton's and K2's are better than Salomon's lower end but they might have improved by now.
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  Quote Muse25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/14/2013 at 4:40pm

Originally posted by sideways99

Originally posted by Angry Midget Yo

My 3 bros ride fairly old Flows like 5 years and they never had any of those complaints.  They love their Flows and will never go back to straps.


Ugh.  Rear entry should only be used if you're with a stripper who just got a fresh Brazilian.

LOL...gross, but still LOL

Flows suck! I first had them because my buddy raved about them. Then I went to straps and never went back. The response with flows just aren't there. Even with their high end flows, they don't compare to traditional straps.
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2013 at 8:57pm
i'm thinking of running Burton Jet snowboard boots with the speed dial system and burton freestyle bindings. I hear they're good all mountain set up?
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2013 at 8:59pm
especially on a budget lol
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2013 at 9:00pm
there's no such thing as terrain specific boots or bindings.  the best setup for riding everything is exactly what you prefer.  if you like cheap, soft products, which is fine, then yes the jet and freestyle would be fine.. although boots are a specific fit, and need to fit YOUR foot properly.  you can't simply just pick a boot and go with it.
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2013 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by spenser

there's no such thing as terrain specific boots or bindings.  the best setup for riding everything is exactly what you prefer.  if you like cheap, soft products, which is fine, then yes the jet and freestyle would be fine.. although boots are a specific fit, and need to fit YOUR foot properly.  you can't simply just pick a boot and go with it.

LMAO 
I'd rather buy a used pair of bindings from c3 rather than the freestyle, much better value.

As for the OP maybe you could wait for a demo day and try out their gear then you'll know first hand. Check their site for promo's and demo dates possibly listed on your local mountain site as well.
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2013 at 9:34pm
yeah, i didn't mean that i want it cause it's terrain specific, i meant that soft bindings and boots are recommended for recreational/all mountain riders. and i've tried the boots, they're pretty comfortable and seemed to have a good amount cushion for an semi-beginner rider like myself.
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2013 at 9:38pm
I have never seen anyone say soft products are recommended for "all mountain" riding, but who knows.  "all mountain" is only a marketing term, and the industry standard for all mountain gear is usually that it's a medium flex or so.  but again, it's all about what you prefer.  you could have two people who ride the exact same way, but one of them prefers soft gear and the other stiff gear... or a combination like people who like soft bindings and stiff boots, or people who like soft boots and stiff bindings, etc.
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2013 at 10:44pm
yup... but like you're saying, there's a general "guideline" of if you're this type of rider, you'll most likely find this type of equipment most comfortable. I do have other set ups i've been using and i find soft boots and medium flex bindings the best for me, so i'm planning on going with the cheaper and more beginner geared equipment. I just wasn't sure what pp thought of these gears lol
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  Quote 2zz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2013 at 10:45pm
Very well said Spenser
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2013 at 10:55pm
in that case, if the jet fits you well and they are a flex that you like, go for it. as for the bindings, I don't know how much you want to spend, but you could get something much nicer than the freestyle for relatively cheap, if you find what you want on sale.  the freestyle is not a bad binding, it's just super basic and not the most responsive model.  hell, if you want a cheap burton binding, look into the custom.  worthwhile upgrades from the freestyle, a bit more solid, but still affordable.
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2013 at 11:14pm
ah ok thanks for the tip, wasn't sure how to test out a binding at a store or by online... i do want a good responsive bindings, so i guess i'll look into custom lol
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  Quote djmaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2013 at 9:18am
Hey Spenser,
Do you have anything to say about the original question of the post?
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  Quote Angry Midget Yo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2013 at 11:28am
Originally posted by jihyungchun

i'm thinking of running Burton Jet snowboard boots with the speed dial system and burton freestyle bindings. I hear they're good all mountain set up?

Whether the boot is good or not really depends on how they fit you specifically because not all boots will fit the same.  Finding the perfect fitting boot is the hardest thing to do because you have to try it on physically at the store and walk around in it for a bit.
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  Quote Lux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2013 at 11:48am
Originally posted by spenser

there's no such thing as terrain specific boots or bindings.  the best setup for riding everything is exactly what you prefer.
Try doing a tail block on a Virus alpine board. Not happening. Maybe we all feel like the Burton Fish is a great jib board... common sense would strongly differ. There needs to be some isolation of products sold by a company, and marketing towards a specific terrain is the most sensible approach. Otherwise, you'll have people picking up $700 powder boards to learn snowboarding on an east coast groomer. You need to understand that the companies are not the ones who establish categories; it's the riders who select boards suitable for their specific riding. The companies observe the trend and respond accordingly. And, oh by the way, it would appear that twin-tip mid-stiff camber boards are most popular on the jump line rather than a more relaxed/comfortable feeling S-rockered full-setback powder board. Is that a coincidence, or do you still feel like "what you prefer" comfort would supercede sense and functionality? Be mindful of where you throw around that "what you prefer" logic, because it's meaningless when people simply don't know what they want.
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  Quote rook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2013 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Lux

Originally posted by spenser

there's no such thing as terrain specific boots or bindings.  the best setup for riding everything is exactly what you prefer.
Try doing a tail block on a Virus alpine board. Not happening. Maybe we all feel like the Burton Fish is a great jib board... common sense would strongly differ. There needs to be some isolation of products sold by a company, and marketing towards a specific terrain is the most sensible approach. Otherwise, you'll have people picking up $700 powder boards to learn snowboarding on an east coast groomer. You need to understand that the companies are not the ones who establish categories; it's the riders who select boards suitable for their specific riding. The companies observe the trend and respond accordingly. And, oh by the way, it would appear that twin-tip mid-stiff camber boards are most popular on the jump line rather than a more relaxed/comfortable feeling S-rockered full-setback powder board. Is that a coincidence, or do you still feel like "what you prefer" comfort would supercede sense and functionality? Be mindful of where you throw around that "what you prefer" logic, because it's meaningless when people simply don't know what they want.

Spenser is talking about boots and bindings...... boards are by definition more terrain specific (but they never fit in the tight little boxes people want to put them in).  But I know tons of people who like all sorts of binding boot combos that some might consider weird.  Stiff boots with soft binders, or vise versa.  Or stiff boots/binding combo for park riding, or soft/soft for backcountry (both of these would be 'against' convention or marketing).  It is truly what ever you prefer when it comes to boots/bindings.  I for one don't really think most recreational riders can tell the difference between binding flex unless you go from contacts to targas or something like that. Especially when you start thinking about lateral flex vs highback stiffness. 
started by flossers making floss for flossers
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2013 at 12:20pm
lux doesn't seem to internet-like me much, or we just tend to disagree on things like this, or misunderstand each other... who knows.. maybe a combo.  either way, that's okay.  anyway, you're taking what I said to the extreme - I'm not saying you can ride anything for anything and it will work as well as anything else, I'm saying it IS all preference, but obviously there are trends.  it's not meant to be taken as "literally ride whatever you want," it's meant to be taken as "there are no facts about which boards are better, so find something in your spectrum and go for it."  people need to get the idea out of their head that there is a "best" for anything, but you can still point them in the right direction.  there is no "best" park binding, but if the person wants a more relaxed feel for that, you can point them to a range of bindings that will give them that, for example.  it's all preference and there is no factual answer, BUT that does not mean, at all, that there isn't a spectrum of products that is going to work better for someone's preferences.   I think the "truth" of this matter is that it's a mix of what we're both saying, but who knows.

I do think boots and bindings are more about preference than anything, because it's what creates the interface between your body and your board.  some people simply like a softer, looser interface, and others like the opposite, or some sort of combination, for any type of riding.  yes, there are still trends, but there is also so much variance that all you can say is that it IS preference.  boards, not as much, at least not in my opinion.  there is still a hazy grey area between all of them, but sure when you're comparing twins to extreme powder shapes, it's fair to say that one is going to work better for _________ because they're so different.  still, there are no facts about performance, just general ideas, but there is always a range that will work better for someone's style of riding, and it's always based on their preference. besides, there is a pretty big range between the marketing terms themselves.. there are plenty of examples of boards labeled as "park" that, by "definition," are far more "all mountain" than anything, and vice versa.  and within the same marketing category, there is just so much variance and overlap that again, you have to go back to preference.  yes, a new person won't know what they want, but that's why people are there to help them.  or, if that isn't an option for whatever reason, sure, they can go by marketing terms and product write-ups, and most likely end up with products that will work well for them, as long as they can find something generally in their spectrum, if they have a general idea of what they want to do.

anyway, you took what I said to the extreme because of how you interpreted it, and that's totally okay.  not everyone interprets everything the same, nor does everyone always agree.  I may have come off too general anyway, so that's my bad.  there is no problem here, just two different people in the big world.  either way, we're just arguing semantics that don't matter.. everything's gonna be okay.  I tend to back away and fade into the dust when I realize I'm getting too involved with messageboards, so here we go again : )
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  Quote sideways99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2013 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by spenser

lux doesn't seem to internet-like me much

You can say that again, haven't you guys butted heads before?

People need to take advice given on the internet for what it's worth, in some cases it's worthless, however I do agree with what you're saying spenser - you do not necessarily have to follow the category a manufacturer gives a snowboard to maximize it's use.
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2013 at 12:54pm
I was kind of joking when I said that.. none of it matters, but yeah we have disagreed on this same thing before.  and again, that's fine, no worries.  two different people, just the internet, all that jazz.
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/16/2013 at 2:33pm
lol yup wouldn't even say it's a disagreement lol, i'm just excited to dump my life savings on new equipment for this season!!
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  Quote Angry Midget Yo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/17/2013 at 11:33am
Originally posted by sideways99

 


You can say that again, haven't you guys butted heads before?



They're always bumping heads on teh interwebs, doesn't that mean they secretly like each other?  Shocked

If you really want to save money on new gear then either buy used or buy previous year gears on sale.
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/17/2013 at 5:51pm
we don't like each other, we like like each other Big smile
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/18/2013 at 7:45am
and you guys bump head secretly.
that's a little distrubing, even for the interwebz.. cuz i know the guy!
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  Quote | | | bryman | | | Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/18/2013 at 8:39am
Originally posted by spenser

we don't like each other, we like like each other Big smile

I'm not surprised to hear this since he's Canadian and Spenser is looking to renounce his citizenship.  Is same-sex marriage a path to Canadian-ity ???

-b
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  Quote Angry Midget Yo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/18/2013 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by jhoang6

and you guys bump head secretly.
that's a little distrubing, even for the interwebz.. cuz i know the guy!

If you know him then you shouldn't really be surprised right?  LOL
Sessions sucks hairy monkey balls, the end.
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  Quote sideways99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/18/2013 at 1:03pm
Funny how this thread has gone from stiff bindings to still Canadians.
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/18/2013 at 2:32pm
Still Canadians?
I don't understand.
 
I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.. but if he were to ask me to bump heads oh man.. i dunno
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/18/2013 at 6:32pm
wait... did spenser and i just become a online couple?
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/18/2013 at 6:33pm
and yeah... what is still candaian?
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/18/2013 at 7:08pm
Originally posted by jihyungchun

and yeah... what is still candaian?

well.. it's exactly the same as still canadian, but without the D : )
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/18/2013 at 7:31pm
lol, the D comes later?
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  Quote spenser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/18/2013 at 7:42pm
hahah this thread is working out wonderfully.
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/18/2013 at 9:32pm
Originally posted by spenser

hahah this thread is working out wonderfully.


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  Quote djmaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2013 at 11:12am
Originally posted by jihyungchun

Originally posted by spenser

hahah this thread is working out wonderfully.



Except for me
2012 Vapor 162W - 2010 CO2 EST - 2010 Hail
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  Quote Lux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2013 at 5:20pm
I love you spenser with all my heart bbygrl. 
You're my sunshine after the rain 
You're the cure against my fear and my pain

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  Quote sideways99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2013 at 6:46pm
Originally posted by jhoang6

Still Canadians?
I don't understand.
 
I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.. but if he were to ask me to bump heads oh man.. i dunno

Sorry, I meant the conversation has gone from stiff bindings to stiff Canadians.

Lux and spenser are going to hook up in British Columbia.
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  Quote jhoang6 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2013 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by djmaya

Originally posted by jihyungchun

Originally posted by spenser

hahah this thread is working out wonderfully.



Except for me
LOL sounds like it, i think those two bindings are out of the price range for many riders. but good luck with the info gathering.
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  Quote jihyungchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2013 at 11:42pm
Yo op, if you have rei near you, you could buy it from them and return it if you don't like them. It's kinda the stingy way of doing it BUT their website tells you that you can return it if you don't love it. They also have one year return policy
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